A Message to OWS Protestors: The Case for Capitalism

This week, hot girls talk free market economics!

Now that we have that out of the way, let's move on to the real purpose of this thread. I've been following this movement pretty actively, especially here on ATS, and I want to see if I can contribute something. So, I'm calling on all of the OWS protesters on ATS to take just a little time out of their day and educate others (as well as themselves) on the economic and social problems we face right now.

I stumbled upon some short videos that I thought did a pretty good job explaining the topics in a manner that most people can understand, without the need for a PhD in economics. They use lots of my two good friends: facts and figures. I encourage you to take 20-30 minutes out of your day and have a look at some of these. And don't just take what they're saying for granted; look it up yourselves and try to see how it all fits together.

If anyone can find any videos to compliment these (or ones that better explain the issues), I encourage you to post them here and share them with your fellow protesters who aren't members of the community here.









Remember that Left v. Right isn't going to get us anywhere. Solutions are usually somewhere in the middle, and it's just a divide and conquer tactic.

'free markets not redistribution is the best way'.......pity they didn't follow the best way then isn't it.

Originally posted by christina-66
'free markets not redistribution is the best way'.......pity they didn't follow the best way then isn't it.

(without having watched the videos):

That's the exact problem with govt picking and choosing"winners"and favorites(i.e. "renewables" and specifically "solyndra") when govt diddles in the market it throws the whole system "off".

reply to post by CaptainIraq


Everyone knows hot chicks that are conservative and or free market supporters are just bimbo's hired for their ta-tas .. duh ..

But anyways, I only watched 2 vids, they are very layman but to the point, to give the gist of it. I really don't like mixing "Conservative" and "Fiscal Conservative" because it's a very grey area.. Many Conservatives in the Republican Party for instance don't mind social programs at all .. if it were not for social issues like gay marriage they'd most likely be Democrats. Just as there are many Democrats that don't necessarily like big government either, but are just blue collar workers and don't care about social issues. Where as Fiscal Conservatives like me, who believe in Classical Economics don't care at all about social issues, so Conservative Republicans don't consider us Conservative at all.

reply to post by Rockpuck


Ha, of course! I mean, why else would anyone want to watch them?

I know what you mean, though, about all these political labels...I'd consider myself a conservative by the definition of it, but the neocons would call me a libertarian, and I would call (some of) them imperialists or theocrats, and so on.

I honestly don't like political labels at all though, because it implies you agree 100% with everything that political party stands for. I know people like to feel like they're part of a group, but the whole mentality encourages close-mindedness and discourages real problem solving.

Free market MUST be FREE in order to progress and expand tech/wealth in a democratic society.

But with the power of Freedom, comes a responsibility to others sharing our society, for we do not live by ourselves, or create the infrastructures for freedom to thrive alone.

Similarly with social Freedoms. It is a Power that comes with responsibilities to others sharing our space.

And how else do we ensure that such responsibilities are taken seriously or even what are the exact responsibilities to each other in detail?

The answer lays with the Constitution, and through it, the creation of 3 branches of the gov to Oversea and ensure that we have our Freedom always, but maintaining the necessary Responsibilities to each other, adhering to laws and guidelines set out so that all may peacefully co-exist and evolved further as humans with common grounds to aspire to.

As a society grows, so does its social-political and economic grows, so too must gov oversight grow to ensure our peace and progress is not taken for granted or selfishly misused by the selfish and self-centred amongst us.

There! Simply explained, the case for capitalism, with no need for video or expliotation of womanhood.

There are two words that are missing here and how they tie together.

Responsibility and Common sense.

We've seen where the the two lie seperate.

What is needed is to tie the two together, regardless of feelings.

Rationality will always win the day over emotions,

reply to post by CaptainIraq


A case for Capitalism..

reply to post by purplemer


That's not Capitalism, that's called Usury. Different.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by purplemer

 

That's not Capitalism, that's called Usury. Different.

Would you care to elaborate on the differences then...
I am not a capitlaist nor am I a communist. But I will tell you this there is something wrong with the system we have in place today. It is destructive. How can you have a fair society when the gap between rich and poor continues to grow and the disparity is the greatest seen in history.
How can you have a economy that has to make more every year to survive on a planet of finite resources. This model will lead to the eventual destruction of our planet.
It is common sense so peeps get up from your brainwashed ideas.. Wake up and smell the coffee...!

reply to post by Rockpuck


Well since you never answered I will answer for you and I will make it plane and simple...

CAPITALISM IS USURY...

Are not the high levels of interest by the banks a form or usury.. Or how about the debt on every printed dollar. Or the banks ripping Greece apart and feeding it to the wolves because they are defaulting on their debts...

Get a clue before you tap..

Kind regards

Purp...

reply to post by purplemer


We're trying to have a mature discussion based on facts and evidence, so if you're going to be doing things like answering your own questions and giving no logical basis for your arguments then I ask you to kindly leave. There's no place for that here.

Thanks.

reply to post by purplemer


This is a general overview of the difference between finance capitalism and the more distributist capitalism. Usury was banned during the Catholic Church's rule in Europe for a reason, religions generally abhor usury and usurers generally abhor religions.

www.amerika.org...

Originally posted by CaptainIraq
reply to post by purplemer

 

We're trying to have a mature discussion based on facts and evidence, so if you're going to be doing things like answering your own questions and giving no logical basis for your arguments then I ask you to kindly leave. There's no place for that here.

Thanks.

I can say what ever I like in here aslong as I stick to the terms and conditions. What are you some kind of mini-mod.
You might not like what I have to say have you tried addressing some of my points. No.. So maybe its you that should leave or adleast try and stay on topic...
I dont see much of a mature discussion on your part, You posted up a few videos.. Try thinking for yourself

kind regards

purple...

reply to post by Misoir


My friend. A wolf in sheeps clothing is still a wolf in sheeps clothing it matters not under what terms you define it...
capitalism never flourished in the middle ages because the church had a negative view of usury. This lost potency as the church lost its power..
forum.davidicke.com...

Originally posted by purplemer

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by purplemer

 

That's not Capitalism, that's called Usury. Different.

Would you care to elaborate on the differences then...
I am not a capitlaist nor am I a communist. But I will tell you this there is something wrong with the system we have in place today. It is destructive. How can you have a fair society when the gap between rich and poor continues to grow and the disparity is the greatest seen in history.
How can you have a economy that has to make more every year to survive on a planet of finite resources. This model will lead to the eventual destruction of our planet.
It is common sense so peeps get up from your brainwashed ideas.. Wake up and smell the coffee...!

edit on 31-10-2011 by purplemer because: (no reason given)

Perhaps if you would stop saying rude things like "get up from your brainwashed ideas" people would take you more seriously.

When your tone is so dismissive, you could be saying something I DID agree with, and just because you have rudely called me "brainwashed", I don't want to hear it.

Originally posted by purplemer

Would you care to elaborate on the differences then...
I am not a capitlaist nor am I a communist. But I will tell you this there is something wrong with the system we have in place today. It is destructive. How can you have a fair society when the gap between rich and poor continues to grow and the disparity is the greatest seen in history.
How can you have a economy that has to make more every year to survive on a planet of finite resources. This model will lead to the eventual destruction of our planet.
It is common sense so peeps get up from your brainwashed ideas.. Wake up and smell the coffee...!

edit on 31-10-2011 by purplemer because: (no reason given)

Political doctrines are often created by man. What one man can create, so too can another man destroy. We had seen how Karl Max's vision of Communism being adopted and adapted differently in 2 major different nation, and yet saw how they had twisted it to suit their own megalomania - Mao and Stalin, which eventually destroyed communism.

Democracy may be no better, but at least under that system, no ruler rules forever. When the ruler attempts to corrupt the democratic ideals, he gets booted out - graciously or bloodily. Thus, it is the only system possible at our current stage of human evolution.

There is indeed something wrong with the Capitalist system today, but just like doctrines, it is man that destroy the system, and not the system going self destruct.

A few of those whom benefitted from that system, and reach the pinnacle of its success, attempt to remove the system to prevent others from achieving it.

Simply put - Capitalism operates on the premise that it allows competition to take place in the market. Whoever is the best is the winner who takes it all. As we make more, we improve upon it, discard the inefficient and ineffective, save up resources, to create even better products in order to profit more.

A planet's resource is finate, but for Earth, it will take several millon years to run dry. We mankind had literally scratch the surface of our mineral wealth. 70% of earth is covered under water and uninhabitated, with very much laying resources there, and along with improve tech, to better manage and reproduce food/water resources for 10 times the amount of current earthlings for millions of years to come.

This race began in the 18th century, but today, we see the winners attempting to take it all, to prevent competitors in order to remain at the top and in wealth, by reverting back to monopolies of the pre-18th century modes of biz models, in collusing with the banking class, to rob the middle class of their limited wealth through the casino stock market, encourage reckless spending by nations inorder to turn the citizens into serfs, and controlling govs through the purchase of legislators to protect them, their monopolies and their wealth.

There is an error in the system, and it had been caused by man, and now, it must be corrected, by man, inorder to learn from such mistakes, and progress. Uncorrupted legislators, as well as awakened citizens, must hold those who made the errors accountable, and correct them, close up the wealth gap, such as what OWS is attempting to do now or mankind will be thrown back to the medieval dark ages.

To all the twits and knuckleheads that JUST DONT GET IT ALREADY, the OWS movement is NOT against capitilism. JEEZ!!!!!!!

They are AGAINST the corrupt greedy bastards who are ruining this country by taking advantage of the system. The system has to be FIXED to not allow this injustice to occur any longer where 1% of the bastards with pull can RUIN the average American families LIVES for GENERATIONS because of their GREED which has NO END.

GET IT???!!!

The likes of the thickheaded Rush, Hannity and Beck cult fan-boys, I assume, plays a big part of the thick-headed delusion nonsense going on.

Its also funny how they try to say its about a bunch of lazy 'hippies' when MANY of them are VETERANS who have done WAY MORE THAN YOU BUMS KNOCKING THE MOVEMENT.

reply to post by HangTheTraitors


The problem with the movement is not its intentions; it's the lack of understanding, with the exception of a few who IMO should be taking the lead (even though the movement 'has no leaders', which is a recipe for failure to begin with). You're right in saying that most people in the OWS movement don't intend to oppose capitalism, but because of their skewed view of what capitalism actually is, a lot of what they're saying is textbook socialism: that being more government control and regulation. For example, check out the video Peter Schiff made when he went down to OWS recently (I saw it in another thread here I think); he starts off by asking them if they are for capitalism (naturally most people raised their hands). Then, he goes on to ask them some questions, and the vast majority of their responses are socialist in nature.

I had a friend who was walking down by one of the protests (just going about his business), and a group of four guys spat at/on him just because he was wearing a shirt and tie. Don't try to tell me that all of the OWS-ers are the 'enlightened' revolutionaries that you wish they were. If they were so smart and they all understood the true nature of these problems, then why are they marching on Wall Street instead of the White House?

I created this thread to try to explain what free market capitalism actually is and what the effects of the Federal Government's involvement have been.

reply to post by GeorgiaGirl


I could say the reason I was rude was because I caught Tourettes whilst on holiday and I forgot to take my pills. The truth is some things upset me a bit. Like having a world monetary system based on greed and no one seeming to care one.
But yes ok peeps I am sorry I said rude things....

kx