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Second Scandal In A Week Rocks NYPD

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posted on Oct, 29 2011 @ 02:52 PM
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Sixteen New York Police Department officers pleaded not guilty to charges of widespread fixing of traffic tickets as well as more serious crimes, in the second scandal to hit the force in a week. Five civilians were also netted in the nearly three-year undercover probe that involved the wire tapping of more than 10,000 phone calls and resulted in indictments containing some 1,600 misdemeanor and felony counts.

Although most charges were for relatively minor crimes of tampering with traffic tickets to help friends and relations, the probe bared an ugly side to New York's so-called "Finest" just days after the arrest of officers in an unrelated gun-running scandal. "It's difficult to have to announce for the second time this week that police officers have been arrested for misconduct," Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly said.





Initially the probe began with an undercover operation against a uniformed officer, Jose Ramos, who is accused of using two Bronx barbershops he owns -- both called "Who's First" -- as sales points for "large quantities of marijuana," the District Attorney's office said. An alleged drug dealer managed the barbershops, used Ramos' car and his phone to organize deals, while Ramos himself is accused of transporting what he thought was heroin, as well as attempted robbery.

Three more civilians and an NYPD sergeant were charged in connection to Ramos' alleged activities. It was during that inquiry, however, that investigators say they came across a seemingly endless web of officers using their authority to make traffic tickets and parking tickets go away as favors to friends. "Evidence was uncovered linking a large number of police officers to incidents of 'ticket fixing' or solicitation to 'fix tickets,'" the Bronx district attorney's office said. "Criminal charges have been brought against only those alleged to be the most serious repeat offenders." In addition, the investigation exposed an alleged failure by police to arrest an assault suspect who had a police union connection -- and then an attempt to cover up the alleged crime.


Here we go again, this week. We just saw the gun running charges come out against the NYPD earlier this week.

Now this. Multiple criminal charges, for multiple offenses, from selling drugs to helping tickets "disappear" for friends.

Yet, we still have many on here who blindly support cops, and repeatedly give them the benefit of the doubt. We have member here who completely support what the Oakland PD did, even after the multiple videos have come out highlighting their mistakes.

Bottom line, when you put on the badge, you should be held to a higher level of conduct/responsibility then the average citizen. However, we see abuse running rampant.

news.yahoo.com...
edit on 29-10-2011 by MysticPearl because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 29 2011 @ 03:02 PM
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So ticket fixing is so widespread and commonplace, and par for the course, that they actually couldn't go after all of them. It's unreasonable you can't arrest all of them. Who will do the arresting?

It just goes to show you how widespread the corruption really is.

You have to pay full price $$ on tickets if you don't know anyone.
But if you know somebody, they can take care of it for you!

You scratch my back, I scratch yours.
The epitome of corruption.



posted on Oct, 29 2011 @ 03:09 PM
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Originally posted by muzzleflash
So ticket fixing is so widespread and commonplace, and par for the course, that they actually couldn't go after all of them. It's unreasonable you can't arrest all of them. Who will do the arresting?

It just goes to show you how widespread the corruption really is.

You have to pay full price $$ on tickets if you don't know anyone.
But if you know somebody, they can take care of it for you!

You scratch my back, I scratch yours.
The epitome of corruption.

Yup.

Just ridiculous how the protesters are "blamed" and "at fault", and "get what they deserve" for simply breaking a park curfew.

Yet, a blind eye is turned towards the police when they repeatedly abuse their power.

So, if tear gas, rubber bullets and flash grenades are a reasonable response for breaking curfew, what is the reasonable response for the rampant corruption, which is in essence breaking the trust of tax payers who pay the salaries of these guys?

Just wondering, for those who backed the police raids and thought the response was warranted. What is the warranted response to this?
edit on 29-10-2011 by MysticPearl because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 29 2011 @ 03:19 PM
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The best part about this was the NYPD protesting outside the courthouse.






Funny I don't see a lot of pepper spraying going on.
edit on 29-10-2011 by jlv70 because: grammar

edit on 29-10-2011 by jlv70 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 29 2011 @ 03:21 PM
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Police officers have a position of power and as we all now, power corrupts.

It's sad to see and hear of such things, but not surprising.


We totally need law enforcement, but as with most civil departments, it needs reform and the bad apples removing. The same thing is happening in the U.K and the Metropolitan commisioner admitted that this was the case, but there was very little he could do about it. If this is the kind of message coming down from the top, then how is it going to be achieved?



posted on Oct, 29 2011 @ 03:36 PM
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its actually quite simple.HANG THEM!!!



posted on Oct, 29 2011 @ 05:34 PM
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hmmmmmmm,i see alot of just following orders,so if i did a crime following some one elses orders,am i clear of the crime?being a adult and knowing well my accions.also i have to say,that sign says alot of the higher ranks. in a way its breaking code of silence,perhaps they should be down at the ows instead,and show some oficial or civil desobedience.



posted on Oct, 29 2011 @ 05:40 PM
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reply to post by jlv70
 


This "just following orders" nonsense has got to be confronted and hard. Is the public supposed to believe that if these police officers were ordered into suicide missions they would accept them? If these police officers were ordered to kill women and children without question, would they? If these police officers were ordered to exterminate entire groups of people because those people are subhuman, would they follow those orders? Just where do these New York Lemmings draw the line?



posted on Oct, 29 2011 @ 06:04 PM
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Originally posted by MysticPearl
Here we go again, this week. We just saw the gun running charges come out against the NYPD earlier this week.

Runners for the 100 meter rush to judgment, take your marks......


Originally posted by MysticPearl
Now this. Multiple criminal charges, for multiple offenses, from selling drugs to helping tickets "disappear" for friends.

Get set......


Originally posted by MysticPearl
Yet, we still have many on here who blindly support cops, and repeatedly give them the benefit of the doubt. We have member here who completely support what the Oakland PD did, even after the multiple videos have come out highlighting their mistakes.

Not blindly.. But if we are steroytyping then an argument could be made against those who blindly blame all cops for all eveils, whther or not they were invovled.

Whats better is how you are assuming without really doing any research on the matter. If you did you would see that Oakland PD doesnt use rubber bullets. You would also have found out that there were other outside law enforcement agencies present to assist Oakland POD, and those departments do in fact use Rubber Bullets.

But hey - why wait for the investigation to start when you can just charge try and convict them based on faulty and incomplete information coupled with an obvious bias against law enforcement.



Originally posted by MysticPearl
Bottom line, when you put on the badge, you should be held to a higher level of conduct/responsibility then the average citizen. However, we see abuse running rampant.

And we all see ignorance running rampant by people who dont bother to educate themselves on how the law works, how their rights work, let alone the fact that law enforcement is covered by the exact same constitutional rights that you and every other citizen has.

I have no issues with people holding the Police to a higher standard. Whats crap though is how you and others dont bother to hold the protestors to any standard. Throwing rocks, beer bottles, paint etc at officers is justified how? Or is it the 2 wrongs make a right?

So, now that we got that out of the way, lets see where the investigation goes. On the off chance you failed to research that its being conducted by an outside agency - The Prosecuting Attoryns office is heading up that investigation.

If you dont agree let me know, and I can come back and post the starting date and time so you can get the 100 meter rush to judgment off to a start.

As far as the NYPD goes the simple fact that it made the news, along with the other scandal, goes to show that we are all human, and that the justice system still works. Those who think our Judicial system is perfect really should rethink that position.
edit on 29-10-2011 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 29 2011 @ 06:36 PM
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Hundreds of police union members turned up outside court today to support 16 New York policemen charged with abusing their authority by helping family and friends avoid paying traffic tickets. The 13 officers, two sergeants, one lieutenant and five others were arraigned in a Bronx court on Friday after handing themselves in last night following a mammoth city investigation. But union members made their voice heard by clogging the street near the courthouse, filling the hallways near the arraignment room and applauding in court after the officers left.



Back on subject:
Is it illegal to fix tickets in NY?

If you fix a ticket in NY are you guilty of a crime?

If you are an officer in NY and you witness a crime do you have a duty to take actions? Or as an officer, do you get to pick and choose which crimes, and which people you will or will not arrest?

If you are an officer and did not arrest anyone that you knew was fixing tickets are you guilt of a crime?

Applying the same standards to the police that where protesting in NY, how many where arrested?


edit on 29-10-2011 by Dav1d because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 29 2011 @ 08:33 PM
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Originally posted by Dav1d
Back on subject:
Is it illegal to fix tickets in NY?

Depends on State Law as well as departmental policy. The ability to issue a citation is at officers discretion. If the person who received the citation challenges it in court, the officer who issued it would be issue a subpoena. The city I am in it is officer discretion, which means if I issue a citation, I am free to yank it. If it was already submitted we are allowed to talk to the PA to have it dropped. Its based on totality of circumstances and not 20/20 hindsight though.

The City next to mine, which is larger, has a city rule that applies to the Police that does not give the issuing officer the ability to remove a ticket on their own. They must speak with a supervisor to get permission and a short report is done since it was an actionable offense. Im not sure how New York law works, but thought id offer up some examples anyways.



Originally posted by Dav1d
If you fix a ticket in NY are you guilty of a crime?

Depends on State Law / City Ordinances / Departmental Policy



Originally posted by Dav1d
If you are an officer in NY and you witness a crime do you have a duty to take actions? Or as an officer, do you get to pick and choose which crimes, and which people you will or will not arrest?

The purpose of Law Enforcement is to protect society, not the individual. The US Supreme Court has ruled on several cases over the years that state an Officer has no duty to act. Before people go bonkers over that discretion is the better part of valor. If you are dispatched to a fight between 2 people, and on arrival there are 200 people, you would not be entering that area until more officers arrived. As mush as people like to fight each other, nothing brings to enemies together faster than an officer showing up.

In my state Law Enforcement is required to act on 2 laws and 1 administrative issue. If we stop a person and they dont have proof of insurance, the law states the officer must issue a citation (If that person has insurance they just present it to the PA and the ticket is dismissed). The other is any type of elder / child abuse since we are mandatory reporters. Failure to report to DFS could result in criminal charges against the officer.

The administrative is a warrant arrest. Technically if we make contact with an individual in a situation that requires us to run their name through the system, and they come back with a warrant, we must take them into custody. However, since its adminstrative we can opt to not confirm the warrant. We do a short report to justify the reason for not making the arrest.

Aside from that almost all states allow officer discretion since they are the ones working the call. They just have to be able to articulate the reason for not doing in.



Originally posted by Dav1d
If you are an officer and did not arrest anyone that you knew was fixing tickets are you guilt of a crime?

It depends... Any officer can technically "fix" a ticket. However, if an officer"fixes" tickets in exchange for a favor / money what have you, its illegal. In terms of arresting a fellow officer it becomes a bit problematic because of the laws that affect only law enforcement.

Civlians and Law Enforcement are both covered by the 5th amendment. However, since police departments are quasi military with an established chain of command, we have whats called Garrity Rights. We have a right to invoke the 5th, however we can be ordered to answer questions by a superior. If we are under investigation, and we invoke the 5th and we are ordered to answer questions, anything stated cannot be used in court. However, the info can be used in an IA investigation and used against the officer. If an officer refuses to answer the question after a direct order, that can be used against us as well, and in almost all the cases im familiar with, it usually ended the officers career.

Because of the bubble we operate in, investigations into officer actions must be handeled by a unit with no direct operational relations (IE if you work in patrol, patrol officers wont investigate any wrong doing, IA will). Anytime law enforcement is placed in a position to investigate itself, an outside agency (usually state police / highway patrol) are assigned as lead, with the department running a paralell investigation.



Originally posted by Dav1d
Applying the same standards to the police that where protesting in NY, how many where arrested?

Not sure what you are asking. Are you asking about police actions?

Also, keep in mind it varies from state to state. The info I gave may not be the same as New York.

Hope this helps answer some of your questions.
edit on 29-10-2011 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 29 2011 @ 08:48 PM
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reply to post by jlv70
 


RLMFAO!!!

"it's been going on since the days of the Egyptians"
"just following orders"

that's their excuse.

truly sickening



posted on Oct, 29 2011 @ 09:57 PM
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reply to post by MysticPearl
 


I got an idea. Well let em off if NY wipes the slate for all tickets received this year. How's that sound?
I mean why not? Cops are going to get off anyway...



posted on Oct, 29 2011 @ 10:13 PM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 


mood: depressed??? man thats not good. I really wish you didn't feel that way.. It must be an enormous weight to carry. With so many having ill feelings towards your uniform (forgetting there is a human being within it), how those who wear it have desacrated what was once an honorable and noble profession. It's like raising a sweet innocent daughter, doing everything right as a parent, giving every advantage you could, sacrificing much,...and then to find out that little girl is now turning tricks for a $5 rock, stealing from grandma, and has a pimp/boyfriend beating her up all the time..(how i felt about the uniform I wore as it was the "daughter" in my scenario

there is a reason Ive never discussed why I no longer am in L.E., i was at a time. Saw WAAAYYY too much corruption, treachery, and slimy deals...Maybe, I shoulda hung in there but the toll it took on my attitude. There were times I was tempted to "see grey" and eliminate the piles of garbage who commanded me.

Keep your integrity, be a beacon of light, and KNOW THIS....when you look back, you will have MORE pride in yourself knowing that not only did you walk uphill, you did it through a pile of muck and STILL persevered with dignity and honor..



posted on Oct, 29 2011 @ 10:33 PM
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Originally posted by Xcathdra



Originally posted by Dav1d
Applying the same standards to the police that where protesting in NY, how many where arrested?

Not sure what you are asking. Are you asking about police actions?

Also, keep in mind it varies from state to state. The info I gave may not be the same as New York.

Hope this helps answer some of your questions.
edit on 29-10-2011 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)


First thank you for taking the time to answer my questions.


The external link stated ". But union members made their voice heard by clogging the street near the courthouse, filling the hallways near the arraignment room and applauding in court after the officers left." it seems to me that in the last weeks these actions "clogging streets" was used to justify why OWS protesters where arrested?

I'm curious do you have a comment on the "We where just following orders"?

Personally I have no issue, with an office not being required to *act* if you arrive on scene, and there are more people beating up one person than you have rounds in your weapon.

I do have an issue, where there are 2 or more officers apparanly standing around watching one guy stab another in the neck. I'm thinking of a clip I saw not long ago, where one officer did pull the guy stabbing the other one in the neck, off of him.

But again thank you for your input.



posted on Oct, 29 2011 @ 10:36 PM
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reply to post by rebeldog
 


Thank you!

I'm sorry for your pain



posted on Oct, 29 2011 @ 10:41 PM
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reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 


There is a big difference between fixing a ticket and shooting someone.



posted on Oct, 29 2011 @ 10:43 PM
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there are 35,000 police officers in NYC, 40,000 if you count auxilary, so don't paint them all with a bad brush because of 16 people.



posted on Oct, 29 2011 @ 10:45 PM
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Originally posted by nixie_nox
reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 


There is a big difference between fixing a ticket and shooting someone.


Context is everything, and if you had a valid point, methinks you would not have ignored that context. Police are claiming they followed orders as a defense. This is a defense that didn't work for Nazi thugs at Nuremberg and it will not, it cannot work for our own.

Further, Kelly Thomas was not shot by police, but brutally and viciously beaten by six of them.


edit on 29-10-2011 by Jean Paul Zodeaux because: Posted in the wrong thread. Oops.



posted on Oct, 29 2011 @ 10:51 PM
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reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 


As if you had a valid point....

Easy to fix something that occurs thousands of times a day, if they even really knew what they were doing was wrong.

Shooting someone requires a lot more paperwork and is a lot more visible.

That is like saying someone who gets parking tickets is capable of becoming a murderer.




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