Global tax/government!? I am done with Occupy...

Oh my God yet another disinformation thread. they are coming thick and fast now. OWS is clearly hitting some raw nerves,....... so they MUSt be doing something right. Thank you OP and all supporting respondants you could not have provide a better boost to OWS if you had tried.

Whoa :
deja vu

"OWS" has no outside direction/corruption /conscription or agenda(?):
Yeah whatever "Karl"...


"

“"Today Americans would be outraged if U.N. troops entered Los Angeles to restore order; tomorrow they will be grateful! This is especially true if they were told there was an outside threat from beyond whether real or promulgated, that threatened our very existence. It is then that all peoples of the world will pledge with world leaders to deliver them from this evil. The one thing every man fears is the unknown. When presented with this scenario, individual rights will be willingly relinquished for the guarantee of their well being granted to them by their world government."

- Henry Kissinger in an address to the Bilderberger meeting at Evian, France, May 21, 1992.

thinkexist.com...


Marx's "useful idiots": if there are no laws(anarchy) the bankers won't be prosecuted;
If they get to make ALL the global laws the bankers won't be prosecuted..

I hope you "lib"s are happy adding the final piece to set the "global tyranny machine" into motion.
Now go watch Spielbergs "thx-1138" or"1984" or "brazil" and see what you have wrought.

"Winston: The future is a boot stomping on a human face..." (Orwells "1984")

Originally posted by BadNinja68
I repeat because you obviously did not or could not read and comprehend my post:
No one said "global government" except you.

They said and I quite from your own posts " Global Democracy". These are two separate terms with different meanings.

No, the quote was 'A global democracy'. 'A' means singular, as in one. ''A' global tax', singular.

Im sorry, but if you cannot comprehend the words you are quoting and posting I really don't know how to have an intelligent conversation with you.

I think my ability to comprehend the word 'A' is not the problem.

I also find it ironic that you criticise my ability to read and yet opine for 'representative democracy' were we 'elect representatives of the will of the people'. Uh, you mean sorta like the representative republic we already have? Maybe we just need to vote for better people.

Originally posted by malcr
Oh my God yet another disinformation thread. they are coming thick and fast now.

How are directly attributed and sourced quotes 'disinformation'? This is a stated agenda, so much so that the New York Assmebly will vote on it. Maybe you need to clue them in that it is just 'disinformation'.

OWS is clearly hitting some raw nerves,....... so they MUSt be doing something right. Thank you OP and all supporting respondants you could not have provide a better boost to OWS if you had tried.

Apparently you glossed over the portion of my post were I mentioned that some of the points Occupy Wall Street were advocating I agreed with completely. This is obviously not one of them. We do not need either more tax or more government.

Originally posted by BadNinja68

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
From the Los Angles Occupy protests:

United for Global Democracy. On October 15, 2011, united in our diversity, united for global change, we demand global democracy, global governance by the people for the people, inspired by our sisters and brothers in Tunisia, Egypt, Libya, Syria, Bahrain, Palestine-Israel, Spain, and Greece, we too call for a regime change, a global regime change, today we demand replacing the G8 with the whole of humanity, the G7,000,000,000. source

This sentiment is parroted on countless other sites and blogs associated with the movement.

A global tax/governement? Really? This is the solution? More government? More tax?

edit on 29-10-2011 by AugustusMasonicus because: networkdude has no beer.

No one said Global Government except you.

the term used was "Global Democracy".. followed by the words "by the people".

That means no government rule, but allowing us to rule ourselves.
a TRUE Democracy is a great and powerful thing.
Putting the power litteraly back into your own hands.

In a Democracy, you do not elect LEADERS.. you elect REPRESENTATIVES OF THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE.

when you stop calling them leaders and understand that they are not decision makers.. we are.

They are not " DECIDERS".. it's their elected positions that require them to follow OUR will, whether they agree or not.

If you expect a "leader" to take care of you, you are already screwed.

Semantics aside, do you really not understand what's happening around you?

hey "Einstein":
A pure democracy equates to "mob rule"
It's why the founders abhor'd it and we don't have one.!
51% can vote to take whatever they want from the 49%. Pure Democracy sucks.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
As with any political movement I found points I both agreed and disagreed with regarding the Occupy Wall Street initiative. I am strongly against any type of corporate bailout or wellfare. If you can not run your bank/business/corporation properly than the hard-working citizens should not be shouldered with your poor decision making and allow you to go out and make the same mistakes again. However, I did not agree with the abolishment of capitlism or a move towards socialism/communism that some were advoacting. With that being said it appears that Adbusters, considered the driving force behind the Occupy movement, is calling for a global tax and a corresponding global government to administer said tax:

On October 29, on the eve of the G20 Leaders Summit in France, let's the people of the world rise up and demand that our G20 leaders immediately impose a 1% #ROBINHOOD tax on all financial transactions and currency trades. Let's send them a clear message: We want you to slow down some of that $1.3-trillion easy money that's sloshing around the global casino each day – enough cash to fund every social program and environmental initiative in the world. adbusters.org

From the Los Angles Occupy protests:

United for Global Democracy. On October 15, 2011, united in our diversity, united for global change, we demand global democracy, global governance by the people for the people, inspired by our sisters and brothers in Tunisia, Egypt, Libya, Syria, Bahrain, Palestine-Israel, Spain, and Greece, we too call for a regime change, a global regime change, today we demand replacing the G8 with the whole of humanity, the G7,000,000,000. source

This sentiment is parroted on countless other sites and blogs associated with the movement.

A global tax/governement? Really? This is the solution? More government? More tax? Let me tell you where that leads.....more corruption and the middle class getting squeezed further. Corporations do not pay tax in esscence, any tax we try to place on them they send right back to the end user; you and me. I am tired of seeing my money (just as I am sure you feel about yours) going to bail out idiots who do not deserve it. Allowing a global government to oversee such a tax will only magnify the problem. I really never thought I would see the day were the average citizen would call out for a global government.

edit on 29-10-2011 by AugustusMasonicus because: networkdude has no beer.

You cant take this sentiment and attach it to the 99%. I am part of the 99% and I think those ideas are crap. But to label the whole movement with this nonsense is exactly what TPTB want. As I have said before this movement is going to have a lot of Ideas and people trying to manipulate its message. I think this is a great example.

You cant lose sight of the end goal ~ Free the People

Originally posted by princeguy

You cant take this sentiment and attach it to the 99%. I am part of the 99% and I think those ideas are crap. But to label the whole movement with this nonsense is exactly what TPTB want. As I have said before this movement is going to have a lot of Ideas and people trying to manipulate its message. I think this is a great example.

You cant lose sight of the end goal ~ Free the People

"free the people"(?)

These people?
They don't want anything resembling "freedom":

Originally posted by princeguy
But to label the whole movement with this nonsense is exactly what TPTB want. As I have said before this movement is going to have a lot of Ideas and people trying to manipulate its message.

But Adbusters is the acknowledged founder of the movement so there is not much that is being manipulated.

Corporate wellfare and crony capitalism: no. Global tax/governance: no as well. This movement, like any movement, has pros and cons. The trade off is always whether the pros outwheigh the cons. More tax and government is not a viable solution.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


That's a rather semantic argument you have there, isn't it?

The manifesto talks about global democracy, and you confuse that with the NWO...

Really?

That's a rather weak position if you ask me... you are grasping at straws...

Is that a masonic seal in your Avatar Picture?

or has it been like that to support there NWO MISSIONS?

Originally posted by ErtaiNaGia
That's a rather semantic argument you have there, isn't it?

The manifesto talks about global democracy, and you confuse that with the NWO...

Firstly, I do not believe in the New World Order, so I am not confusing anything with something else. Secondly, when people publically advocate for a global tax and governance I tend to take them at face value, meaning if they say that is what they want than that probably is what they want. I did not invent the comments and links, these are all attributable.

Really?

That's a rather weak position if you ask me... you are grasping at straws...

This is not one or two random people. The position advocated by Adbusters is coming up for a vote in the New York Assembly. Whether you think it is weak or not is not the issue. People in government think that it is worth considering.

Is that a masonic seal in your Avatar Picture?

Yes.

What we need is the opposite of 'global government'.

We need 'global independence and freedom from the tyranny of government'.

Let's say I went to protest tomorrow and I said that : would anyone notice or would the media present my poster-board?

I seriously doubt it.

TPTB are spreading mass propaganda out to make it appear people actually want greater government and greater tyranny. So you or I protesting with a good message would be avoided entirely or censored in some way, I would expect.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


I view taxation without representation as direct theft coerced through threats of violence.

A global tax would essentially be global tyranny.

Of course, there is already global tyranny, because there are taxes just about everywhere in the globe already.
That's beside the point though, because consolidating tyranny into one focal point would only increase the intensity of it.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

No, the quote was 'A global democracy'. 'A' means singular, as in one. ''A' global tax', singular.

From the OP:
United for Global Democracy. On October 15, 2011, united in our diversity, united for global change, we demand global democracy, global governance by the people for the people, inspired by our sisters and brothers in Tunisia, Egypt, Libya, Syria, Bahrain, Palestine-Israel, Spain, and Greece, we too call for a regime change, a global regime change, today we demand replacing the G8 with the whole of humanity, the G7,000,000,000.

www.adbusters.org...

I'm afraid that you are wrong dude.

You are completely misinterpreting what is being said in your own article...They aren't calling for any type of globalization, or one-world anything. I think you should go back and read it again. And the people who agreed with out even reading the freakin' article are simply ignorant.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

A global tax/governement? Really? This is the solution? More government? More tax? Let me tell you where that leads.....more corruption and the middle class getting squeezed further

You are totally misinterpreting this "global tax". It's clearly designed to "tax the super rich and give to the poor". And you claim it's a totalitarian scheme to further rob the middle class? Pfffttt...learn to read.




reply to post by Schkeptick

I would be willing to bet that 99% of the people out there protesting have NO knowledge of basic economics whatsoever.

So now people require a degree in economics if they want to protest? Get real sir...


reply to post by TheRedneck

The more I watch the OWS protests,the more I am convinced the vast, vast majority of the protestors have no concept of business, democracy, economics, or even simple fairness.

So now they need a degree in business, democracy and also economics? Absurd, anyone from any walk of life has the right to protest. They don't necessarily need to know the exact mechanism of a problem. All they need is the ability to recognize the problem and the will to fix it.

Please no one get me wrong on this. I support a protest; I am just not sure I can support this protest. I know people are hurting badly. I have watched for decades as we have spiraled down into this mass of selfishness and immorality we call society, and for the first couple I actually called for a revolution before it was too late. Now, unfortunately, I believe it is too late.

So it's too late? Oh...ok, well we better just give up now then. I guess after all this time, we finally got mad enough to stand up and say enough is enough...but you're right, it's too late, time to pack it up and go home guys.


reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by malcr
Oh my God yet another disinformation thread. they are coming thick and fast now.

How are directly attributed and sourced quotes 'disinformation'?

Because the OP is clearly twisting and slanting the ideas presented in the source article.

reply to post by ColCurious

Well, the right to education already is a Human Right according to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights...

All that means is this Universal Declaration of Human Rights was written by someone who had no idea what constitutes a 'right'. Sure, you are guaranteed a free education by your government, but why are you allowing your government to determine what is and is not a basic human right? By doing so, you allow that same government to at any time decide it is no longer a basic human right to have free education, or that it is no longer a basic human right to speak for that matter.

For the record, I think it is absolutely fantastic that you have free education; I would love to see it implemented here. All I am pointing out is the difference between an entitlement and a right. A right does not require another to provide something to you; an entitlement is a gift from society to you based on what your government wants to spend on you.

Rights are forever. Entitlements are until no one wants to (or can) pay for them anymore.

TheRedneck

reply to post by ChaoticOrder

So now they need a degree in business, democracy and also economics? Absurd, anyone from any walk of life has the right to protest. They don't necessarily need to know the exact mechanism of a problem. All they need is the ability to recognize the problem and the will to fix it.

Where did I say anyone needed a degree to protest? What I said was that the vast majority of the protesters have no idea how economics or business works. Without understanding the problem, there can be no workable solution.

It's like someone who never held a wrench or studied math trying to design a new car. It'll never run, will probably be overpriced and under-designed, and even if it does start, the chances of it running for long enough to have a test drive are almost nil.

The first step in solving any problem is to understand the problem.

I guess after all this time, we finally got mad enough to stand up and say enough is enough...but you're right, it's too late, time to pack it up and go home guys.

No, don't go home. Stay. Stand up for yourselves. But understand this: you are not the first generation to experience these problems. While you have been working up the nerve to stand up for yourselves, some of us have been screaming the message in vain for a very long time. You're late to the party, and fighting a much harder battle than you could have fought a decade ago.

I guess it's hard to really get riled up when life is good, even when it's obvious a fall is coming.

And understand one more thing: I will be sitting this one out. I will not protest nor will I try to stop the protests. I would have stood with you before, but you took too long. Now the enemies are too entrenched. Now I am on my side instead of yours.

TheRedneck

reply to post by TheRedneck

Where did I say anyone needed a degree to protest? What I said was that the vast majority of the protesters have no idea how economics or business works. Without understanding the problem, there can be no workable solution.

The majority may not understand the exact nature of the problem, but many people do understand the problem in great depth, and they've been predicting these uprisings for a very long time (you are probably one of them). The majority of people don't understand how a computer works, yet they can still use a computer. My point is, a protest is no less valid just because the protestors don't understand the exact mechanism of the problem. People have protested throughout the ages, and the masses were probably much dumber than most people these days, yet they all stood together to fight for a common cause, because they all understood one thing; the problem can't simply be ignored.

It's like someone who never held a wrench or studied math trying to design a new car. It'll never run, will probably be overpriced and under-designed, and even if it does start, the chances of it running for long enough to have a test drive are almost nil.

Do you honestly think the hundreds of thousands of people who are protesting around the world or across the U.S. are going have a part in solving the problem? Of course not, the problem solving is left up to those people I just spoke of, those who can understand it. This is how it has always worked. Nothing gets done when no one seems to care. Protesting is a way for the masses to express their concern, and demand change. It's a tool for initiating and paving the way for change.

No, don't go home. Stay. Stand up for yourselves. But understand this: you are not the first generation to experience these problems. While you have been working up the nerve to stand up for yourselves, some of us have been screaming the message in vain for a very long time. You're late to the party, and fighting a much harder battle than you could have fought a decade ago.

You need to understand that the masses take longer to catch on and wake up. I myself don't live in an area where any protests are happening, so I am not late to anything; I wont be physically protesting. I have been saying the same thing for years now too. But I knew people would eventually start to wake up, and now they are. The timing is perfect. Perhaps even fate. It looks like the pinnacle of the global uprising will converge with timeline-zero and the Mayan long count late 2012.