Atheism only a recent conspiracy

reply to post by MrXYZ


Well i'm not watching your video for however many minutes.

I'[m kidding X, I highly respect Tyson, but I should ask at this point, that we get back on topic ?

Originally posted by randyvs
Stalins atheist regime alone murdered 20 million people. What does that say for their rights? Don't cry that this is an attack now . In deflection . )

edit on 27-10-2011 by randyvs because: (no reason given)

There are times when I feel that all these ideas, like people thinking evolution means monkey's birthing humans, or that Stalin and Pol Pot killed people because they were athiests(While Hitler's being catholic was unrelated), is a big joke. I never expect to run into people believing these things, but it turns out I do.

How can you call Stalin's regime Atheist, and not call Hitler's Christian, or even Vegetarian? And, if bad people acting within a religion represents that religion as a whole, how does the centuries of bloodshed and torture caused by Christianity represent it?

reply to post by xxsomexpersonxx


People who believe in God don't try to commit genocide. No matter what they claim.

Back on topic please.

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by xxsomexpersonxx

 

People who believe in God don't try to commit genocide.

No matter what they claim.

People who don't believe in God don't try to commit genocide. Duh. If they do, they are secretly thiests.

~
I could give countless examples, and I suppose you could claim they were lying. That is unreasonable. Besides a few in recent years, all the major killers have believed in a god.

Hell, even the mindsets of some of the bible writers themselves were genocidal.

1 Samuel 15:3
Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.'"

Commit Genocide, even kill babies and innocent animals. The Biblical God's Commands. If this story were assumed true, Saul would be one example that I'd find it very hard for you to deny.

But, Saul didn't kill them all, I suppose.

1 Samuel 15:9 But Saul and the army spared Agag and the best of the sheep and cattle, the fat calves and lambs--everything that was good. These they were unwilling to destroy completely, but everything that was despised and weak they totally destroyed.

Kill the weak, preserve the strong. Clearly, being in touch with God gave such great virtues.

~
Realistically though, many more examples from reality can be played out, mostly from the first few centuries of this Era. Even modern day examples from the middle east could be shared. However, I'd image Saul would be one of the hardest to deny.

Originally posted by randyvs
Back on topic please.

edit on 27-10-2011 by randyvs because: (no reason given)

You're the OP, you're the boss. However, if you're making false claims, they'll be corrected. And more importantly, it is on topic to say that atheism isn't the source of any genocides, because you're using that in the angle of trying to say it's a conspiracy(though I've still yet to see how the word conspiracy applies).

Unless, you;re saying any reasoning you don't like is off topic. In which case, this isn't the site for it. This is a site for discussion, not one sided bashing on others who think differently.

reply to post by randyvs

Adam Jones explains, in his book Genocide: A Comprehensive Introduction, that people throughout history have always had the ability to see other groups as alien; he quotes Chalk and Jonassohn: "Historically and anthropologically peoples have always had a name for themselves. In a great many cases, that name meant 'the people' to set the owners of that name off against all other people who were considered of lesser quality in some way. If the differences between the people and some other society were particularly large in terms of religion, language, manners, customs, and so on, then such others were seen as less than fully human: pagans, savages, or even animals. (Chalk and Jonassohn, The History and Sociology of Genocide, p. 28.)"[8]

Witch hunts, The Crusades, Native Americans, are a couple that I can think of that were directly influenced by Christianity. And hey, I'm not focusing on Christianity. It goes way back. People have been wiping each other out over which invisible guy in the sky they believe in, for ages.

"People that commit genocide don't believe in god" ha. I guess that makes them all atheists, huh? Lol, I think I'm done getting trolled for today.

reply to post by jessejamesxx



Watch the video jj.

The Earliest belief systems were Animistic which are not Theist beliefs.

For me the belief in an Anthropomorphized deity (theism) is Naive.
This is not to say that there is not supreme consciousness infusing the universe.

Originally posted by Tea4One
Atheism wasn't even in mass thought during the reformation. Even the most intellectual believed in a deity, atheism is only really a new thought. (New history wise). Before the reformation though atheists would have been burned for being heretics, tough life huh?

Atheists if they existed before the Reformation would not be burned as "heretics". A heretic is someone who claims to be a Christian yet teaches things contrary to scripture.

Originally posted by RedParrotHead
reply to post by Tea4One

 

I disagree - even the most intellectual said that believed in a deity...if they actually didn't they were smart enough to keep it to themselves. Anyone who truly believes in magical creatures can't be all that bright no matter when they happened to live.

Are you really going to claim that these people weren't very bright?

reply to post by NOTurTypical


What was seen as heretics during those times were those who disagreed with the central religious authority. For example the catholic church had sighted protestants as heretics due to their criticisms of the church. So if you were an atheist (which was seemingly unlikely) you would have been seen as against the church. Later on though, in England at least, they would have been hanged under the blasphemy laws.

Originally posted by Tea4One
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

What was seen as heretics during those times were those who disagreed with the central religious authority. For example the catholic church had sighted protestants as heretics due to their criticisms of the church. So if you were an atheist (which was seemingly unlikely) you would have been seen as against the church. Later on though, in England at least, they would have been hanged under the blasphemy laws.

That's absolutely false. A heretic is someone who claims to be a Christian yet teaches contrary to the Word of God. By default an Atheist isn't a "heretic". Ireanaus was the first to use the term "heretic".

They are just unbelievers, nothing more.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


I didn't say they were heretics. Im saying they would have been seen and treated likes heretics at the time, especially by the catholic church. You think the Spanish inquisition didn't end up at the door of atheists?

Originally posted by Tea4One
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

I didn't say they were heretics. Im saying they would have been seen and treated likes heretics at the time, especially by the catholic church. You think the Spanish inquisition didn't end up at the door of atheists?

Can you show that there existed Atheists at the time of the Spanish Inquisition? That's the entire point of this thread. I know they weren't heretics, but I'm not aware the Catholic church persecuted people who were not Christians. If you can show me they have I'll certainly give that point to you.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


As I said earlier in the thread there isn't enough proof of many atheists existing. Even though for example Thomas Hobbes could have been accused of being one.

www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk...

In the 15th century there was considerable hostility towards the Jews throughout Europe.

During the 16th century the Spanish Inquisition began to target Protestants.

Even though they didn't directly persecute them they did agree, allow and helped it some ways. Atheists as I was saying, would have been among the people targeted like the protestants as it may have had a different meaning in the early modern period than it does now.

reply to post by Tea4One


I hear what you're saying, but isn't that just colorful conjectures? Atheists, if they existed, would not have been a threat at all to the Roman Catholic church.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Tea4One

 

I hear what you're saying, but isn't that just colorful conjectures? Atheists, if they existed, would not have been a threat at all to the Roman Catholic church.

It's mere speculation of course. It's hardly concrete. Maybe not, but they may have seen it as religious duty to deal with them. As I said though, mere speculation.

Anywho, sleep. Nice debating with you. Im glad I joined this site... bye.

Originally posted by Tea4One

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Tea4One

 

I hear what you're saying, but isn't that just colorful conjectures? Atheists, if they existed, would not have been a threat at all to the Roman Catholic church.

It's mere speculation of course. It's hardly concrete. Maybe not, but they may have seen it as religious duty to deal with them. As I said though, mere speculation.

Anywho, sleep. Nice debating with you. Im glad I joined this site... bye.

Take care good Sir, thanks for the discourse.

Originally posted by FOXMULDER147
How can not believing in something be a 'conspiracy'...?

Your kidding right?

reply to post by jessejamesxx

Although Christianity (among many other religions) has in fact been used in the way you describe, anyone who reads The New Testament will see that this is not it's intent. It's always people in power who change the message to fit their agenda, and then enforce it. They have their reward.

The Old Testament is different of course; don't confuse the two. Christians are not under that covenant, only Jews. Even Jesus taught against Moses and The Ten Commandments. I'm paraphrasing for convenience but Jesus "said" "You have heard of old Thou shalt not steal. But I say, Do not horde riches unto thyself and tempt a man to steal." The true Christian message is about loving others as oneself, and has no judgmental or controlling features in it. Even the thief who was crucified with Jesus was saved. He also has his reward.

Sorry, but just because something is new doesn't make it wrong or a conspiracy. The world was once thought to be flat, yet that is obviously false as was revealed with the advent of human advancement. If you told someone a few hundred years ago that if you stuck a plain piece of bread in a box for a minute or two, that it would become "toasted" they would call you a witch. That doesn't make toasters a conspiracy.