Atheism only a recent conspiracy

As I said on another thread about the same subject...


I guarantee you the minute someone started throwing virgins to the volcano god or telling people that the Gods would be angry if they didn't hand over all their money, there were also people saying "yeah right!!" and "What a load of crap"

Unfortunately, these people couldn't have a voice otherwise they were killed and burned and stoned to death for being crazy, witches, possessed and whatever else.



The Notion that people only just started realising what a crock of **** religion is, is absolutely absurd.

Religion is a symptom of large groups of people being afraid of death (and acquiring power, of course - what better way to keep people in line?). With Groupthink, people with different views are alienated. They either conform (so they won't be murdered), or just keep their mouths shut about it.

Societies in the past that have been less than civilized, gained great amounts of power through religion. The powerful people made the statues, made the inscriptions & wrote history. Most of these civilizations were based around their religion.. It's my view that in an uncivilized environment, it would be practically impossible to wield any power without the mass hypnosis, indoctrination & punishment system known as religion with the invisible judge watching over you ready to send you to a fiery pit for all of eternity if you don't obey laws.

Sure there were people that believed it was all BS. I'm sure there were people in power that didn't believe the non-sense they were coming up with. But how do you keep control of a group of people while promoting freedom of self? It's pretty much not doable, IMO

reply to post by Mimir

In the earlyer stages of mankind we hadn't invented the concept of God yet, you dont find any "theism" untill very late into the stoneage or pre bronze age. Dont try to tell me they could make "cartoons" showing huntingexpeditions in their cavedrawings, but didn't depict their beliefs in "the almighty".

What you're saying is that there are no cave drawings of Gods ? That are just as old or older than those drawings of what helped sustain their very lives ?

You can't be saying that ?

reply to post by Tea4One


That is what you believe, it is not necessarily true all the same.
Belief in a god or gods is just that, a belief.
It will never be more than that.
No amount of religious fervour can change that.
Sorry, but true.

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by randyvs

 

Yes, thousands or hundreds of years ago people filled gaps in knowledge with magic (aka god)...and to some extent that's still happening. But thanks to scientific method and the fact that knowledge is now easily available on the Internet and TV, it's only rational that atheists are on the rise.

If there are so many things about a particular religion that is DEMONSTRABLY wrong, such as global floods less than 10k years ago, or people surviving in whales, or gods with elephant heads, or that humans just popped up in their current form without evolution, then people will start to question "the whole package". And that's exactly what we're seeing right now.

Just look at the decline of believers in the US, during a time when the number of atheists almost doubled. That happened in the last 15 years ago since the Internet made it easy to educate yourself about facts.

In short, I'm not sure what the argument is, but if it's that cultures thousands of years ago weren't atheists...then...well...that makes PERFECT SENSE because they didn't have an ounce of the knowledge we have today. Welcome to the 21st century

I think hundreds of years ago would suffice.

There you are. I was hoping this would bring you from obscurity.

reply to post by blupblup


Most of the people who seemed to dislike those actions also believed in a deity. They faulted human nature rather than religion. I mentioned the reformation before, its a perfect example. Luther didn't agree with how the catholic church was run however he was a religious man hence the protestant following he had created from his theses.

The masses weren't very educated and the way they were was to obey the status quo. That was one of the reasons the bible was kept in Latin. It was so the masses couldn't read it and muster the thoughts to disagree with it.

Considering the amount of Atheists in the world compared to the number of folk who see undeniable proof of a creator by whatever name they call him, I would say it is a small smart of an overall conspiracy.

That conspiracy would be the making of the Father of Lies. He offers conflicting options for every mindset.

So the assertion that the atheists absence of belief automatically negates a conspiracy fails to take into account the possibility that Satan does indeed exist...and doesn't care what you believe as long as it's not Yaweh. Peace.

Originally posted by jessejamesxx
Religion is a symptom of large groups of people being afraid of death (and acquiring power, of course - what better way to keep people in line?). With Groupthink, people with different views are alienated. They either conform (so they won't be murdered), or just keep their mouths shut about it.

Societies in the past that have been less than civilized, gained great amounts of power through religion. The powerful people made the statues, made the inscriptions & wrote history. Most of these civilizations were based around their religion.. It's my view that in an uncivilized environment, it would be practically impossible to wield any power without the mass hypnosis, indoctrination & punishment system known as religion with the invisible judge watching over you ready to send you to a fiery pit for all of eternity if you don't obey laws.

Sure there were people that believed it was all BS. I'm sure there were people in power that didn't believe the non-sense they were coming up with. But how do you keep control of a group of people while promoting freedom of self? It's pretty much not doable, IMO

I totally reject your response, as being based on assumptions and ignorant to the evidence. Star anyway.

If you define atheism strictly as the denial of God's existence, it seems that atheism originated in the 17th century. There may have been movements that undermined the faith that originated earlier and led to the "evolution" of atheism but, the absolute denial of the divine seems to be a relatively new belief system in the history of mankind.

The Myth of Renaissance Atheism and the French Tradition of Free-Thought (1968) employ a narrower (and more modern) definition of atheism that more strictly distinguishes blasphemy, heresy and anticlericalism from direct questioning of God's existence. [4] They conclude that there is no good evidence for atheism (in this stricter sense) prior to the seventeenth century. According to these historians, accusations of atheism in the sixteenth century and earlier amount to nothing more than an indication that the accuser was in some respect or other hostile to the position of the accused, not that there was any genuine atheism around.[5]

Depending on the history of atheism consulted, the interested reader can come away either with the impression that contemporary atheism has a long lineage stretching back through the atheists of the French Enlightenment, the Paduan Averroists of the sixteenth century, the middle ages and back to antiquity; or that it appears surprisingly late in history, no earlier than the mid seventeenth century.

In one respect historians defending their employment of a broader definition of atheism obviously have a point. Strict philosophical atheism (in the narrow sense of the denial of God's existence) did not come from nowhere, and as Schroeder has noted, a range of heterodox strategies employed by deists and pantheists from radical biblical criticism, religious comparativism, the undermining of Christian revelation and the establishment of natural religion can be identified as important factors determining atheism's first appearance. However, these cannot be identified with atheism, even if they prepare the way for it.

Cambridge

reply to post by Sailor Sam

If ancient man beleived in atheism, then there would be no "stone god" records of this, as they, then like now, did not need these images.

I think this is an excellent point, that there would be no trace of ancient atheism. Point taken.

Originally posted by randyvs

Originally posted by jessejamesxx
Religion is a symptom of large groups of people being afraid of death (and acquiring power, of course - what better way to keep people in line?). With Groupthink, people with different views are alienated. They either conform (so they won't be murdered), or just keep their mouths shut about it.

Societies in the past that have been less than civilized, gained great amounts of power through religion. The powerful people made the statues, made the inscriptions & wrote history. Most of these civilizations were based around their religion.. It's my view that in an uncivilized environment, it would be practically impossible to wield any power without the mass hypnosis, indoctrination & punishment system known as religion with the invisible judge watching over you ready to send you to a fiery pit for all of eternity if you don't obey laws.

Sure there were people that believed it was all BS. I'm sure there were people in power that didn't believe the non-sense they were coming up with. But how do you keep control of a group of people while promoting freedom of self? It's pretty much not doable, IMO

I tottally reject your response as being based on assumptions and ignorant to the evidence. Star anyway.

Do you completely reject the idea that religion has been a colossal tool to keep people in line? Or do you reject the idea that one of the main ways for a civilization to be successful, and the rulers to maintain their power and positions is through religion?

You reject my negative sentiments towards religion, as well as ignoring the truth held within my opinion, which is in a sense ignorant.

Originally posted by jessejamesxx
Religion is a symptom of large groups of people being afraid of death (and acquiring power, of course - what better way to keep people in line?). With Groupthink, people with different views are alienated. They either conform (so they won't be murdered), or just keep their mouths shut about it.

Societies in the past that have been less than civilized, gained great amounts of power through religion. The powerful people made the statues, made the inscriptions & wrote history. Most of these civilizations were based around their religion.. It's my view that in an uncivilized environment, it would be practically impossible to wield any power without the mass hypnosis, indoctrination & punishment system known as religion with the invisible judge watching over you ready to send you to a fiery pit for all of eternity if you don't obey laws.

Sure there were people that believed it was all BS. I'm sure there were people in power that didn't believe the non-sense they were coming up with. But how do you keep control of a group of people while promoting freedom of self? It's pretty much not doable, IMO

What a generalization, to claim to understand the minds of most of the world (they're afraid of death)
If being afraid of death makes you believe in God then that must make us severely paranoid and delusional. The biggest fear of death I have is the way I die. It would be the same for most other people. Instead of relaying information from Stephen Hawking why don't you actually look at certain religious people as an example. I'l give you a few names - Wycliff, Jerome, Huss, Luther... They were all persecuted to death for trying to expose the true gospel, please explain to me how these people were afraid of death if they could have preserved their lives by bowing down to the Catholic apostasy?

I can generalise on atheists too - They're afraid of truth

reply to post by jessejamesxx

Do you completely reject the idea that religion has been a colossal tool to keep people in line? Or do you reject the idea that one of the main ways for a civilization to be successful, and the rulers to maintain their power and positions is through religion?

Not at all. I'm not unfamiliar with the fact that those in power can use anything to their advantage. Most of all Atheism.
And therein lies the conspiracy.

reply to post by Dezero


Death is one of those mysteries that no one truly understands. It's understandable that they tried to come up with a story about what happens after death, or give a name to the person that judges where you go.. No one wants to not know. It's not about fearing death necessarily, it's about fearing the unknown, and creating a religion makes those unknowns "known".

I'm not specifically talking about "God" or modern beliefs. I could be talking about Voodoo, or any other paganistic belief. You don't believe in those things - why couldn't those beliefs been created for power & control, or because of fear of the unknown?

Originally posted by randyvs
Not at all. I'm not unfamiliar with the fact that those in power can use anything to their advantage. Most of all Atheism.
And therein lies the conspiracy.

What does this even mean? Most of all atheism? Religion has been used for thousands and thousands of years for power & control - millions upon millions of people dead in the name of religion.. and you're saying that atheism, which came around only recently (in a big way), is the bigger tool for power? Which wars have been waged in the name of atheism? How many of your rights have been infringed upon in the name of atheism? Because I can make the counter argument.

Originally posted by jessejamesxx

Originally posted by randyvs


What does this even mean? Most of all atheism? Religion has been used for thousands and thousands of years for power & control - millions upon millions of people dead in the name of religion.. and you're saying that atheism, which came around only recently (in a big way), is the bigger tool for power? Which wars have been waged in the name of atheism? How many of your rights have been infringed upon in the name of atheism? Because I can make the counter argument.

edit on 27-10-2011 by jessejamesxx because: (no reason given)

I'll do you a favor and present the whole of your argument.

reply to post by randyvs


I'm not watching a 47minute video.

Please stop deflecting & attacking and explain your position, or admit you're wrong. How is atheism used "most of all" for power and control, more-so than religion has been in the past?

Originally posted by Dezero
Just look at all the greatest civilizations, they all worshipped some kind of idol or anti-Judeo/Christian God.
Then you look at the Illuminati and the Vatican today with all their symbols and Idols, you have to come to the conclusion that something is giving them power.

Yeah. Ignorance and fear. Fortunately for them, there's plenty to go around.

Nobody summarizes this better than Neil DeGrasse Tyson:

Originally posted by jessejamesxx
reply to post by randyvs

 

I'm not watching a 47minute video.

Please stop deflecting & attacking and explain your position, or admit you're wrong. How is atheism used "most of all" for power and control, more-so than religion has been in the past?

Sorry I was watching the vid.
Attacking, really?:

Stalins atheist regime alone murdered 20 million people. What does that say for their rights? Don't cry that this is an attack now . In deflection . )