Atheism only a recent conspiracy

." Sadly, we can not choose how we meet our end."

Proximo From the movie, Gladiator.

Death, not really a popular subject these days. This was not always so, looking back to ancient civilizations.
Most everyone these days does know, the egyptian Pharoahs, would spend much of their kingship, in preparations
for the after life. Toiling over detail upon detail in their lavish tombs. They believed that what was buried with
them, was like packing a suit case for vacation. They could take along the things they would need.
There were no atheists amoung them and as you look at every ancient culture on earth. There is not one
without some form of deity worship and firm belief in an after life. It's easy to see that atheism wasn't
even considered a thought at that time. I myself would be so bold as to say, that from the looks of things.
Atheism would have been looked upon as a joke. Or the ravings of a mad man to be snickered about
and laughed at and mocked.The very idea even today seems absurd when we consider the efforts
ancient man made to their idea of God or the gods.



Even these all powerful God / Kings ( born of earth and sky ), could not choose how they met thier end.
But it was no joke to them. As we look at every one of the most powerful ancient civilizations. Some of the
massive stone structures and hand carved from solid rock temples and monumonts, declare some damn
good reasons. Rather than some myths and made up lies. There is no power in a lie. For sure there isn't
this kind of power.

This kind of belief, in my mind, came thru reasons that are far beyond a populations consensus. Or mass
delusion or fantasmic subjective religious experience. Or psychoactive experience. These gigantic atrocities
suggest belief that was beyond all that, no questions asked. A sort of a, this is it and it was world wide. With differences yes, but the theme was absolute and evident. Their beliefs have even some how carried on right up to today.



It's easy for me to see atheism as only a modern conspiracy. How about you?

How can not believing in something be a 'conspiracy'...?

Originally posted by FOXMULDER147
How can not believing in something be a 'conspiracy'...?

That's a good question Mulder. I guess that's part of what I'm asking here. Good one.

Not really a conspiracy, or am I missing something?

You could say, and I would suspect most people to agree, that as out species has progressed and matured, and as our knowledge of the universe and they way it works has increased, the more likely it is that people are atheist.

In other words, as we have become less ignorant to how things work, there is less of a need to believe in religion. We can explain a great many more things now than anyone could have done all those years ago, and as such feel less of a need to attribute it to god(s)

I tend to think that there have always been intelligent, observant, logical people who at some point in their lives recognize that all the stories about gods and other kinds of supernatural forces are at best conjecture and at worst lies. But they live in a society that doesn't cotton to that kind of thinking, and deal with anybody who expresses those thoughts by burning them or stoning them or killing them in some equally brutal fashion.

So they keep it to themselves. They go to the temples and pretend to pray. They go through all the rituals everybody else does. Down deep they accept that it's all a lot of nonsense, but because they live in this life to the end, and want to avoid pain and death, they just shut up about it. No sense getting killed over... what?... nothing?... freedom of expression?... Great, you expressed your belief, but now you're dead. Way to go.

reply to post by randyvs

I'm not sure how long Atheism has been around.
I'm sure "some" people didn't believe in God.
As for the guy saying that we have matured and become less ignorant...
Are we on the same planet?

reply to post by Griffo

In other words, as we have become less ignorant to how things work, there is less of a need to believe in religion. We can explain a great many more things now than anyone could have done all those years ago, and as such feel less of a need to attribute it to god(s

I disagree that being able to explain the mechanics of any design negates a designer.

Atheism wasn't even in mass thought during the reformation. Even the most intellectual believed in a deity, atheism is only really a new thought. (New history wise). Before the reformation though atheists would have been burned for being heretics, tough life huh?

The proof of Theism only appears in the later part of the 55,000 years modern man has been around. So we would have to say religion is the modern conspiracy not atheism.

reply to post by randyvs


If ancient man beleived in atheism, then there would be no "stone god" records of this, as they, then like now, did not need these images.
Just because there are a few 'stone god" images, does not preclude the idea that ancient man was as dividied over the existence of god(s) as today.

A false premise is being perpetuated here, without any positive proof.

Originally posted by GmoS719
reply to post by randyvs

 

I'm not sure how long Atheism has been around.
I'm sure "some" people didn't believe in God.
As for the guy saying that we have matured and become less ignorant...
Are we on the same planet?

A fact that we must admit to ourselves for sure.

reply to post by Tea4One


I disagree - even the most intellectual said that believed in a deity...if they actually didn't they were smart enough to keep it to themselves. Anyone who truly believes in magical creatures can't be all that bright no matter when they happened to live.

Originally posted by Tea4One
Atheism wasn't even in mass thought during the reformation. Even the most intellectual believed in a deity, atheism is only really a new thought. (New history wise). Before the reformation though atheists would have been burned for being heretics, tough life huh?

As I am also convinced.

All fascinating responses so far, even tho, some are completely bias.

I do hope Byrd has some thoughts on this.

reply to post by RedParrotHead


From the historical evidence we have we understand that most were religious. You could somewhat argue how could the educated cardinals in the catholic church be so religious but yet so corrupt. You could also argue how Thomas Hobbes with his views in leviathan was an atheist however this has no proof.
From what we can gather in historical documents is that educated men, due to being educated in such a manner and things like Calvinism truly believed in a God.

reply to post by randyvs


Most people (historians, archaeologists and others) would agree that atheism (of spirit not of name) is way older than any religion.

In the earlyer stages of mankind we hadn't invented the concept of God yet, you dont find any "theism" untill very late into the stoneage or pre bronze age. Dont try to tell me they could make "cartoons" showing huntingexpeditions in their cavedrawings, but didn't depict their beliefs in "the almighty".

The word Atheism probably didn't evolve before any Theism, but that doesn't make the religions older than the basic "no-god-universe".

reply to post by randyvs


Egyptians also believed the Pharaohs were gods correct? so why wouldn't they want to believe in their religion if they were considered gods? I mean would you pass the opportunity to be considered a god and be treated like one?

Unless your talking about the common people then how do you know that every egyptian did believe there were gods? Maybe some Egyptians believed there were no gods.

The thing is that atheism is hardly a modern invention but because religion was so popular "back in the day" they probably silently accepted the religion yet believe there were no gods or openly believe in it and like you said got ridiculed.

A reason to turn to atheism from religion is that some people might've felt "betrayed" by the gods and thus refused to believe in them.

reply to post by Tea4One


I never said that most people weren't brainwashed by whatever belief system they were exposed to, I merely suggest that some were stronger willed or smart enough to disregard such fairy tales...otherwise there wouldn't be any atheists at all.

reply to post by randyvs


Yes, thousands or hundreds of years ago people filled gaps in knowledge with magic (aka god)...and to some extent that's still happening. But thanks to scientific method and the fact that knowledge is now easily available on the Internet and TV, it's only rational that atheists are on the rise.

If there are so many things about a particular religion that is DEMONSTRABLY wrong, such as global floods less than 10k years ago, or people surviving in whales, or gods with elephant heads, or that humans just popped up in their current form without evolution, then people will start to question "the whole package". And that's exactly what we're seeing right now.

Just look at the decline of believers in the US, during a time when the number of atheists almost doubled. That happened in the last 15 years ago since the Internet made it easy to educate yourself about facts.

In short, I'm not sure what the argument is, but if it's that cultures thousands of years ago weren't atheists...then...well...that makes PERFECT SENSE because they didn't have an ounce of the knowledge we have today. Welcome to the 21st century

Originally posted by RedParrotHead
reply to post by Tea4One

 

I never said that most people weren't brainwashed by whatever belief system they were exposed to, I merely suggest that some were stronger willed or smart enough to disregard such fairy tales...otherwise there wouldn't be any atheists at all.

True, I just think there isn't any substantial proof of atheism in the minds of educated men at the time. Even the renaissance was highly influenced by religious thought.

Maybe things started to change after the enlightenment? I don't know.

Just look at all the greatest civilizations, they all worshipped some kind of idol or anti-Judeo/Christian God.
Then you look at the Illuminati and the Vatican today with all their symbols and Idols, you have to come to the conclusion that something is giving them power.

It is clear as day that worship was a strong part of all powerful nations.