I dont think jesus wanted religion

Originally posted by BroketheWall
reply to post by daggyz

 

What I choose is my choice! Who knows what his true image is..i dont think jesus would of been light haired and blue eyed either

Jesus was Aramaen (province of Israel). Aramaens looked like the other Israelites in the region. Dark colored hair (brownish), brown or hazel eyes (some did have blue eyes but it was very rare), with a tan complexion. Youre not supposed to try to imagine what the Lord looks like because if you try to and pray to it and you are wrong (and you will be because no one living now knows what he looks like) then you just commited idolatry.

There's going to be alot of people that are shocked when they see that Jesus isn't a white or black man with fabulous hair and when he looks nothing like what they imagined. It's best to not try to picture him or you will fall down a hole you don't want to be in.

I agree with the religion is a sham thing but still want to believe in Christ as son of God. But what about the scripture at Hebrews 10:25 which encourages the congregating of people.

There are just too many un answered questions and contradictions in the bible for me to have faith in it as an un adulterated inspired book. And because i have weak luke warm faith God will spit me out?!?!

I think not.

I am waiting on God and have complete faith that he loves me and what will be will be. The earth needs an enema and i am waiting for the big show.

reply to post by The Great Day

There are just too many un answered questions and contradictions in the bible for me to have faith in it as an un adulterated inspired book. And because i have weak luke warm faith God will spit me out?!?!

There are plenty of places you can go to that debunk every conceivable "contradiction" in the Bible. If you want to look, that's up to you. And I used to feel somewhat like you, a great resource I've found that proved the Bible is God's inspired Word is the teachings of Dr. Chuck Missler.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


This reminded me of somethin that happened to me the other day..a jehovahs witness stopped me and asked if I believe and god and then I said no, I KNOW THERES A GOD! Take a look around, I thought you were a jehovahs witness...lol

The way modern Christians worship just doesn't feel right to me. I agree that Jesus wouldn't have wanted believers to do what they are doing today. Even things like tithing, which isn't mentioned in the Bible to my knowledge, or at least not as it is portrayed today, just says something about churches in general. I understand they need to keep their doors open by making money, but by lying to people? That isn't right.

People actually believe that Jesus said one should give 10% to their churches. I know this because I asked some members from my grandmothers church, which I used to attend, and they really think this. Am I the one who is wrong here?

There are many other problems as well. Especially with Catholicism. Confession? Really? Where did Jesus say one could not talk to God personally? Wasn't that one of the points of the crucifixion? I don't know, it's just so confusing sometimes.

Reply to post by JiggyPotamus

May I direct you to the Hebrew Roots/Messianic Judaism movement.

I am the son of a Baptist preacher who was the son of a Baptist missionary. I was always bothered by the contradictions between religions and the Scriptures.

Then, about two years ago, I happened upon an internet broadcast. Within the span of two hours, every issue I had for the last 18 years was solved scripturally.

I went home and researched it, and ended up with different questions and doubts. The next day, I listened to the same broadcast (different teacher, though), and those were solved as well. This process continued for about a week and a half. It was nothing short of amazing. That was the first time in my life that I actually saw God at work. Blew my mind.

My eyes are now open, and I am slowly learning to live life how YHWH intended me to live. Everything in the Scriptures fits perfectly, and I am extremely happy. Of course, I still have much to learn and change, but AI have thrown off the chains that were holding me back, and I am truly free.

It is a tough road, and you will get MANY criticisms from both mainstream Christianity and Judasim. But no one ever said it would be easy, and no one ever said people were going to like the truth.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

reply to post by NOTurTypical


According to the scriptures Satan is the ruler of the world 2 Corinthians 4:4...thanks for that one God. So if this is the case it would be safe to assume Satan can and has influenced everything on this earth including the bible and religion. The bible even talks about false religion....soooo in that there must be a true religion? There are countless references to temples and congregations. So then....who is the true religion since the bible talks about it.

Originally posted by The Great Day
I agree with the religion is a sham thing but still want to believe in Christ as son of God. But what about the scripture at Hebrews 10:25 which encourages the congregating of people.

There are just too many un answered questions and contradictions in the bible for me to have faith in it as an un adulterated inspired book. And because i have weak luke warm faith God will spit me out?!?!

I think not.

I am waiting on God and have complete faith that he loves me and what will be will be. The earth needs an enema and i am waiting for the big show.

I hope that this may help...

Romans 3:22
NIV "This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference,"

AKJV "Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ to all and on all them that believe: for there is no difference:"

Rev 19:11 "I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and makes war."

Why was Jesus called Faithful and True? Because He was faithful and true to God. So when we look at Romans 3:22 we see a translation difference - the first is "through the faith IN Jesus" and the second is "by the faith OF Jesus". Was not Abraham's faith in GOD credited as righteousness? So was Jesus's faith in God.
Likewise, your Faith in God is to be all - Jesus never doubted God. He went to the cross fully knowing what would happen, and His Faith in God saw Him through. Perhaps this explanation will help you to see why God brought Himself into the world through Jesus Christ. Read John 11 with the above in mind. I pray to God through Jesus Christ because my faith is IN God...

Originally posted by The Great Day
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

According to the scriptures Satan is the ruler of the world 2 Corinthians 4:4...thanks for that one God. So if this is the case it would be safe to assume Satan can and has influenced everything on this earth including the bible and religion. The bible even talks about false religion....soooo in that there must be a true religion? There are countless references to temples and congregations. So then....who is the true religion since the bible talks about it.

Well, what does that same Biblical verse say is "pure religion" (James 1:27)? If you wish to go by the Biblical definition of "pure religion" then I'm a Biblical religionist, if you want the world's common definition of religion, I certainly reject that.

reply to post by BroketheWall


Why'd he want a church then? Why did he select underlings and create a hierarchy?

Originally posted by BroketheWall
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

This reminded me of somethin that happened to me the other day..a jehovahs witness stopped me and asked if I believe and god and then I said no, I KNOW THERES A GOD! Take a look around, I thought you were a jehovahs witness...lol

Knowing and believing are not really the same things. Just because you know he exists and is there doesn't mean you love him. Believing is having the faith to be able to not actually see him standing in front of you, but you are willing to die for that belief and that you love him so much that no matter if you were to die or be tortured no one would ever be able to make you recant or curse him.

When i fell away, i left God for 14 years. I knew he was there and existed, but i lost faith. I stopped believing and caring until he called me back. So many bad things happened to me when i was a child, a broken home and a very physically abusive father who like to use me as a punching bag, I cried out for God to deliver me or to strike my father dead but he never would. By all rights i should be in prison or dead, but instead of smiting my father as i begged, he gave me the strength to persevere and survive and the strength to stay out of jail and not get into trouble with the law. He has blessed me with all the things i never had as a child in my adulthood. It took me 14 years to learn how to forgive, and when i learned how to forgive i learned how to love unconditionally. It took my 14 years to learn how to see him and the things he has done for me, when i turned my back on him he never turned his back on me. It hurts me to this day to know that i was a fool for not being able to see all the things he had done for me. He was always there even when i thought he had given up on me. Never again will i ever lose faith in him again, because now i see him.

Its like the song "amazing grace" says. I once was blind but now i see. I know exactly what those words mean now when i never did before. I feel sorry or atheists and people who cannot believe in him, they are missing out on something truly great and wonderful. Jesus Christ, no greater love have i ever known or ever will know.

Originally posted by The Great Day
I agree with the religion is a sham thing but still want to believe in Christ as son of God. But what about the scripture at Hebrews 10:25 which encourages the congregating of people.

There are just too many un answered questions and contradictions in the bible for me to have faith in it as an un adulterated inspired book. And because i have weak luke warm faith God will spit me out?!?!

I think not.

I am waiting on God and have complete faith that he loves me and what will be will be. The earth needs an enema and i am waiting for the big show.

Just believe in Jesus. The Holy Spirit will tell you the truths in the bible. Ask the Lord to teach you about him more and more and a little bit each day. I don't even have to read the bible anymore to know his will. The Holy Spirit teaches me about the Lord everyday, just listen to him in your heart. The bible is good to know because it has moral lessons to be learned and Jesus said "if you love me then you will keep my commandments". Those commandments become engraved on your heart. Walk in the fear of the Lord, but live in his love and grace, for without him we are dead and can never reach heaven without him.

I asked the Lord to teach me about him a little each day and the Holy Spirit gives me lessons, you just have to open your mind and your heart and learn to hear him talk. Sometimes i will say things and am astonished and afraid at what comes out of my mouth and i will look it up in the bible and it is scripture. That is how you know when the Holy Spirit is teaching you, he knows all the laws and because he dwells in you, you know them too. The Holy Spirit flows from Jesus into us, the spirit of God. Jesus Christ who is the Lord and who is named Yahweh, the name above all others. All the prophets whom the jews murdered to shut them up foretold who the savior would be, God himself. Isaiah knew exactly who the messiah would be and he wrote of him many times.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by BroketheWall

 

Why'd he want a church then? Why did he select underlings and create a hierarchy?

Jesus Christ wasn't creating a religion. He was creating a brotherhood where his sons and daughters could come to fellowship with eachother and gain strength and remember him and then go out to spread the good news to those who would have the courage to believe.

Remember that in the first century the Holy Spirit was so strong in Jesus and his apostles that everytime they preached thousands were converted instantly. The dead were raised, the lame healed and the sick cured. Their goal was to shine a light burning so bright that thousands of years late rit would still be shinning and it is, even though it has begun to fade because the end is near and the darkness pushes us back. The end is so very near. Satan has roused the world up to try and snuff out the light the Lord has created in us. This is why the Lord must return soon, people have begun to believe in the god of science and the gods in the space ship ufo's, and the old gods have begun to arise again. Time is reversing in this regard. All is returning to the old ways that had disapeared, back to the days of Noah.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

Jesus Christ wasn't creating a religion. He was creating a brotherhood where his sons and daughters could come to fellowship with eachother and gain strength and remember him and then go out to spread the good news to those who would have the courage to believe.

This is a church to me, as he called it. And that is, in fact, a religion. A brotherhood bound to the same rules and expectations is a religion.

Religions are commonality. That's all it is. Some find commonality in evil, and are bound to the devil for that. Manipulated without even knowing, for they have no protection from the spirit.

Remember that in the first century the Holy Spirit was so strong in Jesus and his apostles that everytime they preached thousands were converted instantly. The dead were raised, the lame healed and the sick cured. Their goal was to shine a light burning so bright that thousands of years late rit would still be shinning and it is, even though it has begun to fade because the end is near and the darkness pushes us back.

Beautifully renditioned. And probably true. Though I think it's just tat doubt has found a home in this generation.

The end is so very near. Satan has roused the world up to try and snuff out the light the Lord has created in us. This is why the Lord must return soon, people have begun to believe in the god of science and the gods in the space ship ufo's, and the old gods have begun to arise again. Time is reversing in this regard. All is returning to the old ways that had disapeared, back to the days of Noah.

I think they are merely taking what God has given to us and erasing the hand that gave it. I find no contradiction with what science says with what God says.



Perhaps this is relevant to you.




It was always meant to be a religion. But the cruel heart of men chose their path, and manipulated it as they desired.

No, the Gnostic Jesus didn't put any stock in religion or rituals or prayer. He laughed at the Apostles for doing their rituals. It was his notion that the Creator God was so vast and incomprehensible that it couldn't be dealt with by people, so it might as well not even exist. The false crazy "God" of the Torah, Saklas (or Yaldabaoth) was crazy and couldn't be dealt with either, and had humanity trapped in this horrible existence.

All the Gnostic Jesus wanted was for people to realize this and understand that the best way to approach this terrible existence was to try and be nice to one another, and make the best of it day to day. Why purposely make things worse for each other? It may not make any difference in the long run, but it can make the average day a little more tolerable, and it's the only thing we have control over.

You don't need a religion or church to do that, although organizing for a common good purpose isn't bad. You don't need the pointless prayer and ritual, though. Just be excellent to each other.

Regardless if 'religion' was wanted or not, the answer would be to FIRST understand what is 'religion' itself.

If you had read the bible and other mainstream religious texts, it is only a Constitution whereby a race can gain civilisation - peaceful co-existant from to grow and evolve.

The very first Constitution was given to Moses - the 10 sacred Commandments. If only it had been closely followed, perhaps mankind would had been spared of the pain we today are going through.

However, even after giving mankind a constitution to follow, at the same time, mankind too had been given free will, for our Creator, known by many names across time and geological barriers in our world, wanted no robots to manage this planet, but gradual evolving beings to take to the stars as was His promise to humanity - our eventual destiny.

Being given free will, and with a constitution, mankind had freely chosen his own fate and path to evolve, and thus so too must the Constitution so that our destiny is not altered.

Thus, the many divine Teachers sent to our planet to help guide us back onto the path - with an evolving constitution across time and space just as mankind had evolve and progress, with better knowledge and comprehension about our world and the Universe around us than our first ancestors ever could comprehend without taking a leap of faith, akin to being robots, a feature our common Creator does not want.

Unfortunately, there are mortals whom would warp Constitutions to suit their own selfish interests, and not for mankind. But anyone of latter generations will know that those man created and interpretated constitutions are wrong, as societies go astray and get into deep serious trouble, so much that another have to take its place at great cost to human lives - revolutions and rebellions - a sight that would only sadden our common Creator who loved us all for we are His creations, and no creator wants to see his creations destroyed unless beyond redemption.

May we as race, with our gifted free will, be more wiser and discerning now today, to carefully swear allegience to a correct Constitution which is only a set of guidelines and codes for peaceful existant amongst each other of the same race - human, sharing this world for our progress and evolution to fulfil our destiny, and not one that is selfish and that would destroy each other.....

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101

Being given free will, and with a constitution, mankind had freely chosen his own fate and path to evolve, and thus so too must the Constitution so that our destiny is not altered.

When i read that, immediately I thought of this verses:


"Today I offer you life and prosperity or death and destruction... I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse. Therefore choose life, that you and your offspring may live," ~ Deuteronomy 30:15,19

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Hi Not Your Typical

You wrote: QUOTE

“Dude, what are you smoking? The ONLY part of the Bible that was written in Aramaic was a portion of the book of Daniel. The entire OT was translated into Greek 300 years before Christ was alive. It's called the "Septuagint". It was a necessity because the common people needed a version of the Tenakh in Greek!

And this was a necessity 300 years before Christ! You tell me why there was a need to translate the Tenakh into Greek if no one spoke Greek? The territory of Judea had been Greek-speaking since the days of Alexander the Great…”

This is a patent falsehood – and I am VERY surprised that you would DARE to be so careless in any ATS discussion, when you are sure to be ‘found out’ by those like myself who are more conversant with the actual material you are discussing – shame on you !!

I take it you cannot read either paleoHebrew OR Aramaic, otherwise you WOULD know (wouldn’t you?) that parts of the Canonical book of Ezra was ALSO written in Aramaic? If not, take a paleo-Hebrew course, then a proto-Mishnaic Hebrew course, then an Aramaic course--- then take a very very very close look at Ezra chapter 4:8 through chapter 6:18 and also Ezra chapter 7:12 to Ezra 12:12-26 and THEN YOU WOULD KNOW that these passages ARE NOT HEBREW but are (shock and awe!!) Aramaic passages, in fact!)

If you are convinced that R. Yehoshua bar Yosef the Galilean dictated the gospels in Greek (‘verbatim’) then you really need to compare the Greek words placed into the mouth of the Greek Speaking Iesous of the 4 canonical gospels and notice how EACH writer freely TRANSLATED his own literary composition FROM ARAMAIC – that is the only way you can explain some of the blatant differences in the various Greek versions of the ‘LOGIA’ or sayings placed into his mouth.

The Greek LXX Septuginta (c. 250-100 BCE) was translated in ALEXANDRIA Egypt (NOT Palestine) specifically FOR DIAPSORA JEWS in Asia Minor aka ‘the Elect of the Lost Sheep of the House of Yisro’el scattered amongst the goyim…’ who by the time of ‘iesous’ had lost their mother tongue & primarily only understood Greek….

Scholars have long known and worked on the details of "Hebraisms" or "Aramaisms" in the New Testament documents – you only have to take a close look at the baby-Greek in the 2nd canonical Gospel ‘according to Mark’ whoever he was – to see that his Greek is often grammatically impossible, but quite workable if translated back into its mother tongue – Aramaic. Scholars who have studied this issue for centuries have seen Aramaisms in ‘Mark ‘in the very warp and woof of his bad-Greek grammar; see e.g. the 7 Mark 3:17 where ‘James & John’ are called “Boanereges,” (Aram. Benei Regesh –‘sons of thunder’) also “Corban” (Mark 7:11), Cf. also Mark 7:34 etc

Here’s a beginners link on Wikipedia, since you are not conversant with these issues, apparently

en.wikipedia.org...


Have you ever heard of the several Vorlagen Aramaic and Hebrew TEXTUAL CONSONANTAL UNDERLAYS to the later Greek translations of the Hebrew scriptures that were unearthed in caves 1-11 of the Dead Sea Scrolls?

Do you NOT know that ONE family of these Hebrew and Aramaic Underlays (Vorlag) that formed the basis for the Greek LXX Septuaginta translation out of Alexandria (c. 250-100 BCE) were found in Palestine among the Dead Sea Scrolls (beginning Nov 1946) in caves 1-11??

Did you NOT know that ANOTHER quite different Hebrew & Aramaic text family (Vorlag) was used by the Greek translation produced by Symmachus, and that Hebrew/Aramaic Vorlag fragments from that family (#2) were found among the Dead Sea Scolls caves 1-11?

Did you NOT know that ANOTHER quite different Hebrew & Aramaic text family (Vorlag) was used by the Greek translation produced by Aquilla, and that Hebrew/Aramaic Vorlag fragments from that family (#3) were found among the Dead Sea Scolls caves 1-11?

Did you NOT know that ANOTHER quite different Hebrew & Aramaic text family (Vorlag) was used by the Greek translation produced by Theodotion (quoted by the writer(s) of the Book of Revelation when he cites DANIEL?) and that Hebrew/Aramaic Vorlag fragments from that family (#4) were ALSO found among the Dead Sea Scolls caves 1-11?

Did you NOT know that the 1st canonical Gospel (‘according to Matthew’ whoever he was) did NOT cite the LXX Septuaginta ‘Alexandrian’ translation 45% of the time when he was making proof texting citations (‘this was done to fulfil what what spoken by the prophet so-and-so…’) , but rather that he freely translated into Greek passages from the Aramaic TARGUMIM of the prophets that were widely being circulated during the lifetime of R. Yehoshua bar Yosef the Galilean Nazir (Gk. Iesous)?

Is ALL this news to you? If so, go back to school and learn some basic facts of this subject !!!

reply to post by Sigismundus

This is a patent falsehood – and I am VERY surprised that you would DARE to be so careless in any ATS discussion, when you are sure to be ‘found out’ by those like myself who are more conversant with the actual material you are discussing – shame on you !!

Yeah, I don't really care for your preparatory statements for an appeal to authority argument, but are you denying that Alexander's former empire nations were Greek-speaking?

Thank you for the correction, I wasn't aware portions of Ezra were written in Aramaic.

. The road home to glory for Gods people has always been a road of rejection by various people through the journey. When small one might have experienced it already then you grow into teenage years & maybe experienced it there. The time to experience it the most is when you accept the word. Not some organizational word oh no the true word then all hell turns against you & the best of friends, family, children, loved ones reject you or in their actions may stumble or hurt or injure you. All Christians have that we don’t want to be pitied & get some back pat we don’t need such organizational trash.

We do not need to be told like the denominations do telling all people are going to Heaven & glorifying the devil to their own defeat & outreach. We don’t take such tripe at all. The road home is a individual affair with God & one person only. It’s not a hard life & is lived automatically. The organizational parasite would stumble at the very thought of not having an assembly or get together place we gather in Christ the rock. The organizational chicken lives to glorify the works of the devil by building to some universal or just some local church get together or assembly establishing something for the organization or the people. A better church, better pews, a better pulpit, carpeted with the best, the best pagan statues & mosaics & decorated just like Cain decorated his altar & approach to God. It backfired & God is not in such trash at all. God is in no church on the face of the earth. No matter what they claim & how religious they act He is outside all organizations. He is pushed out by the clergy & Judas’ offspring who are again guilty of the crucifixion of the word. Not one church on earth accepts His True message.