I dont think jesus wanted religion

reply to post by eight bits


I understand what your saying...i always thought god choosing a certain people caused a problem too. To humans, it just looks like arrogance to say we are the chosen ones and the rest of you are wrong in your beliefs...

reply to post by NOTurTypical


What I like about missler and stone is that they know the bible from the hebrew roots and they think outside the box. Ill check that website out, again thanks!

Originally posted by BroketheWall
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

What I like about missler and stone is that they know the bible from the hebrew roots and they think outside the box. Ill check that website out, again thanks!

Well, that's more Perry, Missler brings his professional experience and training to the Bible. His mastery of Physics and Greek is amazing. I especially like when Missler goes on about Physics and Genesis chapter 1.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Is it greek with missler? The guy probably knows both lol...he's an encyclopedia! Ive seen like half of his teachings, you know how he does the whole bible. They both talk about nephilim, which I thought was no mans land fir a preacher!

Just a few thoughts OP. Do with them what you will.

Heres a question christians never think of...if jesus was God do you think he would of knew/knows that making another religion would only cause more wars and will only cause more seperation in the world!?!

Jesus didn't create a new religion. He fulfilled one covenant, and established a new one. Notice I said fulfilled. Not abolished. He, in himself, met the requirements of the old covenant. Adding to that. The old covenant was but a shadow of things to come. A looking forward to.

John 5:39 You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me.

He also says he didn't come to bring peace.

Matthew 10: 34-35 34 “Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword. 35 For I have come to ‘set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law’;

He also opposed the very thing that seperates the church today. Sectarianism.

Mark 9:38-39 38 Now John answered Him, saying, “Teacher, we saw someone who does not follow us casting out demons in Your name, and we forbade him because he does not follow us.” 39 But Jesus said, “Do not forbid him, for no one who works a miracle in My name can soon afterward speak evil of Me.

As well as two other things that plague the church. Legalism and tradition in the place of commandments.

Just a few thoughts to ponder from Balaam's donkey.

Originally posted by BroketheWall
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Is it greek with missler? The guy probably knows both lol...he's an encyclopedia! Ive seen like half of his teachings, you know how he does the whole bible. They both talk about nephilim, which I thought was no mans land fir a preacher!

Yeah, 90% of the seminaries teach the "lines of Seth" argument for Genesis chapter 6. Which is complete B.S. I think Missler knows a lot about Hebrew, but not like he has a mastery of the Koine Greek.

Jesus was clearly an enlightened person/et/nephalim, it would seem to me that one of his main messages was to reject religious dogma, and that people can have a direct relationship with the creation through truth and purity.
Humanity seems to continuously move away from unfounded beliefs and towards this truth, through knowledge.

The belief that Jesus is in fact "God" is a "blasphemy".

Although I have known some good christians, I detest the church of the christians, as I am certain that is based on falsehoods. It is clearly designed to extort and manipulate people who are searching for the truth.

Christians tend to be self-righteous and often "Euphorically condescending" which really pisses me off.
Like who the f#$$ck are you to tell me I can not have a relationship with the "Creator" without believing that Jesus is God.

Jesus has been used by the church as a political figure, which I think is truly evil considering his message.

I think satan was not staging a coupe in heaven, but is the embodiment of this arrogance to presume to know the properties of "that which can not be named".

The only reasonable way of perceiving "God" is through pantheistic beliefs.

Here's a thought-provoking comment I came across on a blog:

Jesus is the human face of God. We meet God in Jesus, the breaking of the bread, and the broken bodies of the poor and oppressed...The way Christianity is practiced in this society it is mere moralism, and it often allies Christ with the oppressor. But true Christianity is a way, and it is communion with God, not a religion, or moralism.

So much religion binds people. Its essence is: you need to do this before God will ever accept you. For those with an ear to hear, the Creator reaches out via Jesus with spellbinding openheartedness:

"Come, everyone who is thirsty,
come to the waters;
and you without money,
come, buy, and eat!
Come, buy wine and milk
without money and without cost!
Why do you spend money on what is not food,
and your wages on what does not satisfy?..

Seek the LORD while He may be found;
call to Him while He is near...
Let the wicked one abandon his way,
and the sinful one his thoughts;
let him return to the LORD,
so He may have compassion on him,
and to our God, for He will freely forgive.

Source: Isaiah 55

Simple message: Come to Me as you are.

...whoever drinks from the water that I will give him will never get thirsty again—ever! In fact, the water I will give him will become a well of water springing up within him for eternal life."

Source: John 4:14

What he wanted was people to live free of oppression, within and without, in this life, and the next.



A little postscript:

reply to post by davesmart

i despise all religion
i read the bible just so i could disagree
no part of the bible says that jesus said im the son of god

That is simply incorrect:

"...you, a mere man, claim to be God..."

”Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?..

Source: John 10:33&36

reply to post by BroketheWall


Jesus came on a mission here to establish His Kingdom and proclaim The Gospel. He is not a religion. He is The Son of God and He told us how to reach His Kingdom.

Remember, part 2 is coming at some point. It is not finished yet. In Daniel it says that The Messiah will be cut off from His people and will seem to have accomplished nothing. Those of us in the know are aware of what He began by bringing God's Kingdom to the earth.

reply to post by BroketheWall

The bible has been misinterpreted and people misinterpret it when they read it? Understand?

reply to post by BroketheWall
Hi Broke

R. Yehoshua bar Yosef the Galilean Nazir (Gk. Iesous) an ex-disciple of 'R. Yohanon bar Zechariah' (i.e. 'John the Baptsit) preached the coming of the 'Good News of the Kingdom of Heaven' i.e. a Daviddic dynasty in eretz Yisro'el and announced the imminent overthrow of the the gentile Kittim occupiers (=the Romans) c. 36 CE on the 100th anniversary of the invasion of the violent Roman General Pompey (63 BCE) and its 100 year brutal military-occupation of Judaea....

What he got was strung up on a Roman Gibbet as an armed Seditionist (i.e. an armed military Daviddic Pretender whose coup against Rome failed - see 'the canonical Greek Gospel according to Luke' whoever he was, chapter 22:35-36) and a 'pauline church' (i.e. 'Christians') founded by a man born in Turkey (ancient Cilicia) who never even met R. Yehoshua himself in the flesh (only in dreams and visions, sort of like my house-painter).

To quote one of my ancestors (=Robby Burns) 'The best laid schemes o' Mice an' Men, gang aft agley...' !!

Originally posted by Warpthal
reply to post by BroketheWall

 

The bible has been misinterpreted and people misinterpret it when they read it? Understand?

True because man had his hand in printing the bible and we are not perfect. Paul McCartney said it best "twist the words of wisdom, let it be". Jesus went out of is way to teach us to let it be. Come as you are, freely accept the gift of forgiveness and forgive others was the everlasting message. We forgive others and so many things are solved. We will always have evil, but how we deal with it is what sets us apart or includes us in the madness of hate.

reply to post by BroketheWall




Right on. Jesus never intended a new religion. What he taught is best embodied in his famous sermon on the mount that is so widely ignored by "Christians". It was we humans who loused everything up (as usual) by making Christianity.

Originally posted by trailertrash
reply to post by BroketheWall

 

Right on. Jesus never intended a new religion. What he taught is best embodied in his famous sermon on the mount that is so widely ignored by "Christians". It was we humans who loused everything up (as usual) by making Christianity.

? Who ignores the sermon on the mount? That was one of Christ's greatest teachings and Matthew pretty much has it verbatim.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

Hi Not Yours

You wrote:

QUOTE

'Who ignores the Sermon on the Mount? That was one of Christ's greatest teachings and Matthew pretty much has it verbatim..."

UNQUOTE

The so-called Sermon on the Mount (cf: the 3rd gospel's Sermon on the Plain) found in the 1st canonical GREEK gospel 'according to Matthew' (whoever he was) was a LITERARY WRITTEN compilation of various LOGIA (sayings) placed into the mouth of a GREEK speaking 'Iesous', originally SPOKEN orally in Galilean ARAMAIC ('ippsissima verba') over a much longer period (possibly up to 7 years) and worked into an artificial 'Sermon' by the literary-compilers of the 1st canonical Gospel.

If the 'Sermon' in 'Matthew' was ever written down in Aramaic, that Ur-text has not survived.

The WRITTEN Greek canonical 'council approved' Gospels are LITERARY 'midrashic' documents written in a foreign 'occupier' language to Palestinian Jews , and NOT verbatim accounts of anything.

So...if R. Yehoshua bar Yosef the Galilean Nazir (Gk. iesous) spoke Galilean ARAMAIC....how could the hotchpotch in 'Matthew' chapters 5 through 7 be regarded as in any way shape or form 'VERBATIM' ?

In view of all this, why would you even dare to claim such nonsense?

reply to post by pause4thought


Thats pretty much what the preacher mark driscoll was saying in noturtypicals video, do you hate religion as much as I do...

Originally posted by Sigismundus
reply to post by NOTurTypical

Hi Not Yours

You wrote:

QUOTE

'Who ignores the Sermon on the Mount? That was one of Christ's greatest teachings and Matthew pretty much has it verbatim..."

UNQUOTE

The so-called Sermon on the Mount (cf: the 3rd gospel's Sermon on the Plain) found in the 1st canonical GREEK gospel 'according to Matthew' (whoever he was) was a LITERARY WRITTEN compilation of various LOGIA (sayings) placed into the mouth of a GREEK speaking 'Iesous', originally SPOKEN orally in Galilean ARAMAIC ('ippsissima verba') over a much longer period (possibly up to 7 years) and worked into an artificial 'Sermon' by the literary-compilers of the 1st canonical Gospel.

If the 'Sermon' in 'Matthew' was ever written down in Aramaic, that Ur-text has not survived.

The WRITTEN Greek canonical 'council approved' Gospels are LITERARY 'midrashic' documents written in a foreign 'occupier' language to Palestinian Jews , and NOT verbatim accounts of anything.

So...if R. Yehoshua bar Yosef the Galilean Nazir (Gk. iesous) spoke Galilean ARAMAIC....how could the hotchpotch in 'Matthew' chapters 5 through 7 be regarded as in any way shape or form 'VERBATIM' ?

In view of all this, why would you even dare to claim such nonsense?

Aramaic wasn't spoken by the common folk during Christ's time. It was used ceremoniously much like the Catholics use Latin today. Christ primarily spoke Greek as a citizen of Judea under Roman occupation.

reply to post by Warpthal


Lol you talk to me like in 5 but thats how simple these concepts are that make religion seem so foolish!

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Hi Not Yours --

You wrote:

QUOTE "Aramaic wasn't spoken by the common folk during Christ's time. It was used ceremoniously much like the Catholics use Latin today. Christ primarily spoke Greek as a citizen of Judea under Roman occupation..."

UNQUOTE

This is patently absurd and is not in any way shape or form supported by any serious modern textual scholarship -

Quite the contrary - the (4) Canonical Greek 'council approved' gospels are chock-full of what are known as "Aramaisms' when whole phrases are often badly translated into Greek -- and it is ONLY by re-translating the VERY bad Greek of say, the 2nd Greek canonical Gospel ('according to Mark' whoever he was) word for word back INTO Aramaic can we make any sense of the 'grammatical howlers' of the mangled text copies - ditto for the grammatically impossible Greek of the socalled Book of Revelation - which was based on an Aramaic poem, broken into stanzas of 24 lines each before being roughly mangled into baby-Greek which the translators had trouble working with...

We also have a number of contemporary Palestinian Aramaic documents (outside of the massive corpus of Dead Sea Scrolls penned between BCE 280 and 68 CE in caves 1-11 at Qumran) that prove that protoMishnaic Hebrew and a mix of Aramaic dialects was spoken by Palestinian Jews - as well as in the Galilee e.g. Kaphur Nahum ('Capernaum', where the Greek speaking Iesous of the 2nd Canonical Gospel allegedly owned a house !) and not the Greek of the New Testament, which is LATE 1st century Koine Greek penned AFTER the 1st Failed Jewish War against Rome (c. 66-70 CE), and addressed to Jews of the Greek Speaking Diaspora synagoges.

If you will only read them closely, you would see again and again andf argain that the canonical Greek gospels OFTEN find it necessary to translate and trans-literate many of R. Yehoshua's original Aramaic / proto Mishnaic Hebrew words & phrases (e.g. "Ephraphtha ! or 'Talitha Qumi' or 'Rabbouni !' or 'Abba !' which are Aramaisms NOT Greek).

e.g. 'And he took the child by the hand, and spoke to her saying, TALITHA QUMI - which when translated [into Greek] means "Girly, I order you to get up !"

If the ipsissima verba were Greek words, then there would be no need for a translation INTO Greek FROM galilean Aramaic. So your argument that R. Yehoshua would even want to speak the language of his military captors is absurd.

The spoken Hebrew of Palestinian Jews living in the 1st century CE (esp before 70 CE) is clearly something like a mixture of early proto-Mishnaic Hebrew - a variety heavily influenced by Aramaic, although Greek was spokeen by Jews of the Diaspora ('Dispersion') in Asia Minor - and clearly there were a number of Greek speaking Palestinian Jews living in Jerusalem.

The fact that the 1st canonical 'council approved Greek gospel ('according to Matthew', whoever he was) quotes the Hebrew Scriptures in weird translations INTO greek show that the writer was using text families that were NOT the Septuaginta itself, but an Aramaic Targum Paraphrase of the various Hebrew versions which were freely translated in many places ('this was done to fulfill what was spoken by the prophet so-and-so...') INTO Greek, uniquely in the NT -

In fact, it was not until the discovery of the Dead Sea Scroll material (c. Nov 1946) that scholars actually had text copies of the Hebrew Scriptures that were far older than anything previously known - including many Hebrew and Aramaic Textual 'Underlays' (German: VORLAGEN) used by the later Greek translators in Alexandria and other places (e.g. the LXX Septuaginta, or the text of Symmachus, or the translation of Theodotion or the one of Aquilla - all based on Hebrew texts NOT matching the LXX )

You'll also notice that the Greek words placed into the Greek Speaking Iesous of 'Matthew' have alot more in common with these Aramaic Targum Paraphrases than say, the later Masoretic Hebrew text versions (codified with vowells c. 1000 CE in Leningrad)

So, it's back to school for you, it seems !!

No offense to anyone on here and this is only my opinion but I think people who believe in god are they same people who think super man and bat man are real. God is the ultimate super hero in a comic book. How can someone believe in talking animals and someone being born from a virgin. Come on now !

Has anyone ever watched the movie called religulous by bill maher. That movie is great . He actually goes to talk to all these religious people who don't have their facts straight and trip over words trying to answer his questions.