Are the 72 virgins self-aware?

Originally posted by elliotmtl
If they are self-aware, where did they come from? If there's going to be 72 per man, that's kind of a lot.

Yeah, it's a bit too many, that's why they ran out.

Out of interest, does the Qu'ran anywhere say that mass murders and those who deliberately and knowingly act against the teachings of Mohammed (who amongst other things taught that Christians and Jews should be respected and treated as equals*) will go to heaven and be served by 72 virgins?

For that matter, does it say anything about 72 virgins?


* well maybe not quite in those terms, but near enough

Virgins are boring, and don't do "it" for me.
If I were to get anything along these lines, I would hope it was 72 experienced, perhaps moderately self aware female counterparts. Do they hang all over you constantly? Because I want my space after, I'm kinda an A -hole like that.

Do you get them all at once,or is it like a daily thing? I mean, is there like some prerequisite for tackling the 72 over a period of time, or can we just knock this out all at one time?

Why 72, why not an even 60 or 80?....I am OCD I know.

Reply to post by Essan

Does it say that? Because I was actually reading it last night and it called Jew and Christians evil doers that Muslims are not supposed to take as their friends.


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reply to post by Essan


reply to post by snowen20

You both asked somewhat related questions.

This answer is as good as any:

Does the Koran really promise Islamic martyrs 72 virgins?

The Koran doesn't refer to them as Virgins but rather as something like: "beautiful women with round breasts"

Then you have to go to traditional sayings in the HADITH to get the number 72: "Hadith number 2,562 in the collection known as the Sunan al-Tirmidhi says, "The least [reward] for the people of Heaven is 80,000 servants and 72 wives, over which stands a dome of pearls, aquamarine and ruby."

Sweet. But I'm not sure what I'm going to do with 72 wives, let alone 80,000 servants.

But then again I might burn in hell for that cartoon I just posted so maybe I won't have to worry about it?

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
reply to post by Essan

 

reply to post by snowen20

 

You both asked somewhat related questions.

This answer is as good as any:

Does the Koran really promise Islamic martyrs 72 virgins?

The Koran doesn't refer to them as Virgins but rather as something like: "beautiful women with round breasts"

Then you have to go to traditional sayings in the HADITH to get the number 72: "Hadith number 2,562 in the collection known as the Sunan al-Tirmidhi says, "The least [reward] for the people of Heaven is 80,000 servants and 72 wives, over which stands a dome of pearls, aquamarine and ruby."

Sweet. But I'm not sure what I'm going to do with 72 wives, let alone 80,000 servants.

But then again I might burn in hell for that cartoon I just posted so maybe I won't have to worry about it?

Maybe it is just the human in me but if I had 80,000 servants I automatically have an ARMY......What to do what to do...
From what I understand there is a chain of command in heaven, I mean among men as well.
Some in heaven are servants to other humans. I suppose the martyrs become like kings there, while the less radical get to mop floors in the ruby and aquamarine palace.

72 virgins has no basis in any authentic hadith in islam, but in quran it does mention virgins, thats gota be mest up, promising pussy to men is the lowest anyone can go, imagine if the women are concious, just imagine how it might feel to get banged for all eternity,

reply to post by 0thetrooth0

You're feeling sorry for the women? Even if the man is going at it twice a day, he won't even get around to the same woman once a month, just over that. So once a month is no big deal.

It's the man you should feel sorry for, how is he going to keep 72 wives happy? It's hard enough for most men to just keep ONE wife happy, right?

I'm not sure if they thought this through. Is this heaven, or hell, one guy trying to keep 72 wives happy?

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
It's hard enough for most men to just keep ONE wife happy, right?

Arb, from where I sit... It's impossible! And not for lack of trying.

OK, seriously, let's assume for a second that the Wikipedia article is correct, and it almost certainly is in part that is quoted from Qur'an, because I cross checked some of the quotes. So here we go:

en.wikipedia.org...

Gardens of perpetual bliss: they shall enter there, as well as the righteous among their fathers, their spouses, and their offspring: and angels shall enter unto them from every gate (with the salutation):
"Peace unto you for that ye persevered in patience! Now how excellent is the final home!"
Qur'an, sura 13 (a-Raʾd), ayat 23-24

Maybe you can tell me what you think of that. You see, if I enter the paradise with my spouse (fat chance, I know) at what Qur'an promises to be the age of 33 (excellent age to be sure), she would be most displeased if I decided to get up close and personal with the 72 female members of the heavenly troop. In fact she'd be so p!ssed I don't envy the angels who are apparently tasked with keeping the place orderly. I don't think my daughters would like seeing me like that, either.

So what is it about? Is it only for single or celibate people?

Their life is one of bliss including: wearing fancy robes, bracelets, perfumes as they partake in exquisite banquets, served in priceless vessels by immortal youths, as they recline on couches inlaid with gold or precious stones.

Now, this raises a host of questions. Why do immortal souls have interest in pretty grotesque worldly possessions? Do they get to keep their iPads? Harleys? And what's up with "immortal youths"? Are these AI's, holograms, or actual enslaved children?

reply to post by elliotmtl


I believe they are self aware. I also believe they are insatiably horny gay men with enormous thorny cocks!

How does the P word and the C word (referring to male and female genitals) get passed the site sensors?

Sorry to say but the virgins got knocked down to 20 - maybe.

Originally posted by buddhasystem
Now, this raises a host of questions. Why do immortal souls have interest in pretty grotesque worldly possessions? Do they get to keep their iPads? Harleys? And what's up with "immortal youths"? Are these AI's, holograms, or actual enslaved children?

I'm reminded of this conversation:

Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home

McCoy: Perhaps, we could cover a little philosophical ground. Life..... Death......Life.....
McCoy: C'mon, Spock, it's me, McCoy. You really have gone where no man's gone before. Can't you tell me what it felt like?
Spock: It would be impossible to discuss the subject without a common frame-of-reference.
McCoy: You're joking!
Spock: A joke.....is a story with a humorous climax.
McCoy: You mean I have to die to discuss your insights on death?
Spock: Forgive me, Doctor. I am receiving a number of distress calls.
McCoy: I don't doubt it.

I LMAO every time I hear that conversation, but the salient point is:

"It would be impossible to discuss the subject without a common frame-of-reference" .

I don't think it's impossible to discuss but it's hard to comprehend what an immaterial existence would be like since we are so accustomed to our material existence. Numerous sci-fi shows like stargate SG-1 explore some of the aspects of a non-corporeal existence that they call "ascension", presumably similar to or the same as life after death. But in those shows the character tries to get back to his corporeal existence, as if maybe the non-corporeal existence wasn't all it was cracked up to be.

But I agree it's quite odd to describe material type rewards for an afterlife consisting of an immaterial existence. A believer might say that perhaps things are just being presented in a fashion which our limited minds and experience can comprehend, while the skeptics might say, if you're making stuff up, you might as well make it sound as good as possible. And after all, is it really fair to single out this claim when there are so many others that are equally hard to explain?

At least the believers in the napkin religion don't have to answer all these awkward questions... they just keep it simple:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/dad52cbfed0b.jpg[/atsimg]
The only awkward question they have to answer is, how do they know their religion is the one true religion? Most other religions have to answer that plus a million more questions.

reply to post by Afterthought


Just a warning - It looks like there are some disputes regarding what is fact and fiction. But this is a "story" going back to around 1050ad so it has probably been tainted by enemies and friends more than once.
The wiki page is actually pretty good - looks much like an article I read years ago.
Origin of the Hassassins
Hasan-i Sabbah, a passionate Isma’ili who apparantly wanted some leverage against his enemies, is credited with creating the first assassins.
According to Marco Polo he drugged young male followers with hashish, put them inside a palace or similar surrounded by lots of gardens, food, water and beautiful women. He told them they were in heaven and that only he could get them back in.
Nice way to secure loyalty.
There are some stories about bloodless coups and the like, by the hands of these users of hashish(though that might also be a myth created to smear). But I don´t think there is any question that most of their business involved blood.

www.abovetopsecret.com...


22 degrees Celcius is equivalent to 72 degrees Fahrenheit?

www2.kabbalah.com...

72 Names of God

www.hebrew4christians.com...

The 22 Letter Name is sometimes considered part of the 72 Letter Name....that includes reference to the 12 tribes of Israel

Its not real is the main thing. 22 Virgins and 72 Virgins. The religions may have some real elements in amongst stories, parables and fables, but they're not real the way people think.

reply to post by supine

Damn, talk about being in hell for eternity!

Isn't that the truth? To be a virgin, and then be raped by a stranger who was a murderer while on Earth?

Er, I don't think so. Those virgins need to stage a heavenly revolution! End the madness!

reply to post by buddhasystem


The only thing I can figure is that the virgins conceived and created for this fantasy, are wired and designed to desire being raped by murderous strangers. This is what they crave. Rape. By evildoers. Maybe they are actually little demonettes-- who after the act is complete- show their true selves and devour the ravisher, flying with him squirming in their jaws through the hates of hell.

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
I don't think it's impossible to discuss but it's hard to comprehend what an immaterial existence would be like since we are so accustomed to our material existence.

Arb, I quite agree, but the degree of detail is quite astonishing for it to be a paraphrase! I'm sorry, but a reference to somebody doing 72 virgins just jumps out of the page as extremely material. In a salacious way. The picture they paint with all that jewelry and fine wines is downright earthly. It's a party, I get it.

Originally posted by ladyinwaiting
reply to post by buddhasystem

 

The only thing I can figure is that the virgins conceived and created for this fantasy, are wired and designed to desire being raped by murderous strangers. This is what they crave. Rape. By evildoers. Maybe they are actually little demonettes-- who after the act is complete- show their true selves and devour the ravisher, flying with him squirming in their jaws through the hates of hell.

Well said. You are right, it almost sound like a rape and s3xual slavery. Not good.

Intentional mis-translation of 72 RAISINS to give potential Jihad soldiers something to fight for

They were a delicacy back when the Koran was written

I would still like to see solid evidence that any real Muslim extremists / Jihadists actually believe in the 72 virgins. How do we KNOW that anyone really believes in it, and that its not just a little piece of propaganda trumpeted so often by the MSM that most of us assume it must be true?

On a similar note, I've even read some sources (not done any serious research, but this would require such obscurity that you'd have to devote an absurd amount of time and money to it)...that claim that many of the stories about the barbarity of the native South Americans (Aztecs, Incas, etc), such as human sacrifice, were made up by the conquerors to make it look like they were doing those people a service by destroying their culture. Ooo, these people are teh evilzz, they must be destroyed!!!

In a world where people find it so easy to morally justify lying, it can be extremely difficult to know what to think about such things...not only do you have the people deliberately and callously fabricating truth to selfishly serve their own agenda, you also have all the people who think that its okay to lie in any given situation if they think it will produce a "better" outcome for all involved parties. (not that I'm not guilty of the latter).

So,