The Maya and 2012: A Discussion

So last night I created a topic regarding 2012 and what the Maya actually had to say about the 13th baktun. My original hope was to inspire debate and discussion as to why people believe that December 21, 2012 has some significance to the Maya. Apparently I did too good of a job however because the topic was closed and pinned to preserve the material presented before it could go off track. So I have decided to go ahead a create this thread to host the discussion I was originally hoping to have. Here is a link to the thread.

The Maya and 2012 - timeline and references

reply to post by Xcalibur254


Is that what really happened?

I thought pinned as in pinned for a crime?

reply to post by Xcalibur254

Apparently I did too good of a job however because the topic was closed and pinned to preserve the material presented before it could go off track.

lmao. Sorry, but your ego is very amusing.

Nobody replied... at all. NOBODY!! Why would a thread be closed, to prevent it from going off track, when its track never began, in the first place?


Since you did give the name to many of your sources, then maybe this ↓ means that you should post a link to at least 1 of them??

Closed, pinned for reference material.

reply to post by LightAssassin


Yep. In a forum when you pin a topic it stays at the top of the list. If you go to the 2012 forum at the top you'll see the 2012 Thread Index and my thread.

I think a problem is .......hear say. I can actually obtain as many references as you did that will say the opposite with great authority too. Please do not take offense as I think you want a discussion and not proof you are right either way?

What is important to me is what the "now" elders say.....and what they have said is pretty short and sweet.

reply to post by BrokenCircles


The reason no one replied is because Byrd pinned it so quickly. She said that it was to make it a permanent resource thread and that she didn't want the information to get lost.

reply to post by MamaJ


I actually discuss Don Alejandro in that thread. Prior to Ian Lungold's visit to him he never mentioned any such prophecies. However, once Lungold introduced him to Jenkins' work he started making "prophecies" that quoted Jenkins almost word for word. Jenkins himself even mentions this in his 2009 book.

reply to post by Xcalibur254

Originally posted by Xcalibur254

The reason no one replied is because Byrd pinned it so quickly. She said that it was to make it a permanent resource thread and that she didn't want the information to get lost.

That's nonsense.

These are discussion boards, or discussion forums.
The point, is to bring about a discussion.

It is ridiculous to start a thread, about another thread. All that does is create a mess. The topic being discussed, should not be in a completely different thread.



P.S. I don't know for sure, but Byrd may not be a 'she.'
(previous avatar was of a male)

Originally posted by Xcalibur254
reply to post by MamaJ

 

I actually discuss Don Alejandro in that thread. Prior to Ian Lungold's visit to him he never mentioned any such prophecies. However, once Lungold introduced him to Jenkins' work he started making "prophecies" that quoted Jenkins almost word for word. Jenkins himself even mentions this in his 2009 book.

Well it seems as if you have it all figured out. I will leave the discussion for you to make note of your references and or beliefs.

reply to post by Xcalibur254


They closed it Im assuming because of the thread done a week ago on 2012/Mayans. Why do we need two? I can see why Bryd (female for those wondering) pinned it. The references for reading material are pretty good and it's always nice to have some kind of references to go to with topics like this.

Why make another thread about a thread? Why not just add your discussion to one of the dozens of 2012/Mayan threads.

I looked at your thread and it was nicely done imo. I know I can't put together a thread on this topic. I tend to go all over the place so its not organized

Here is the one thread from Sir Slide:
The Mayan Prophecies and 2012

Byrd says very plainly why she closed it:

Closed, pinned for reference material.

It was a well done OP. And I can see why she wanted to keep it for reference. S&F for you.

I haven't read all of it at present, but I intend to do so. I would like to say that I often see people talking about disinfo and misinfo to support their side of most conspiracies. But I seldom see the same people admitting there is misleading and false information on both sides of most every conspiracy.

Something to consider.

reply to post by mblahnikluver


My topic deals with a different area of research than sir_slide's. His is more focused specifically on the Popol Vuh and the Chilam Balam books while I decided to take a look at the 2012 phenomenon as a whole in relation to the Mayans.

reply to post by MamaJ


I am more than willing to listen to new material, but if you are going to present things I discuss in my thread I am going to refer back to them. When Jenkins, who stands the most to gain from Don Alejandro's "prophecies," says that Don Alejandro is basing his "prophecies" completely off of Maya Cosmogenesis 2012 I would that it's worth considering that Don Alejandro is being disingenuous. So you can keep believing that Don Alejandro is speaking the truth, but I don't see the point when even among 2012 researchers his credibility is shot.

Originally posted by Xcalibur254
reply to post by MamaJ

 

I am more than willing to listen to new material, but if you are going to present things I discuss in my thread I am going to refer back to them. When Jenkins, who stands the most to gain from Don Alejandro's "prophecies," says that Don Alejandro is basing his "prophecies" completely off of Maya Cosmogenesis 2012 I would that it's worth considering that Don Alejandro is being disingenuous. So you can keep believing that Don Alejandro is speaking the truth, but I don't see the point when even among 2012 researchers his credibility is shot.

Among other Mayan Elders he seems to be right on. They are all saying the same thing as far as I have read and understood.

There is no end of the world.... in "their" prophecy.....first and foremost.

During 1994, in Guatemala at a meeting of the elders, we lit a sacred fire day and night, and for seventy two hours there were more than three hundred elders participating. Not just to talk about the prophesies, but to awaken the power centers of the earth. That is why we are here now in North America, in Santa Fe. Each elder did their ceremonies for ten days. This was called the Continental Gathering Reunion. In 1997 we met again in Bogota, Colombia and ended in the Amazon. Over four hundred elders came. From there the indigenous people of North America were selected next in Santa Fe. Hopefully, you will help us. It is a prayer for Creating Peace. At each gathering there are certain papers presented and ceremonies done. Each tribe will share their knowledge and their prophesies, their ceremonies at the ceremonial sites. We struggle to defend our Mother Earth. All the goals discussed at the gathering must be written in a book. We are writing a history and publishing it, so the authorities can read it.

Some observers say this alignment with the heart of the galaxy in 2012 will open a channel for cosmic energy to flow through the Earth, cleansing it and all that dwells upon it, raising all to a higher level of vibration. Carlos reminds us: "This process has already begun. Change is accelerating now and it will continue to accelerate. If the people of the Earth can get to this 2012 date in good shape without having destroyed too much of the Earth, we will rise to a new, higher level. But to get there we must transform enormously powerful forces that seek to block the way." The date specified in the calendar Winter Solstice in the year 2012 does not mark the end of the world. Many outside people writing about the Mayan calendar sensationalize this date, but they do not know. The ones who know are the indigenous elders who are entrusted with keeping the tradition.

lettertorobin1.site.aplus.net...

All I am saying is I will believe a Mayan Elder over someone who wants to profit by writing a book.

the current epoch, is thought to be the 5th segment of the 5 each 5,120 year eras.... to end on 21 dec '12...

the thinking is that even though the Maya bebieve that the 4 previous 5,120 calendars
had all ended with different global fates,...ie. fire, flood, wind, earthquake
(i'm not sure which destruction went with which calendar segment of the full +26,000 year 'precession' cycle)

this 5th ' world-calendar' is to end with the final element...Spirit...
only to begin yet another 'Great Year' which comprises the full 26,000+ year precession cycle,
all within the larger cycle of the whole solar systems up-&-down orbit around the Milky Way Galaxy (approx. 250 Million Years)


we have exhausted the dawning of the Age-of-Aquarius...
the Platonic Year is not as romanticized as the Maya 2012 winter solstice
...we are in a Mythic Moment in Time whether we like it or not,

reply to post by St Udio


I cover this in my post as well. The belief that the Mayans believed in multiple incarnations of the world come exclusively from the Popol Vuh, which is a post-Columbian manuscript. When one looks at Mayan cosmology prior to this point there is absolutely no indication that they believe in multiple incarnations of the world and the use of Distance Numbers would seem to preclude this notion altogether. I'd also like to point out that the Popol Vuh is also where the belief that the Mayans believed the universe was multi-tiered came from. In truth they believed that their cosmology was a single level.

Originally posted by BrokenCircles
Nobody replied... at all. NOBODY!! Why would a thread be closed, to prevent it from going off track, when its track never began, in the first place?

Because he had excellent journal resources there. We moderators keep our eyes open for unusual threads with lots of documentation (hard core stuff) and will pin them as resources. There's a bunch by several different others pinned and topped in the Ancient Civilizations section. We often close the topic when we pin it to prevent "noise" (offtopic comments, thread drift) that wouldn't enhance the thread.

I snagged the thread before anyone had a chance to comment, actually.

Originally posted by MamaJ
I think a problem is .......hear say. I can actually obtain as many references as you did that will say the opposite with great authority too.

Videos are charming, but they're not historical. In other words, you can find (or pay) Mayans to say just about anything these days... but the real question should be "is this a NEW 'prophecy' that has been generated due to a lot of New Age tourists or is this a real belief that dates back a very long time?"

I can tell you I have an ancient Mayan prophecy saying that the president in power on the Day of Alignment will be Ron Paul, and I can even make a video showing several people who may (or may not) be Mayan who point to Mayan inscriptions (or what looks like them) and say that it's got "Pul" (Paul) and 2012.

Would that video and an article make it true? It shouldn't, but for many people it would.

What is important to me is what the "now" elders say.....and what they have said is pretty short and sweet.

Playing the anthropologist here -- how do you know they're REAL elders? Are they tribal elders or community elders or ones who speak for the whole culture? How do you know?

(Yeah. I know. Annoying question, but one of the FIRST things we learn is "what's the source and how recent is it?")

reply to post by MamaJ

I think a problem is .......hear say. I can actually obtain as many references as you did that will say the opposite with great authority too. Please do not take offense as I think you want a discussion and not proof you are right either way?

What is important to me is what the "now" elders say.....and what they have said is pretty short and sweet.

I opened a thread on this topic that suggests that giving weight to an opinion because of the person's ethnic heritage is racist. What is rather odd is that the claims being made are actually from New Agers that took these stories to Guatemala. The people there took the stories as their own and have promoted them. These are North American New Age stories that are not being repeated in Central America.

People buy into these stories because they are from people that are Mayans, i.e. this is racism.

reply to post by Xcalibur254


You are providing gender information that should be kept secret. I did not know.