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Originally posted by ultra_phoenix
So, ask you that question : If we stop that war, what will you say to the peoples who will ask you why they still have to live ( die ! ) under the Saddam regime !?
Originally posted by ultra_phoenix
Many peoples fails to understand many things with that " war ".
1) First of all, removing Saddam and setting a democracy is a good thing for Irak and her peoples BUT also for the rest of the free world.
2) ALL middle-east nations ( except Isra�l ) are all dictatorships. And we know all ( even you the so-called anti-war ) that the less dictatorships there is on earth, the better we are.
3) Dictatorships are good ONLY for the tyrants, not for the vast majority of the peoples who have to live under these dictatorships. Do you think that the nowdays Germans want to live, one more time, under a nazi regime ? No, they want to keep their democracy ! They payed an heavy price to have it. More than 6 millions germans have been killed during the WW2 ( 1939-1945 ).
4) As like there is a price for everything, some Irakis will die in that war. It's a sad fact. But another fact is that if we don't do something against Saddam, many Irakis will be killed by Saddam. And that time, it will not be some hundred or even some thousands of Irakis who will die,due to that war, but thousands and thousands and thousands...etc...etc..
So, ask you that question : If we stop that war, what will you say to the peoples who will ask you why they still have to live ( die ! ) under the Saddam regime !?
This is my opinion, and this is why I think that most of the anti-war protestors have just find another new good reason to show their anti-americanism ( and probably anti-Isra�l too ). Also, probably that a little minority cares only for his little a$$ and don't really care about the Irakis and their future. In fact, all the anti-war don't care if it's for oil or not, or if it's for freeing Irak and her peoples.
The real reason, the ONLY one, they can show their anti-americanism and they can take their " revenge ". After all, the communism/socialism failed all around the world.
And who's responsible ? The USA of course, not these hideous ideology, isn't it ?
I know this scenario because I had to deal with it in the eighties, but with another " war ", the Cold War !
Originally posted by MakodFilu
1) Before USA started the war, there were executions there on Iraq, agreed, but not to the same degree Iraqis are dying now because of this war and the actions commited by *both* fronts.
2) The 1st conclusion you reach (not necessarily the true one) is: oil. 2nd is water, and thus, control over mid-eastern countries.
Originally posted by TigeriS
1) And also many fails to understand that this war has nothing to do with what they say on the official news. It's a wrong war. In a couple of years you'll see.
2) Heard that soo many times, but everyone fails to explain why. I've never had any troubles in the 30 years that Saddam was on powe, so why suddenly it's is better ?
3) Democracy is not better for the vast majority of peoples either, look how "bad" we in the west live, high crime rates, poverty, homeless peoples, democracy is only good for the ones having money. And compared to the world population there are only a few with real money. The rest only have debts, loans etc... they have to work for the rest of their life to live. Waw that is great isn't it ?
Since we don't know any better, yes it is a great thing for some of us. Those who never had to sleep a night without food, even in a western country.
4) Oh yeah, this is one of the points I hate so much, why Iraqi's ? What is wrong with all the other nations ? What about the Palestinians for example, why is no one waging a war to liberate them ? Like I've said many many times before, this has nothing to do with the Iraqi people. Bush doesn't even care about his own people. Pay good attention on what he want to do for Iraq. Too bad you're not American because you'll know that those plans are far more better than those for Americans themself. America is not perfect, there are many many problems there. So how can Bush promise things he can't even make America a safe nice and sound place to live.
5) I will tell them, do it your self, many other have done so, there are way too many peoples here on earth who needs to get liberated, just like Saddam came to power, others can do so. They don't need Americans to help them. Saddam's regime is not the only regime here on earth, in Africa peoples day daily because of lot's of things, like war, hunger, oppression, and so on.
6) LOL, as if you care about the Iraqi people, you only care for America, if it wasn't for America no one would ever know the situation of others, I know more about this whole thing. Without the oil American economy will colapse. The danger is that the Euro is gaining ground on international level. America is a imperialist. Believe it or not, I don't mind, I do see enough evidence for that.
7) No it's not USA who's responsible, it's peoples like you and me who are responsable, we let them control us, we don't think for ourself, we listen to their media and buy everyting they tell us. I mean why aren't you mad about the fact that Saddam was a friend of USA before they got mad at him ? Where's the responsability of America who helped Saddam (and many other dictators) Why don't you never talk about that ? Don't you see that they cause all these problems themself ? Now for example they are helping Pakistan which have lots of Terrorist camps... wait 5 more years and see for your self how Pakistan will be attacked because they don't need them no more.
8) just can't stand people seeking for excusses to say this war is good.
Originally posted by dom
So TC, you're telling me that this war is being fought why?
The link with 9/11 is non-existent. Stop being fooled. You don't have to swallow everything your government suggests...
And it's totally obvious that the Israel/Palestinian situation needs to be sorted out by having two states living side by side. The West Bank and Gaza are indeed currently occupied by Israel, so I don't think it's too much to argue that making them not-occupied by Israel is equivalent to liberating them.
But *why* Iraq first? There where easier and most cruel dictatorships nearby. In fact, on all the place. No matter how many people killed Saddam, even more die daily on Iran, Pakistan,...
Originally posted by ultra_phoenix
1) I don't know exactely how many of his own peoples Saddam killed, but I'm definitively sure that the war will kill far less peoples than Saddam has already killed and will still killing in the future if he's not remove from the power. Also, see the future.After the war, no more tyrants in Irak will kill Irakis peoples. How many life will be saved ? 10k ? 100K ? More ???
As already stated, it's a *strange* thing to start with Iraq, to say the least.
2) Ok. And even if you right, what's the problem ? Oil, water, uranium(?), who minds ? THEY WILL BE FREE FROM A TYRANT ! Isn't it the most important thing ??????
Now you are watching the History and Discovery channel and barking "God save USA" even not being one of its citizens. Don't see the difference.
Some responses you did to TigeriS:
1) I'm pretty happy that peoples like were not in power, in the USA, during WW2.Otherwise, I was reading Mein Kampf and barking " Heil Hitler " all the day long !
Why not, why not and why not? No one gave USA the star to be the sheriff of the world. USA, as any other country, backs it's interest *first*, not the Iraq interest first, nor any other country interest first. So *any* of the aforementioned candidates is a worthy one.
6) ... We can think that the USA are imperialist. But do they have choice ??? Who will act if they don't act ? The EU ? The CEI ? The Chicoms ????????
There are no 'goods' or 'bads': such differentiation you are doing is childish.
Anyway There is 2 kind of imperialism. The good one ( setting up a democracy ) and the bad one ( i.e : Former USSR in Afghanistan ).
But only if you don't put your own tyrant there.
Helping the others nation is a duty ! There is many ways to help them. Removing their tyrants is one of these ways.
Iraqis are surely grateful for the food and water provided... given the stresses that war gave them. Anyway, I just don't see grateful sights on their faces: you saw any? I didn't. Desperate sights only.
8) I'm waiting for the end of the war, when all the Irakis will be free. When they will feel that they can speak. We'll see what you'll have to say. Like the Italians did it with Mussolini, they'll dance on the Saddam dead body !
But even there, you'll find a good excuse to say that the war was wrong. May be it would be a good idea to send you in Irak, in the after Saddam Irak. You'll explain them why the war was wrong.I bet they'll listen you very carefully........
Originally posted by ultra_phoenix
2) ALL middle-east nations ( except Isra�l ) are all dictatorships. And we know all ( even you the so-called anti-war ) that the less dictatorships there is on earth, the better we are.