I believe I was unlawfully arrested...

Hey guys, long time no see! I'd like some member opinions and if there are any lawyers out there on ATS I'd love for you to chime in. A few weeks back my girlfriend and I were having an argument in the car driving into town. It got a little heated and she was having a hard time concentrating on the road so she pulled into a bank parking lot to cool down. It was around closing time for the bank. The bank employees kept coming to the lobby door looking at us and then walking back into the bank. Shortly thereafter one employee held a sign up to the window stating the bank was closed and we need to leave. For some reason it really irked me so I basically stepped out of the car told her to "Mind her own #ing business and leave us alone." I got back into the car and noticed they were obviously calling the police. So I turned to my girlfriend and told her we'd better move down a few spaces to the next business, which she did.

Then the police show up. I told them we were having an argument, were cooling down and we'd be on our way shortly. I told them I don't wish to speak to them and that I do not consent to any searches in any form. They then proceed to walk past me to speak to my girlfriend. They talked to her for a minute and then came the inevitable request for identification. I told them I would not be providing ID, but will gladly tell them my name and birthdate, to which I did. The officer insisted I hand him over actual ID and I continued to refuse. Repeating only my name. At which point the officer threatened arrest. I told him my name and birthdate yet again. He then arrested me for obstructing a peace officer. Walked me to the back of his car and had me sit inside. Then went and talked to the bank employees and then tacked on disorderly conduct for telling them to mind their own business.

My question is how saying one sentence to someone through a glass window and refusing to hand over ID, but identifying myself by name somehow results in a crime in this free country? I think it was unfair, unlawful, and can't wait for my day in court. Does the ATS community also feel that my arrest was unlawful and any opinions on a defense and strategy in court?

You are required to identify yourself. I believe that your obligation to provide government ID depends upon your state. If you find that your state does not require you to identify yourself or does not require ID, you should seek legal counsel.

The charge of disorderly conduct is a catch-all that basically allows them to arrest you for anything.

I would contact a lawyer, and follow their advice. I for one would plead not guilty and opt for a trial by jury.

reply to post by av8r007


Ohhh! I am sorry to hear you had this trouble. Can't even have an arguement in public with your woman? Man, freedom is down the drain!

Your experience is so ridiculous. This would not happen in the UK. Sounds to me like the bank employees got freaked and thought you might have had bad intentions.

I wish you well and hope a judge just throws this incident out because it is just a big misunderstanding and lack of communication.

What a tit for tat world!

Originally posted by Revolution9
reply to post by av8r007

 

Ohhh! I am sorry to hear you had this trouble. Can't even have an arguement in public with your woman? Man, freedom is down the drain!

Your experience is so ridiculous. This would not happen in the UK. Sounds to me like the bank employees got freaked and thought you might have had bad intentions.

I wish you well and hope a judge just throws this incident out because it is just a big misunderstanding and lack of communication.

What a tit for tat world!

Haha, would not happen in the UK? It seems like anything goes in the UK, as long as the criminal isn't harmed.

Originally posted by xrevxoltx

Originally posted by Revolution9
reply to post by av8r007

 

Ohhh! I am sorry to hear you had this trouble. Can't even have an arguement in public with your woman? Man, freedom is down the drain!

Your experience is so ridiculous. This would not happen in the UK. Sounds to me like the bank employees got freaked and thought you might have had bad intentions.

I wish you well and hope a judge just throws this incident out because it is just a big misunderstanding and lack of communication.

What a tit for tat world!

Haha, would not happen in the UK? It seems like anything goes in the UK, as long as the criminal isn't harmed.

Exactly, equal rights and freedom of expression for criminals! Yea! In the UK there is no law! Hahaha!

"Anarchy in the UK"!

reply to post by av8r007

free country?

The two words quoted above are located in the last paragraph of the OP...

av8r007 its kinda ironic you have the Constitution as your avatar...

I love the Constitution, its one of the most beautiful documents ever written...
I love the idea of America, I consider myself a Patriot. A True Patriot to the pursuit of Equality and Freedom...


But this is not America land of the free/equal...

Its America land of...
"You can do anything you want... as long as you got the money to buy it"

Politicians, Judges, Police... everyone/everything has a price tag...

Don't expect equal and fair rights... its lunacy to believe it exists anywhere...
(Unless you are rich)
The Nibiru Mythos holds more merit than the our rights...
Don't get me wrong, I would love for the myth of our rights to be true... but just like Nibiru its just some words on paper passed down and told to children to scare them.

But its not just America... its the world.



I'm sorry that happened to you.
I wish you luck in court...
If i were you I would get the best Lawyer that I could.

Thats how it works right? If you pay top dollar, you walk away no matter what?
OJ Simpson... Casey Anthony... etc


Disclaimer: Just the rambling thoughts of a nobody.

Originally posted by Revolution9

Originally posted by xrevxoltx

Originally posted by Revolution9
reply to post by av8r007

 

Ohhh! I am sorry to hear you had this trouble. Can't even have an arguement in public with your woman? Man, freedom is down the drain!

Your experience is so ridiculous. This would not happen in the UK. Sounds to me like the bank employees got freaked and thought you might have had bad intentions.

I wish you well and hope a judge just throws this incident out because it is just a big misunderstanding and lack of communication.

What a tit for tat world!

Haha, would not happen in the UK? It seems like anything goes in the UK, as long as the criminal isn't harmed.

Exactly, equal rights and freedom of expression for criminals! Yea! In the UK there is no law! Hahaha!

"Anarchy in the UK"!

There certainly appears to be law. But it seems (from my admittedly biased perspective, as someone who does not attack other people nor break into their homes) that criminals are protected most of all. If someone forcefully enters your home and you defend yourself with lethal force (a reasonable response), you'll find yourself under indictment.

I'm sorry, but that is unreasonable. Breaking and entering is a violent act, and defending that which likely took you years of work to obtain is completely reasonable. Using violence to defend what is literally previous years of your life, and very likely future years of your life (in the event that the criminal intends to harm you), is completely warranted.

The UK seems unwilling to blame the attacker (in my above scenario, the home invader) for the violence that follows. That is unreasonable and worthy of ridicule.

Thanks guys, I appreciate the comments. I just feel it wasn't right. I satisfied the requirements of a Terry stop from what I can tell. I identified myself by name. In fact he never once actually used my ID after my arrest. My wallet sat 10 feet from me unopened. It wasn't to keep a criminal off the street in my opinion. It was to stroke his tiny ego and show me who was boss. It's policeman like him who give the whole rap a bad name.

reply to post by EvolEric


You make a very clear point about the State of the U.S and much of the world.

Money and influence buys freedom from the law. Remember that Bob Dyland Song "The Lonesome Death of Hattie Carol"?

Honestly, having read so much here about U.S, I could not cope with it there. I would go insane. I would be arrested within a week.

Seriously, as an outsider I can see great changes since 2001. It is on the road to becoming a Police State (if not one already).

I feel for the young guys like the OP here. He just had a ragged moment and gets stitched up for it like this. It is very silly of the U.S authorities to be oppressing people like this and that is what it is!

Life and normal living, freedom of expression is being severely inhibited! That is plain WRONG! The OP did no crime! He is not a criminal. He just had an arguement with his gal! Then gets stitched up like this. Just aint common sense!

Originally posted by xrevxoltx

Originally posted by Revolution9

Originally posted by xrevxoltx

Originally posted by Revolution9
reply to post by av8r007

 

Ohhh! I am sorry to hear you had this trouble. Can't even have an arguement in public with your woman? Man, freedom is down the drain!

Your experience is so ridiculous. This would not happen in the UK. Sounds to me like the bank employees got freaked and thought you might have had bad intentions.

I wish you well and hope a judge just throws this incident out because it is just a big misunderstanding and lack of communication.

What a tit for tat world!

Haha, would not happen in the UK? It seems like anything goes in the UK, as long as the criminal isn't harmed.

Exactly, equal rights and freedom of expression for criminals! Yea! In the UK there is no law! Hahaha!

"Anarchy in the UK"!

There certainly appears to be law. But it seems (from my admittedly biased perspective, as someone who does not attack other people nor break into their homes) that criminals are protected most of all. If someone forcefully enters your home and you defend yourself with lethal force (a reasonable response), you'll find yourself under indictment.

I'm sorry, but that is unreasonable. Breaking and entering is a violent act, and defending that which likely took you years of work to obtain is completely reasonable. Using violence to defend what is literally previous years of your life, and very likely future years of your life (in the event that the criminal intends to harm you), is completely warranted.

The UK seems unwilling to blame the attacker (in my above scenario, the home invader) for the violence that follows. That is unreasonable and worthy of ridicule.

Lighten up! It was a joke, a little wit!

The UK is a very peaceful place, comparitively. I have travelled many places and the UK is by far the safest and has a warmth and civility lacking in many other places.

We are tough on real criminals, too. I live in a beautiful place where people are friendly. We just aint become the "revenge" climate yet. Here there is still forgiveness and some understanding for young people.

The U.S is getting far too heavy on its citizens!

BTW, I have no criminal record atall, never been in trouble as an adult.

Originally posted by av8r007
Thanks guys, I appreciate the comments. I just feel it wasn't right. I satisfied the requirements of a Terry stop from what I can tell. I identified myself by name. In fact he never once actually used my ID after my arrest. My wallet sat 10 feet from me unopened. It wasn't to keep a criminal off the street in my opinion. It was to stroke his tiny ego and show me who was boss. It's policeman like him who give the whole rap a bad name.

If you feel you are innocent of the specified charges, then you should demand a trial by jury. I recommend that you seek legal counsel outside of the public defender's office. They will not fight for you, and will likely suggest you accept the prosecutor's offer and plead guilty. If it's your first offense, the prosecutor will likely suggest diversion: community service, conviction, fine, and no time in jail.

I say fight it.

Would it really have hurt that much to state why you were there and then to have given the officer your ID document when he asked for it? Bet if you did, he would of let you go with a smile as he is just doing his job, or are you hiding something

For all the officer knows, you could be a women beater that has been arrested before.

Imagine it was your daughter that was with a women beater, and the officer just let the guy go after he knew they were having an argument and the next day you find your daughter in a comma from been beaten.... Bet you going to run to the officer and sue him for not getting proper identification from the guy

Really works on my nerves when people think they are all high and mighty. Yes you might be Innocent but the cops cannot go around trusting everyone they come in contact with

reply to post by Revolution9


(Take this response as non negative or argumentative towards you)

Your post just about made me cry.


But what you said is true, It has changed.

You don't even live here and you can see it!!!!

What am I blind to, that you arent?!?!?!

How bad is it really?!

I could very well be arrested and labeled terrorist or something stupid like that because of this post, if someone wanted to do so...
It is highly unlikely to actually happen...
But there are now laws that state... anyone can be deemed a terrorist and dealt with... and there isnt a damned thing you can do once that has been done... they have the power to pick and choose...

9/11 was a horrible tragic day.... 3000+ people died on that day and so did any hopes/delusions of freedom

Our politicians and leaders are liars who trick and molest the Constitution...

Originally posted by Revolution9

Originally posted by xrevxoltx

Originally posted by Revolution9

Originally posted by xrevxoltx

Originally posted by Revolution9
reply to post by av8r007

 

Ohhh! I am sorry to hear you had this trouble. Can't even have an arguement in public with your woman? Man, freedom is down the drain!

Your experience is so ridiculous. This would not happen in the UK. Sounds to me like the bank employees got freaked and thought you might have had bad intentions.

I wish you well and hope a judge just throws this incident out because it is just a big misunderstanding and lack of communication.

What a tit for tat world!

Haha, would not happen in the UK? It seems like anything goes in the UK, as long as the criminal isn't harmed.

Exactly, equal rights and freedom of expression for criminals! Yea! In the UK there is no law! Hahaha!

"Anarchy in the UK"!

There certainly appears to be law. But it seems (from my admittedly biased perspective, as someone who does not attack other people nor break into their homes) that criminals are protected most of all. If someone forcefully enters your home and you defend yourself with lethal force (a reasonable response), you'll find yourself under indictment.

I'm sorry, but that is unreasonable. Breaking and entering is a violent act, and defending that which likely took you years of work to obtain is completely reasonable. Using violence to defend what is literally previous years of your life, and very likely future years of your life (in the event that the criminal intends to harm you), is completely warranted.

The UK seems unwilling to blame the attacker (in my above scenario, the home invader) for the violence that follows. That is unreasonable and worthy of ridicule.

Lighten up! It was a joke, a little wit!

The UK is a very peaceful place, comparitively. I have travelled many places and the UK is by far the safest and has a warmth and civility lacking in many other places.

We are tough on real criminals, too. I live in a beautiful place where people are friendly. We just aint become the "revenge" climate yet. Here there is still forgiveness and some understanding for young people.

The U.S is getting far too heavy on its citizens!

BTW, I have no criminal record atall, never been in trouble as an adult.

I apologize, however, I did not sense any sarcasm.

You should realize that although the police here in the US are getting heavier on law abiding citizens, we do not experience excessive crimes in all areas. We're the size of Europe. Certain neighborhoods exhaust more police resources than others.

You can bet that any neighborhood with a majority of citizens who receive government subsidies are more likely to be riddled with crime. I would be willing to bet it's the same in your country and any other country. In the US, there are COUNTLESS opportunities for people to better themselves and escape their criminal/non-criminal lives. Most people do not take advantage of those opportunities.

And thus, we have ghettos riddled with violence and property crimes. I suppose when you give people things for free, they don't respect anything. Why would they? They never had to earn anything. When their property is destroyed, the "government" will just pay to replace it.

Everyone gets a government check, right? No worries. =\

Originally posted by bluedrake
Would it really have hurt that much to state why you were there and then to have given the officer your ID document when he asked for it? Bet if you did, he would of let you go with a smile as he is just doing his job, or are you hiding something

For all the officer knows, you could be a women beater that has been arrested before.

Imagine it was your daughter that was with a women beater, and the officer just let the guy go after he knew they were having an argument and the next day you find your daughter in a comma from been beaten.... Bet you going to run to the officer and sue him for not getting proper identification from the guy

Really works on my nerves when people think they are all high and mighty. Yes you might be Innocent but the cops cannot go around trusting everyone they come in contact with

Ja, papers bitte. Das ist gut, sehr gut.

reply to post by bluedrake


I identified myself by name and birthdate. They ran it after I was arrested and guess what they got the information they were looking for without that magic piece of plastic. They talked to my girlfriend directly and without my interference and what do you know she said the same thing. We had an argument and were cooling down. Just because it would have been easier to just hand over my ID doesn't make it right. No, I have no intention to sue the police department, but nice attempt to paint me as some crybaby looking for a payday. It was simply an illegal arrest and getting it dismissed is payment enough from the state.

It really irks me when people bow down to authority simply because "you have nothing to hide." I am a former federal officer of the United States. I never took it personally when people exercised their rights. Does the fact that I used to wear a badge myself change your opinion of me? I used to have that actual authority and yet I still believe in liberty!! FREEDOM DOES NOT SCARE ME!

Originally posted by xrevxoltx

Originally posted by Revolution9

Originally posted by xrevxoltx

Originally posted by Revolution9

Originally posted by xrevxoltx

Originally posted by Revolution9
reply to post by av8r007

 

Ohhh! I am sorry to hear you had this trouble. Can't even have an arguement in public with your woman? Man, freedom is down the drain!

Your experience is so ridiculous. This would not happen in the UK. Sounds to me like the bank employees got freaked and thought you might have had bad intentions.

I wish you well and hope a judge just throws this incident out because it is just a big misunderstanding and lack of communication.

What a tit for tat world!

Haha, would not happen in the UK? It seems like anything goes in the UK, as long as the criminal isn't harmed.

Exactly, equal rights and freedom of expression for criminals! Yea! In the UK there is no law! Hahaha!

"Anarchy in the UK"!

There certainly appears to be law. But it seems (from my admittedly biased perspective, as someone who does not attack other people nor break into their homes) that criminals are protected most of all. If someone forcefully enters your home and you defend yourself with lethal force (a reasonable response), you'll find yourself under indictment.

I'm sorry, but that is unreasonable. Breaking and entering is a violent act, and defending that which likely took you years of work to obtain is completely reasonable. Using violence to defend what is literally previous years of your life, and very likely future years of your life (in the event that the criminal intends to harm you), is completely warranted.

The UK seems unwilling to blame the attacker (in my above scenario, the home invader) for the violence that follows. That is unreasonable and worthy of ridicule.

Lighten up! It was a joke, a little wit!

The UK is a very peaceful place, comparitively. I have travelled many places and the UK is by far the safest and has a warmth and civility lacking in many other places.

We are tough on real criminals, too. I live in a beautiful place where people are friendly. We just aint become the "revenge" climate yet. Here there is still forgiveness and some understanding for young people.

The U.S is getting far too heavy on its citizens!

BTW, I have no criminal record atall, never been in trouble as an adult.

I apologize, however, I did not sense any sarcasm.

You should realize that although the police here in the US are getting heavier on law abiding citizens, we do not experience excessive crimes in all areas. We're the size of Europe. Certain neighborhoods exhaust more police resources than others.

You can bet that any neighborhood with a majority of citizens who receive government subsidies are more likely to be riddled with crime. I would be willing to bet it's the same in your country and any other country. In the US, there are COUNTLESS opportunities for people to better themselves and escape their criminal/non-criminal lives. Most people do not take advantage of those opportunities.

And thus, we have ghettos riddled with violence and property crimes. I suppose when you give people things for free, they don't respect anything. Why would they? They never had to earn anything. When their property is destroyed, the "government" will just pay to replace it.

Everyone gets a government check, right? No worries. =

That's ok! I am not very good at the wit anyway, lol!

Yes, the inner cities of UK are heavy places. I live out in the country in a beautiful peninsula, Cornwall.

I really like American people so much. I just worry with all that I read about the Police there. I know that it is all culturally linked. I cannot pretend to say I understand U.S culture as I have no first hand experience. I just worry about your freedom that is all because to me you were always the land of the free.

The UK riots are a real phenomenon. They don't happen all the time. What happened a few months ago was a wake up call for everyone. There are no jobs here for young people right now. There are severe shortages of housing and welfare has been slashed. Food, energy and other resources shooting up in price!

On a side note, I was round at my friend's house and he has a music studio and we were watching videos of bands he had mixed over the years. We saw a video of a gig from the 90s. Everyone looked really healthy, happy, dancing away and a good vibe. Then we looked at a recent gig; no-one dancing, all the faces drawn and no smiles. Awkward body movements and no atmosphere atall. The changes have been real with drastic real effects.

There is a whole bad vibe around now, all over. I know why! Everyone is being too hammered in too many ways.

This is going nowhere. Just making everyone ill under the hammer.

Just an observation.

ps. We have cases of rickets in Wales. This is found in young people and is a bone deformation which was once common among the peasants of old. It is due to lack of vitamins and proper diet. To see this returning makes me fully aware of the impact current policies are having. It is real and very scary, because it shows a complete lack of care and regard for citizens by the State.

reply to post by av8r007


Ah, you did not say they found the information they were looking for. In that case it does sound wrong. I was under the impression that you expected them to go on your word about who you were.

However, why not hand over your ID if you have it on you. Its a simple task and shows common courtesy towards the officer. Again unless you were hiding something I cant understand why you were making a fuss

reply to post by Revolution9


Well, we are under constant assault by the tyrannical members of our society. And lately, they appear to be winning. It's common knowledge that while our Supreme Court may have ruled against a certain police activity, you should understand that if your local police department chooses to arrest you for that same activity, you'll maybe beat the charge, but you will not beat the ride/stay in jail. The police know they will rarely be fired, let alone charged.

Even in states where it is legal to resist a false/illegal arrest, you'll be lucky to escape unharmed. Our government has a near 100% monopoly on force. We're expected to submit to their demands without resistance or face beatings/imprisonment/death.

Regardless, the UK may not be a keystone of brutality, but your police and prosecutors still make some terrible decisions on a routine basis. I've read about people being arrested for simply using deadly force to protect themselves and their families from others using deadly force. However, it does seem that these prosecutions have become rarer since your people have elected a more "conservative" government. The riots of the last few months were only a recent example of the BS that goes on in the UK.

With all of the above being said, it's not impossible to lead a normal, unobstructed life in the US. The most dangerous situations most of us get in are being pulled over by the police for a perceived traffic violation. March in order and obey without question, and you'll be fine. =\

reply to post by xrevxoltx


Since we had a change (sic) of government, this issue is starting to be a little clearer, we have had a couple of cases recently where someone broke into premises and have discovered a owner/tennant who is not afraid to stand up to them. The do do has hit the fan and said lowlife has come off worse ie life now expired, granted they arrest the owner /tennant but have dropped the charges after the facts have been sorted ie dead person broke in shouldn't have been there.