On France

Here's a very interesting question:

Is it possible for 5POF to involve himself in a discussion without his F-M characteristics leeching out and poisoning the debate?

Tic...Toc...Tic...Toc...

My vote is...

I'm not interested in your USA all the way attitude, as a matter of fact, I find your continuous string of insults and name calling to other members of this community an insult to my nation and no insult to those at whom your words are targeted. You are an embarrassment. Stop it now.

He really isn't the world's best at camouflage, is he, Thos.
The same approach: the long list of ostensibly factual, hence potentially verifiable, points which - when colleagues challenge the drivel- the poster makes no attempt to verify, and then uses the challenge as a trigger for offensive diatribes of minimal originality and even less wit.
I for one welcome "America all the way" postings: the position of "my country right or wrong", if sincerely held, is a position of considerable ethical and philosophical interest: especially to those who disagree with it.
But such postings, and any others, become merely an irritating waste of bandwidth when posted as provocatory drivel or infantile insolence.
There is no banning of ideas here; but we very properly reserve the right to ban deliberate offensiveness and the lack of any ideas. It's a forum not a lavatory wall.

Dom how is Camp X-Ray a disgrace to America?

It's by far been a humane way to deal with vermine.

5POF

What...I have a legitimate reason to ask.

Dom is obviously confused about Camp-Xray.

It is humane, they even have signs pointing the way to mecca. HOW HUMANE IS THAT!? Even their religious requirements are fulfilled.

The question is not whose position in fact is more accurate. The attempts to make Camp X-Ray appear inhumane are ludicrous and ill-informed. But the manner in which you go about engaging your counterpart makes my clumsy and sometimes offensive mannerism appear to be almost as nice and non-offensive as Saph's demeanor.

As Estragon accurately pointed out, ideas thoughts and concepts are not to be stifled here, but we are expected to conduct ourselves with proper restraint. We all slip, we all fall short, at one time or another, in showing each other proper respect, but you seem to have no qualms at insulting at first opportunity. That is why I fear the clock is ticking for you - again. Your identity has not been a secret, the hope that the new character would afford you a second chance was why you have been allowed time here. You seem to be wasting it.

I don't believe that any person afforded a second chance here has ever used it wisely.

I will offer a bit of advice that might help you. When you read a post that disturbs you and you write your response, wait a minute, read your response, and then delete that which is an insult. I have to do it all the time. It's the only reason I haven't been thrown out on my keyster.

ugh you know, we should have an "issues" discussion group.

Now that you bring up "Saphroina".

Sure she's nice, and sweet, but sometimes she's DEAD wrong, and just because she's nice and I'm not they buy into it.

Well here's a shocker, Hitler was nice too...but my god was he wrong. (But take note I'm not comparing Saph to hitler in her level of wrongness by no means, I'm just comparing that you should not accept someone's ideas as being factually based, unless they REALLY are.)

And yes I admit now that I'm not always right either, but no one seems to want to point it out, they just fall into a spiral of "bar you idiot" pattern that I do.

My 11 points, are all correct, and again I'm not going to refute them to those who posted again, 11 counter-points.

Because they are correct...go look them up for yourself.

As for Dom, he's shown exceptional ignorance on the issue of the French.

He now says Camp X-ray is a disgrace to America, well then I say we all agree with him, and just go ahead and Execute those prisoners right now.

Sure is cheaper than paying for them.

k...put some issues on the board to not be discussed, but that's a weight off the chest...

Now, back to France.

I again urge you to read about the "Vichy" government.

A few facts about what happend in France during WW2.

1) French forces in France escaped to Britain.

2) French forces in Africa returned to France and became a military administration of Vichy France.

3) French forces in Britain, later returned in 1942, to Vichy France, under Nazi control.

WHAT THE FU.CK!

let's read #3 again.

3) French forces in Britain, later returned in 1942, to Vichy France, under Nazi control.

Now that's not ALL of the French forces.

But the bulk of the fleet and many troops RETURNED to Vichy France.

Yeah some allies....

The French yet again I shall say...Can kiss my @ss.

[Edited on 7-4-2003 by 5POF]

Scream and shot against France, Germany and Europe...
IRAQ is getting the XXI century Vietnam...

[Edited on 7-4-2003 by Nans DESMICHELS]

I can only assume that means Iraq is going to be the XXI century Vietnam.

Most untrue...for you see, we already kicked Saddam's butt, he's probably already dead.

And his people more or less love us.

And Nans, surely you know about the Vichy France, you can't run from it!

I'd have to say that I still disagree with Camp X-Ray. Why is it based in Guantanamo Bay, outside of the United States, if there's nothing to worry about? Could it be because the US law courts might actually find the prisoners treatment to be unacceptable? Do you think?

These guys haven't even been found guilty of anything. Indeed your country has already released quite a few of them because they don't actually have anything to do with terrorism. So that's only 12 months incarceration and interrogation with no access to lawyers from the US government. What a great way to breed goodwill towards the US! Idiots!

Anyway, as far as France goes, accept that France wanted to see the inspections through. Once the inspections were completed, that was the time to have a face off. Bringing the deadline forwards was a silly thing to do by the US. It wasn't just France that had issues with the second resolution, it was also Russia, China, and a majority of the security council (even after the US tried to buy every single undecided vote).

By 5POF
Well let's see.

France did the following:

1) Supported Nazism by not fighting it (French Resistance was 95% Jewish immigrants sent to work in the factories, 3% mountain peoples from Itally and French border, and 2% french).

2) They have more whores than the rest of the world combined.

3) Last time my Grandma was there, they still were using 3sided toilets on the side walks which consisted of 3 curtains facing the road and two other ways, the way facing the side walk was open and you would crap or piss in a hole in the ground.

4) They lie, oh how they lie. They try to say the Iraqi Liberation is all about oil, yeah...FRENCH OIL! They're losing 60billion dollars in deals with Saddam.

5) Can I stress enough that they did nothing to end NAZISM?

6) They spat on our soldiers as we poured in through Normandy.

7) They desecrated the Normandy Cemetaries.

8) They've done almost nothing for JUSTICE, even to the point of killing their ONLY saviour, Joan of Arc.

9) They are the whole reason Vietnam is Communist. Ho Chi Min came to America and asked for our aid to fight against the French, and he would model his government after ours. Because we were "allies with the French" we refused, which ended up in 50,000 more American deaths. All thanks to the worthless French.

10) They killed two popes in the late 1200s and put a puppet pope into power "Pope Clement V". And thus destroyed the Knights Templar.

11) They tried to take over Europe with "Napoleon". Killing, hundreds of thousands.

12) And their prisons are beyond reproach. Worse than anything in Camp X-ray.

The French as a nation can kiss my butt. They have a lot of "Civilizing" left to do.

KKK I sence.
Are you Texan?
You stupid fool, I agree with you that France should not be opposed to the War on Iraq. Though your points are very racist. The past stays in the past.
On your points.
1) Where do you get you figures from?
2) What and the U.S.A. don't have any. Right?
3) You assosiated Whores with Grandma? Your words.
4) FBI, CIA Lies? What Lies?
5) They couln't. With what Armed Forces? They had none then. Though they do now.
6) Do you have proof. No didn't think so. Back up words with Facts.
7) How do you know there French? They could have been Germans, Italians or Turks or even Luxumburgans!
8) You mean "Justice and the American Way" right? Tell me about justice in America.
9) Who was smart in that conflict? Vietnam was a waste.
10) Did you just read that in a book? Your bringing up things that happened 1000 years ago mate. There was no U.S.A. in the 1200's.
11) And so did Rome B.C., the Mongols in the 700's and the Germans in the 1940's, so what's new. U.S.A in the Future? Maybe not.
Think Man, Think!


[Edited on 7-4-2003 by barba007]

No they don't want Constitutional Rights being given to these Terrorists by "greedy lawyers".

You're from Britain right? I'm not sure how it is over there.

But here in America, the Robbers sue the Grannies that they were going to rob, for cutting themselves on the windows they broke.

The last thing we need is the Terrorists suing america for blowing up their training camps.

Quite far from the KKK dear.

I just don't like Nazi Supporters getting a free ride on the good ol' Freedom Train, and then finally now, at this most crucial time, deciding they're going to seperate the car and be dicks.

France, in my honest opinion. Are Nazis, and the last surviving Nazis at that.

They are still VERY Anti-Semetic.

They are SUPER nationalist (beyond reason for a country with no real power).

And as you see, in WW2, they did everything BUT declare War on the Allies.

They are a powder keg waiting for that swastika to fly above the Eifel Tower once more.

And if it doesn't happen it is only because they have enough commonsense to realize, hatred isn't the way, and they have so little Aryan in them, that Nazism makes no sense.

But if you haven't noticed, France and Germany are becomming like "Peas in a Pod".

The powder keg is ready to blow.

[Edited on 7-4-2003 by 5POF]

I don't see how these "greedy lawyers" are going to be making very much money from a bunch of peasants/terrorists.

Some of the people detained in Camp X-Ray are actually members of the Afghan military (The Taliban). According to the Geneva conventions these people have to be repatriated to Afghanistan once the war is over (because they're military troops), but if you want to make them illegal combatants there has to be a tribunal set up within the laws of the geneva conventions.

The Taliban were obviously the legitimate government, no matter how #ty they were, this is shown by the fact that the US government talked with them when it wanted to build an oil pipeline through the country. Why talk to them if they're not the legitimate government?!?

Anyway, with the US abusing human rights left, right and center, what gives them the right to preach to the rest of the world about it? You can't abuse human rights laws and then claim to be the worlds defender of human rights. Just doesn't make sense.

Hang on; every body saw "The Patriot". Didn't the French help America win the War of Independence? Is this true?

dom you know nothing about Afghanistan for saying that its army was the "Taliban.

"The Afghan Military" is not THE TALIBAN.

Perhaps you should open up a history book. I was first introduced to the REAL HISTORY of Afghanistan, not this "Taliban is a country" crap that is often mistaken for it, in a National Geographic.

Brief history begining just before Afghan war.

Monarch wants to democraticize Afghanistan.

Monarch creates "congress" out of the "warlords" from all the lands.

USSR send in communist sympahtizers and agitators, who eventually get a communist movement going on in the fledgling Congress.

Congress falls to peices, Monarch flees and Russia eventually invades to help the communist sympathizers.

Afghan war ends, Taliban invades.

Afghan army retreats and later becomes the "northern alliance".

Taliban enforces its views upon the people of Afghanistan.

America kicks out the terrorist Taliban.

Northern Alliance re-establishes a National Army, and Kabul becomes a center for re-establishing law and education.

Sorry I'm Aussie. I know little of American History. Though I know a bit.

Excellent question Barba007!!!!!

Not the same French.

That was before the First French Revolution.

Where their First Republic was formed (right?) and then quickly fell to Napoleon into an Empire.

Then this would fall and a second Republic came about (right?)

Which later fell to Nazism, and after WW2, would be rebuilt as the (3rd Republic?).

Is this a good summary any french people, of the history of your republics?

I never regaurded the Monarchal French as really being the "political views" of the French today.

Those past french helped USA...but now they are being stuck up because their "ideals" have changed due to an introduction (or survival) rather, of Anti-Semitism, and Communism.

I think they, politically, are a mess, and have no direction, just as long as they are going against America.

This is the first time they've showed disagreement with America.

They were very Pro-Soviet Union through out the Cold War.

Yes but always FRENCH. They still speak French in France don't they?
Don't get me wrong; I'm absolutely not a French sympathiser, though I find your views extremist. If you met a French person in the streets of NY would you repeat what you just stated on this site?