Germany Readies Surrender in Fight to Save Greece

Germany may be getting ready to give up on Greece, as measures in the credit markets signal growing concern about the smaller nation’s ability to repay investors.

Yields on Greek two-year notes rose 1.93 percentage points to 57 percent on Sept. 9, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. Credit-default swaps to insure the country’s five- year bonds and to speculate on government securities jumped 475 basis points to a record 3,500 basis points, according to CMA. The contracts are the highest in the world and more than three times the 1,134 basis points on Portugal’s debt.

After almost two years of fighting to contain the region’s debt crisis and providing the biggest share of three European bailouts, German Chancellor Angela Merkel is laying the groundwork for what markets say is almost a sure thing: a Greek default.

“It feels like Germany is preparing itself for a debt default,” Jacques Cailloux, chief European economist at Royal Bank of Scotland Group Plc in London, said in an interview. “Fatigue is setting in. Germany could be a first mover or other countries could be preparing too.”

Source

Well I think there are many people out there who saw this coming eventually. It had to happen sooner or later really. They cannot continue to throw money at a problem that is so deeply rooted in the Euro zone. So is this the beginning? Does this mean that they are going to stop bailing out the other failing countries if they come to ask for aid? Is this the end of the Euro as we know it? All questions that immediately popped into my head when I read this and pondered the implications of them allowing Greece to fall.

What comes next then in the collapse of domino's? Will this be the domino that triggers the collapse?

ETA: Emphasis is mine.

This is the beginning of something larger.
much larger.

Once these countries go into open revolt here you will have a new war zone with perpetual conflict.

I'm willing to bet they are making constant turmoil around the world to scare us enough into begging for a world govt.

Doesn't the euro collapsing strengthen the dollar? Wouldn't that also mean that the price of gold is going to go down? I mean as the dollar strengthens...?

Originally posted by metaldemon2000
This is the beginning of something larger.
much larger.

edit on 11/9/11 by metaldemon2000 because: (no reason given)

That my friend I think is the understatement of the century if it does in fact come to pass.

Originally posted by onequestion
Doesn't the euro collapsing strengthen the dollar? Wouldn't that also mean that the price of gold is going to go down? I mean as the dollar strengthens...?

edit on 11-9-2011 by onequestion because: (no reason given)

Since gold is traded globally the dollars temporary increase would have little to no negative effect on it. I think gold would soar to new highs, and quickly.

reply to post by SpaDe_


It would only be negative impact depending on how your looking at it. If your looking at it from an investing in gold standpoint, then yeah... but if your looking at it from an American stance in the global economy... then good...

Yes, Germany is definitely preparing for Greece's potential bankruptcy.

German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schäuble, who is reportedly doubtful that the country can be saved from bankruptcy, is preparing for the possibility of Greek insolvency. Officials in his ministry are currently reviewing scenarios for handling such a situation, exploring what it might mean for the rest of the euro zone. Under the first scenario for a Greek bankruptcy, the country would remain in the euro zone. Under the other, Athens would abandon the common currency and reintroduce the drachma.

Source: www.spiegel.de...

Personally, I feel the fact that they are even discussing it openly is a bad sign for Greece. The global house of cards is about to be shaken to it's foundation.

When I was a kid, we had a really old barn on our property that we used to store hay and every year we had to keep doing things to repair it to keep it from collapsing but it was much easier than building a new one. One year, my dad said 'it's done, it's served it's purpose, time to tear it down and start over, it will probably not last another year no matter what we do to repair it again'.

Smart men know when it's time to give up and start from scratch......

I'm honestly not sure what their game is.. or even what the next step will be.. what seems like logic isn't the path we appear to be on while common sense doesn't seem to be part of the equation.. so I can not help but wonder what their game really is and where we really are going.

With a Greek default, the Euro will take a hit, however the one to watch is not the dollar but CNY. Any gain by the dollar will only be temporary as it will then resume its decline. Germany and France will throw Greece to the wolves and cut their losses as much as possible. Opening the way for the CNY to make a substantial gain. The only remaining question is; Which piig is next?

reply to post by metaldemon2000


Well thats another reason for Serbia,Bosnia,Croatia not to join the EU Union what are they gain from them? nothing but misery andd more pain not mention all the countries i mentioned have the biggest unemployment rate in all EU.

Germany has tried to enslave Greece by selling it loans to pay previous loans. This has to be war, because Greeks will never surrender to this dirty logic. Balkan countries are too smart to fall into German hands again.

France may have amnesia (its banks are already falling because of joining in with Germany). Was France really an Ally during WWII?

Right now, France is doing the same thing Mussolini did - conquering Libya. This will not end well for Europe.

Originally posted by DangerDeath
Germany has tried to enslave Greece by selling it loans to pay previous loans. This has to be war, because Greeks will never surrender to this dirty logic. Balkan countries are too smart to fall into German hands again.

I hate to burst your bubble, but we already did surrender. Our corrupt politicians certainly did, we accepted a strange coup d' etat where suddenly a technocrat, Goldman-Sachs golden boy and most crucially managing director of the Bank of Greece during the crucial time before and shortly after being allowed into the Eurozone in 2001 and after we had failed to join the Euro in 1999, became prime minister in center-left, center-right and far right (borderline faschist) coalition. How did we finally do it? Same as everybody else, including Germany, by cooking the books, by creating a huge bubble in the Greek stock market, where in just 1-2 years the market index skyrocketed from under 1000 to a high 7000 at it's height. The then "Socialist" government of Kostas Simitis encouraged everybody to join the speculation and gamble and since we are very prone to gambling anyway many did in the hopes to invest their live savings and get a huge profit return. Alas, when the bubble burst a lot of people had lost a lot of money, many even all their live savings and were suddenly really, really poor again. The other trick was with the help of Goldman-Sachs a credit swap deal which allowed us to present to our EU partners a budget deficit of marginally over 3%. Good enough said everybody and we were welcomed to the Eurozone. Sarkozy's comment that it was a mistake to allow us in is hypocritical, because everybody knew we had cooked the books, how we had done it and they even aided us especially in the great money grab at the Athens Stock Market. Among others it was the German Deutsche Bank that started investing in Greek stocks and gave the index it's first significant push above 1000 then 1500 and finally 2000 when the gambling frenzy started. Our corrupt "socialist" politicians did the rest.
France may have amnesia (its banks are already falling because of joining in with Germany). Was France really an Ally during WWII?

Originally posted by DangerDeath
Right now, France is doing the same thing Mussolini did - conquering Libya. This will not end well for Europe.

I think you are confusing Libya with Ethopia. If memory serves me right Mussolini conquered Ethiopia before WWII not Libya. Anyway, back to the Greeks and the Balkans. There are certainly interesting times ahead. You are right about one thing, we are a very proud people and if the EU and the IMF pushes us past a certain limit there will be certainly more violent protests. What you have seen so far is nothing. It's the usual clashes between radical Anarchist and the police that are very common whenever there is a major strike and demonstration in Athens. But trust me when we start hearing of ever more people dying due to starvation or the cold in winter because they cannot afford to buy food or petrol for central heating the riots will become more frequent and will escalate. Already there are first reports of school children fainting in class due to malnutrition. Can you imagine kids dying of hunger? It will be another burn down Athens time, but this time it won't last only a day or two as usual and probably not even just a month like 2 years ago then some cops killed a 15 year old boy in Athens, but probably over much longer time periods. Inevitably martial law and perhaps a repeat of a dictatorship (1967-1974).

War? I don't think so. Civil war maybe. There is one very pessimistic scenario in my mind of war in Europe or even WWIII and that is if Greece is allowed to default and then the domino effect sets in, Italy defaults, Spain defaults, Portugal defaults, Ireland defaults. Who's next? France and finally the heart of the beast: Germany. By then the whole world will be probably in deep economic chaos and then those who run the show behind the scenes might just decide that it is much better to have another World War so start all over with a clean slate of debt and much to rebuild which as the 50ties have shown makes for great economic boom and prosperity.