Speaking in TheTongues.

Originally posted by IlluminatusOculus33

Originally posted by Artorius
reply to post by IlluminatusOculus33

 

When I've spoke in tongues its usually to myself. Iv'e heard people just go off and start babbling and like Paul said, its pointless for the benefit of the listeners. From the speakers perspective, it fills you with joy and strength (at least in my experiences) so its not pointless to them. I've also heard people speak it then decipher an awesome word straight from God. Sometimes it is genuinely uncontrollable when the Holy Spirit's presence is strong then again, some people want attention so you must use wisdom.

edit on 1-9-2011 by Artorius because: (no reason given)

How do you know it's from the Holy Spirit and not demons? Convulsing and rolling around and shaking looks like demon possession to me.

I might get excited/ jump a little bit/dance/shake but rarely to that extent lol. People who act like that usually want attention this is true but sometimes the Holy Spirit can fill you up and blow your mind...people tend to go a little crazy when that happens in a good way. If they look like idiots to anyone why does that matter? They are having the time of their lives rejoicing in God!! Let them be ...The difference between feeling something from God or the devil is the emotions that come with the action. When you're in the presence of the Holy Spirit, joy/peace/zeal/understanding/awe overcome you.Demons want to make you feel the total opposite sadness/confusion/prideful/angry/lustful/fearful. That's how I know its not them because I only feel positive emotions and the power of God... their main goal is to draw us away from God through these emotions. Letting pride or fear of what you look like to others hold you back during worship will rob you of a possible life changing or simply rejuvenating experience. That's what the demons want more than anything else....

Originally posted by Artorius

Originally posted by IlluminatusOculus33

Originally posted by Artorius
reply to post by IlluminatusOculus33

 

When I've spoke in tongues its usually to myself. Iv'e heard people just go off and start babbling and like Paul said, its pointless for the benefit of the listeners. From the speakers perspective, it fills you with joy and strength (at least in my experiences) so its not pointless to them. I've also heard people speak it then decipher an awesome word straight from God. Sometimes it is genuinely uncontrollable when the Holy Spirit's presence is strong then again, some people want attention so you must use wisdom.

edit on 1-9-2011 by Artorius because: (no reason given)

How do you know it's from the Holy Spirit and not demons? Convulsing and rolling around and shaking looks like demon possession to me.

I might get excited/ jump a little bit/dance/shake but rarely to that extent lol. People who act like that usually want attention this is true but sometimes the Holy Spirit can fill you up and blow your mind...people tend to go a little crazy when that happens in a good way. If they look like idiots to anyone why does that matter? They are having the time of their lives rejoicing in God!! Let them be ...The difference between feeling something from God or the devil is the emotions that come with the action. When you're in the presence of the Holy Spirit, joy/peace/zeal/understanding/awe overcome you.Demons want to make you feel the total opposite sadness/confusion/prideful/angry/lustful/fearful. That's how I know its not them because I only feel positive emotions and the power of God... their main goal is to draw us away from God through these emotions. Letting pride or fear of what you look like to others hold you back during worship will rob you of a possible life changing or simply rejuvenating experience. That's what the demons want more than anything else....

edit on 1-9-2011 by Artorius because: (no reason given)

Ok so heres a question to either of you. Do you truly feel/know that demons are real? I mean are there actual demonic entities roaming the lands ( albeit invisibly) looking for souls to corrupt and drag to hell? or are they more of a psychological manifestation of a person deep psyche, wether it be damaged/traumatized or not, that shows itself in unusual ways? For me being a newly reborn christian I find it hard to beleive that actual intellignt and evil beings are out to get us. I belive ther IS evil, but honestly I feel it is more of a human invention/concept than it is so much a supernatural idea. What would you have to say to that?

reply to post by dreadphil

Do you truly feel/know that demons are real? I mean are there actual demonic entities roaming the lands ( albeit invisibly) looking for souls to corrupt and drag to hell?

I had that happen to me once, where five demons came up through the floor and grabbed me and pulled me down to hell.
So, yes, there are demons and they want us to not just die but in a permanent way, being condemned forever to hell. The reason being that they stand condemned themselves and hope to have their sentence lessened somewhat by showing God the massive numbers of people who would have to suffer along with them, being also transgressors of the law.

reply to post by jmdewey60


ok now wait a minute. you say that you litterally were dragged down to hell by 5 demons that came up thru the floor? Ok some questions for you then.. first of all how did you escape? why 5 demons and not more or less? What was it like in hell? smells. emotions, physical feelings? temperature? was there light to see? do you have any physical scars? What did the demons look like? had u imbided any drugs and/or alchohol ( I ask this repectfully and in sincerity). Did these demons say anything to you? Where in hell were you?(pun not intended) what did it look like? Did u see Satan? were there any more damned souls? were u tortured? Im not intentionally making light of this..but you MUST admit this is a truly extraordinary claim..was there a sense of direction and/or spatial awareness there? were there sounds? were you hot or cold? were you hungry or thirsty?how long were you there? Did you see angels or god or jesus? did you see relatives or friends? sorry to hit you with a flurry of questions but as I said, extraordinary!!

Originally posted by dreadphil
reply to post by jmdewey60

 

ok now wait a minute. you say that you litterally were dragged down to hell by 5 demons that came up thru the floor? Ok some questions for you then.. first of all how did you escape? why 5 demons and not more or less? What was it like in hell? smells. emotions, physical feelings? temperature? was there light to see? do you have any physical scars? What did the demons look like? had u imbided any drugs and/or alchohol ( I ask this repectfully and in sincerity). Did these demons say anything to you? Where in hell were you?(pun not intended) what did it look like? Did u see Satan? were there any more damned souls? were u tortured? Im not intentionally making light of this..but you MUST admit this is a truly extraordinary claim..was there a sense of direction and/or spatial awareness there? were there sounds? were you hot or cold? were you hungry or thirsty?how long were you there? Did you see angels or god or jesus? did you see relatives or friends? sorry to hit you with a flurry of questions but as I said, extraordinary!!

No friends or relatives. Seems it was people showing up so it was whoever had come soon before and soon after I did, who were the people I met and talked to. I would not say that anyone was necessarily damned so much as just recently deceased. There was no torture going that I was aware of. I did not see Satan and if I did see angels there, they would have been distant to where I could not make them out well. It felt like I may have been there a long time up to two months, gauging by events, but there was no sun, moon, or stars, or day and night, to be able to tell time. It was as if I was in a high vaulted room that was so big that the ceiling would have been in the fuzzy distance. I mean if there was no features to it and it was just a smooth dome, you would not be able to judge its distance. So there was an ambient light without an apparent source. I never felt hungry or thirsty and the general mood there seemed to be resignation verging on apathy but with an overriding sense of bewilderment.
I was on a probably low dosage of Xanax which is a sort of tranquilizer, at the time when this happened. I had what is called a main-line which is a conduit pushed through a main artery like a subclavian or the Jugular vein that goes into one of the main heart chambers, so I was living on whatever that solution was that was being metered through that set-up and was not eating or drinking other than a cup of tea a day.
There was one each demon for each of my limbs and one that held my head. That one went behind me to get a hold and the others I could watch and they looked rough and medium to dark brown and hairy and large and like claws at the ends of their fingers and they had sort of devil horns which matched the color of their hair. They seemed to be dressed in something that looked like course woven wool that was raggedly looking as if they were made with parts pieced together with the edges and corners just hanging loose a bit. Their feet where not visible and their lower legs never quite fully materialized, as if they were still partially in another world where they came from. I felt their claws dig into me as they pulled me and for an instant, I was watching myself from the ceiling at the back wall behind me as they pulled me down through the floor where they had come up from. Then I fell and fell down a mostly dark tunnel until I thought I must be in the center of the earth.

Originally posted by IlluminatusOculus33
Now, brothers and sisters, if I come to you and speak in tongues, what good will I be to you, unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or word of instruction? Even in the case of lifeless things that make sounds, such as the pipe or harp, how will anyone know what tune is being played unless there is a distinction in the notes? Again, if the trumpet does not sound a clear call, who will get ready for battle? So it is with you. Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are saying? You will just be speaking into the air. Undoubtedly there are all sorts of languages in the world, yet none of them is without meaning. If then I do not grasp the meaning of what someone is saying, I am a foreigner to the speaker, and the speaker is a foreigner to me. So it is with you. Since you are eager for gifts of the Spirit, try to excel in those that build up the church. -1 Corinthians 14:6-12

But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue. -1 Corinthians 14:19

So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in tongues, and inquirers or unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are out of your mind? -1 Corinthians 14:23

If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and to God. -1 Corinthians 14:27-28

Basically the Apostle Paul says it's better to give clear instructions and not some incoherent babbling. When someone speaks in tongues another has to be able to interpret it. The speaking in tongues movement doesn't do any of that. They just randomly say gibberish that has no meaning. Like Paul said it makes them sound crazy when the whole congregation does it. Pentecostals tend to ignore what Paul taught.

Hah, so true. I used to be pentecostal and i've seen that happen. I'm missionary baptist now, and when the Holy Spirit gives me a message it comes out as visions in my mind and i speak what i see in plain old english.

Really guys?!?!?! Do people still really think "tonuges" are an unknown heavenly language that no one can understand?!??!?!

I thought I had cleared this up months ago.... Tonuges are a sign that was used in the early days of Christianity. They are no longer present.

Tonuges are NOT unknown heavenly languages...they are SIMPLY a DIFFERENT language like chinese, Russian, english...that the speaker did not know at the time they were speaking it!!!!!!

For the love of God people, if you are in church and everyone there speaks english, then God would be stupid to sent the message in another language!!! Hints why in the early years there was a translator of the tonuge that was spoken.

Read Acts 2 for your example as there was people from ALL over the world present that all heard Peters message in THEIR OWN TONUGE!! come on already you bunch of feeling happy, fleshly peoples

Read 1 Corinthians 14 again.

P.s. I could care less about my spelling or grammar in this rant.

When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.

Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven. When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard their own language being spoken. Utterly amazed, they asked: “Aren’t all these who are speaking Galileans? Then how is it that each of us hears them in our native language? Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome (both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabs—we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!” Amazed and perplexed, they asked one another, “What does this mean?” -Acts 2:1-12

During Pentecost the Holy Spirit when it enabled the Apostle to speak in tongues you can clearly see it shows speaking in tongues meant foreign languages that were coherent and fluent so the foreigners and visitors understood what is being said.

The Apostle never spoke random gibberish like the Pentecostal movement does. It's not scriptural.

reply to post by IlluminatusOculus33


Thank you very much IlluminatusOculus33 for basically spelling this error out to people. I wanted them to look it up themselfs so I only posted Acts 2 without the text, but you took the extra step and hand fed it to them.....which seems to be the only way to make people understand anything, anymore...

reply to post by KJV1611


Sounds like you are bitter about this, as a person of god why does this make you sound so?

reply to post by dreadphil


As a saved Christian and born again Child of God, I am more than Bitter about TONS of things! I down right hate many things, and people. I can't stand sin or the flesh....and for that matter I can't stand my own self half the time BECAUSE of my useless flesh!

But the point is, I can, should, and will be ANGER over much more than just this issue, as I am commanded to be according to the Holy Bible. I am not mad at you however, as you are just seeking answers here. So I am sorry if I may have seemed mad at you. I am not, I am only mad at the foolishness of tonuges.

Originally posted by KJV1611
reply to post by dreadphil

 

As a saved Christian and born again Child of God, I am more than Bitter about TONS of things! I down right hate many things, and people. I can't stand sin or the flesh....and for that matter I can't stand my own self half the time BECAUSE of my useless flesh!

But the point is, I can, should, and will be ANGER over much more than just this issue, as I am commanded to be according to the Holy Bible. I am not mad at you however, as you are just seeking answers here. So I am sorry if I may have seemed mad at you. I am not, I am only mad at the foolishness of tonuges.

Child of God, yes but which one? The Most high God or the God of this Air? Child of Christ, NO. Jesus taught to love your enemies as you loved your neighbors, and he taught forgiveness and to turn the other cheek and to pray for those whom offend you. Jesus was never about hating anyone or anything. Hate has never been what Jesus Christ was about. You do not have to like the ways of the world, and so you should set yourself apart from it, but if you eat from the fruit of hate you are no different than they are.

Luke: 9, 54:56

54When His disciples James and John saw this, they said, “Lord, do You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them?” 55But He turned and rebuked them, [and said, “You do not know what kind of spirit you are of; 56for the Son of Man did not come to destroy men’s lives, but to save them.”] And they went on to another village.

I am a child of Christ. Jesus was the word made flesh, he is the Christ. He whom was immanu'el, "God in the flesh amoung us", he made the world, but was not of the world, and the world knew him not. This is my God and my King.

Originally posted by KJV1611
reply to post by dreadphil

 

As a saved Christian and born again Child of God, I am more than Bitter about TONS of things! I down right hate many things, and people. I can't stand sin or the flesh....and for that matter I can't stand my own self half the time BECAUSE of my useless flesh!

But the point is, I can, should, and will be ANGER over much more than just this issue, as I am commanded to be according to the Holy Bible. I am not mad at you however, as you are just seeking answers here. So I am sorry if I may have seemed mad at you. I am not, I am only mad at the foolishness of tonuges.

Righteous indignation is fine, but I think you may have crossed the line.

Do not be alarmed, It is written that all of these things would come to pass.


2TI 4: 3 For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.

Concerning tongues (Why would a pastor have an altar call so that people can speak in tongues? Why not rather encourage the spiritual gifts that build up the church!):



1CO 14:6 Now, brothers, if I come to you and speak in tongues, what good will I be to you, unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or word of instruction? Even in the case of lifeless things that make sounds, such as the flute or harp, how will anyone know what tune is being played unless there is a distinction in the notes? Again, if the trumpet does not sound a clear call, who will get ready for battle? So it is with you. Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are saying? You will just be speaking into the air. Undoubtedly there are all sorts of languages in the world, yet none of them is without meaning. If then I do not grasp the meaning of what someone is saying, I am a foreigner to the speaker, and he is a foreigner to me. So it is with you. Since you are eager to have spiritual gifts, try to excel in gifts that build up the church.

1CO 14:13 For this reason anyone who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may interpret what he says. For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my mind; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my mind. If you are praising God with your spirit, how can one who finds himself among those who do not understand say "Amen" to your thanksgiving, since he does not know what you are saying? You may be giving thanks well enough, but the other man is not edified.

1CO 14:18 I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue.



Special gifts do not = salvation:


MT 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me, `Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, `Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, `I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

Well i remember in my pentecostal days people speaking tongues that sounded like foolish gibberish. Sounded kinda like this: "shobolobo, dadada, shaldadad sheeee he lo heee, shebo la do dee" and i often wondered who they were talking to because there was no one in my church that spoke that language because were all white americans and that was clearly the language of gobbledygook. Clearly as Paul said it sounded like nonsense and was meaningless for there was no one there that could understand that message. I'm not saying it couldnt have been real but according to scripture that was make believe.

reply to post by IlluminatusOculus33


HAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAA ~!~

Originally posted by KJV1611
reply to post by dreadphil

 

As a saved Christian and born again Child of God, I am more than Bitter about TONS of things! I down right hate many things, and people. I can't stand sin or the flesh....and for that matter I can't stand my own self half the time BECAUSE of my useless flesh!

But the point is, I can, should, and will be ANGER over much more than just this issue, as I am commanded to be according to the Holy Bible. I am not mad at you however, as you are just seeking answers here. So I am sorry if I may have seemed mad at you. I am not, I am only mad at the foolishness of tonuges.

Are you a Baptist? They're big on thinking they are worthless (all righteousness is like filthy rags as the oft quoted verse) and that God will destroy them on a whim. They are very cult like.

The flesh is neutral it depends on what you yourself do it that makes it pure or impure.

reply to post by XplanetX, lonewolf19792000, IlluminatusOculus33


(Read all this, its short and will be good for your Christian growth)

Come on now guys, you three claim to be Christians but you have no idea on how God feels about things, much less how Christians should feel

I stand correct in being ANGRY over many different things, including tongues and false doctrines:

EPHESIANS 4:26 "Be ye ANGRY, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:"
I obey this verse, do you?

And yes, it is perfectly fine to HATE things, even people. Once again, lack of the mind of God has driving modern Christians into being lukewarm pansies:

Psalms 26:5
"I have HATED the congregation of evil doers; and will not sit with the wicked."
Do you? Well, you should.

Psalms 31:6
"I have HATED them that regard lying vanities: but I trust in the LORD."
Prime example of tongues..... plus TONS of other false doctrines, or as the Bible puts it: lying vanities.

Come on now Laodiceans, don't you know even God hates plenty of things? even people? (God is a VERY good hater...)

Proverbs 6:16-19
"16 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren. "
Notices now....all these things that the Lord hates...are parts of a HUMAN being? Heck, verse 19 comes right out and says it, God HATES a "false witness"....known as a lier...Psalms 31:6 maybe?

That not enough? Here is a little New Testament doctrine for you:

Romans 9:13
"As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau HAVE I HATED."
yepp...

Psalms 5:5
"The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity. "
Well now...if God happens to look at you, he better see Jesus Christ, or you are in for a world of hurt...Good thing Jesus is my mediator

Psalms 11:5
"The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth. "
Amen, Aman, and Aa-man!

Hosea 9:15
"All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I hated them: for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of mine house, I will love them no more: all their princes are revolters. "
You can bet your next dollar on that buddy! And the Lord will do it again when he returns in the Second Advent and SLAUGHTERS over 200 million UN troops at the battle of Armagadon! What, do you think he LOVES those people He is about to kill in Revelation 19-20? (God is a good hater...and warrior. Exodus 15:3 "The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name. "

So you say, God doesn't hate the sinner, he just hates the sin...right..? Wrong. If he just hated the sin...then why would he cast the SINNER into hell...? You young Christians need to grow up and eat some strong meat. Don't be pansies.

Always remember God does NOT love this world, nor the people in it

John 3:16
"For God so LOVED the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

Notice LOVED is past tensed? Well I did if you didn't. God loved this world so much that he sent his Son to us......soooooo, anyone care to guess what we did with his Son when he arrived? I'll give you one guess, not two. And if you want the words from Jesus's own mouth, here they are in the next post:

What God will do to this world because we killed his Son:

MARK 12:1-12

1 And he began to speak unto them by parables. A certain man planted a vineyard, and set an hedge about it, and digged a place for the winefat, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country.
2 And at the season he sent to the husbandmen a servant, that he might receive from the husbandmen of the fruit of the vineyard.
3 And they caught him, and beat him, and sent him away empty.
4 And again he sent unto them another servant; and at him they cast stones, and wounded him in the head, and sent him away shamefully handled.
5 And again he sent another; and him they killed, and many others; beating some, and killing some.
6 Having yet therefore one son, his wellbeloved, he sent him also last unto them, saying, They will reverence my son.
7 But those husbandmen said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and the inheritance shall be our's.
8 And they took him, and KILLED HIM, and cast him out of the vineyard. (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
9 What shall therefore the lord of the vineyard do? he will come and destroy the husbandmen, and will give the vineyard unto others. (good God....]
10 And have ye not read this scripture; The stone which the builders rejected is become the head of the corner:
11 This was the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes? (yes...yes it is!! )

So...what is the reaction to this? Well, its the same reaction all Christians get when you teach on God hating people....Anger which turns into....FEAR. ↓↓↓

12 And they sought to lay hold on him, but feared the people: for they knew that he had spoken the parable against them: and they left him, and went their way.

You can find the same parable in Luke 20.

Wake up people, God hates you...UNLESS God sees you through His Son Jesus Christ. You better hide under the blood, or you will have to stand alone and naked in front of a Holy God who finds KILLING people....marvellous! (verse 11) Go figure.

reply to post by KJV1611

That not enough? Here is a little New Testament doctrine for you:

Romans 9:13
"As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau HAVE I HATED."
yepp...

What a joke!
To get this angry God into the New Testament, you give a verse where Paul is quoting the Old Testament.
We follow the real God today, thanks to Jesus, not the old god of this world who you seem to be in love with.
I suppose you believe Jesus is a "pansy".