America didn't do much in World War II (in Europe)

Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by ChrisF231

 

You demand respect from Japanese tourists in Hawaii after dropping the A-Bomb over Japan? Have you gone completely mad?

If we'd had to invade japan, there wouldn't have been any japanese tourists. The loss of life would have been magnitudes greater.

We were preparing to do just that. Those 2 nukes SAVED millions.

To the OP:

I sure hope that the Soviets, British, French, Polish, and other European nations incurred more casualties... the Nazis were in fact invading those nations.

Remember - the United States had no real reason to enter into war with Germany other than "Nazis are evil and our allies need help".

We had reason to go to war with Japan - but I sure hope you don't think the United States entering the war wasn't the an important development in WWII.

It was the one thing that signaled the swan song of Hitler's war - because we had supplies and a military industrial complex that the Axis couldn't attack or neutralize. Without it - the Allies would have simply run out of tanks, guns, bullets, rubber, apple pies, food, fuel.....

Logistics and information win wars - the dudes dying are just acting out the part.

we should have stayed out of the war and let the germans kick the crap out of england and russia and only focused on the bomb, then if germany had started any crap with us we would have erased them from the history books.

if we had not got into the war the russians and the brits would be speaking german right now

Originally posted by anumohi
we should have stayed out of the war and let the germans kick the crap out of england and russia and only focused on the bomb, then if germany had started any crap with us we would have erased them from the history books.

if we had not got into the war the russians and the brits would be speaking german right now

You do remember there was this little Pearl Harbor thing, yes? Japan and Germany were officially allies at that point.

Did you just sleep through history class?

reply to post by misterbananas


Actually, patton was stopped and not allowed to cross the Rhine into Germany. The Allies allowed the Soviet Union to go into Berlin first due to the amount of casualties that they suffered. The Soviet Union however, didn't use the same tactics and strategies as the US. They were all about handing out rifles and telling their people to either fight or be killed.

Secondly, you must not be google-ing correctly. The US forces which fought in Sicily, and then landed in the second biggest beach landing of all time in Anzio Italy, fought side by side with canadians up all the way to the Appennines mountains. Not only did the US fight up Italy, but they were also fighting the toughest and most battle hardened Nazi's. They were commanded by Kesselring, and he set up many defensive lines, which were quite nefarious for the US to defeat and overcome. I just suggest you do some more thorough research before you make statements that aren't true, and you definitely need to google better.

Now according to the OP, the USA did not have an impact during World War II, and thus should not claim any credit for ending the War. However, the Op failed to mention, that by the time the US did get involved in the European war, the Nazi party and their allies had all but conquered most of the mainland Europe and north Africa, spanning from the boarder of France/Spain all of the way over into the Soviet Union. Nor did the Op mention that it was an American General, Dwight D. Eisenhower, who took command of all Allied forces once the US was involved, making decision and tactical points for strikes, nor does the Op show how the battles were won and swayed in favor of the Allies once the Americans did get involved, lending their manpower, equipment and labor behind the war effort. Funny how that seems to be missing, yet non of the battles that pushed through the major parts of Africa, Italy, France, Germany and Eastern Europe, and that it was the United States, with all of its resources that provided much needed aid to help rebuild Europe after World War II was over, and peace once again was given for the entire of Europe. While people may say that the dropping of the Nuclear weapons on Japan that officially ended World War II was wrong, they were not there when the planning was made, nor were they there to see the intense fighting of the Japanese at that time frame, where people were fighting to the death, when the US was trying to capture them.
Nor do they care to know the misery that was suffered and the hardships all around by everyone in Europe, Asia, and the United States because of it. No one is disputing the sacrifice that was made by the Russians, either at the hands of the Nazi’s or at the hands of Stalin during that time frame. After all what choice did the people have between a mass murderer and a mass murder. Kind of makes you think, after all both men were out for blood, neither had the military compency to do the job correctly, their blunders ultimately cost the lives of millions of people on both sides. For the record, from what can be found out: Hitler killed 86 million, Stalin killed: Around 10 million. So we have a maniac on one side bent on world domination and a miniacle dictator bent on subjucating his people and the countries around him. And the USA did nothing or do anything to help or sacrafice enough?

reply to post by misterbananas

America didn't do much in World War II

Concerning the casualty rate, do bear in mind that the Nazis invaded the former Soviet Union. 22 million civilian deaths attests to that much by itself. Had the Nazis invaded the US mainland, we would have died in roughly the same numbers doing roughly the same things to protect our cities and country.

The rest of your rant is without an ounce of understanding the most fundamental elements of large scale ground combat. I don't mean to insult you, I just can't see how any line of logic could have arrived at such a conclusion.

On the other hand, I am no longer young enough to know everything so... I could have missed it, I guess.

NOTE:
I'll refer your OP to the survivors of the 101 Airborne and Patton's Third Army for consideration.

Thanks

reply to post by bluemirage5

You dense man? Do you have ANY idea what the Japanese did in China? They butchered Chinese civilians by the million. They had contests to see who could impale the most babies on their bayonets or behead the most Chinese POWs. When they took over the Philippines they massacred several entire villages because they provided aid to the guerrillas fighting the Japanese. In Guam they instituted a policy of a mandatory death sentence for singing The Star Spangled Banner because the Guamanians were singing it as a form of defiance against the Japanese. Look up the way they treated US/Filipino, British/Commonwealth, and Dutch POWs - especially during the famous Bataan Death March. These are all well established facts.

reply to post by anumohi

we should have stayed out of the war and let the germans kick the crap out of england and russia

You had no choice in the matter; Japan attacked the US and then Germany declared war on you.

Hitler tried, and failed, to beat the UK, (not just England!) and then failed against Russia.

and only focused on the bomb,

The Manhattan Project was a joint US, UK and Canadian project with scientists from all over the world, it would have taken the US decades to develop the bomb by themselves.

then if germany had started any crap with us we would have erased them from the history books.

Hmmm??

if we had not got into the war the russians and the brits would be speaking german right now

I don't think so...but I do appreciate your help.

we should have stayed out of the war and let the germans kick the crap out of england and russia and only focused on the bomb, then if germany had started any crap with us we would have erased them from the history books.

I remember reading something that at the end of the war when the US was scouring Germany for files on Germany's secret weapons they found out that Germany was only 6 months to a year away from producing their own atomic bomb.

reply to post by Old77


Youve got it wrong.
America only exists because of Europe.

I love the American ignorance whos entire history knowledge seems to be made up of hollywood films.
American chickened out of war for as long as it possibly could.

Just a note about lend-lease, it was'nt given, it had to be paid for, that which the U boats sank, had to be paid for again, under 'cash and carry' , however, without American troops, bombers, fighters, tanks, gas (petrol) D-day would never have happened, The Russians would have eventually reached the French Atlantic and Mediterranean coasts, so all of Europe would have been Communist, and the Brits would have had to supply Germans with guerrilla weapons, just as they did the French, until Russian V1's and V2's started raining down.

Let us just say that it was an "allied" effort, and leave it at that.

The Soviet Union lost millions, true enough. Human wave attacks will do that. England stood alone in the west 'til the US arrived.

As for arriving late in '41? Well, until Japan attacked us, and Germany and Italy foolishly declared war on us, it wasn't really our fight now, was it?

Yes, I know about lend-lease, and the Short of War naval policy in the Atlantic with the convoy escorts and other assorted happenings.

Didn't do much?

That whole arsenal of democracy thing must have slipped right by you... Along with the blood that Americans did shed along side our allies. France, Britain, the Soviet Union, and a multitude of others who all did what they could to help the cause.

Didn't do much...

Try again, my friend.

reply to post by pikestaff


Interesting, and how do you think the Russians would have repaid the USA for standing with the White Army in the 1920s? It was (IMHO) a bizare era with allies turning into enemies and enemies into allies.

most americans I talk to view WWII in terms of pearl harbor, nagasaki, hiroshima and normandy. sure, there were many other fronts and theatres, but there is usually no chest thumping, just sadness at the loss of life and the insanity of the nazi's

Originally posted by Flyer
reply to post by Old77

 

Youve got it wrong.
America only exists because of Europe.

That whole colonization thing? No kidding, really? I had just so, like totally, forgot that.

I love the American ignorance whos entire history knowledge seems to be made up of hollywood films.
American chickened out of war for as long as it possibly could.

American ignorance, huh?

Chickened out? How is it chickening out to avoid a fight 'til you are either A) ready for the fight, or B) attacked, and given no choice in the matter?

If A)? Then you're being smart. That is what the United States was doing in the late thirties, and first two years of the fourties... Playing catch up. The United States was coming out of the Great Depression, and trying to shed the isolationist dogma that had run rampant in American politics for the two decade since the end of WWI. No one in the States wanted to see a replay of the trenches of WWI, with it's gas and millions of casualties. Our military was antiquated, to put it mildly, and was in the process of being updated. But you don't fight, and win, wars with equipment that's still on the drawing boards.

Our navy was, quality wise, second rate compared to say the Japanese. Air Force? Let's not even go there...we had nothing comparable, save on the drawing board, to the Spitfire, or the Bf109, muchless the A6M Zero. Our best was the P40 Tomahawk, which was, at best, a half generation behind those aforementioned three. Those are just the fighters...other than a few B17's, we didn't have much in the way of bombers, either. Our army, and Marines? Too small. Underequipped, and what little they had was obsolete. We were in no condition for a war in Europe, or anywhere else for that matter.

So, if A) Good idea. Not chicken.

If B) Well then, you go to war with what you got. So we did. ...and until 1943, it was an even tussle. After 1943? Well lets just say, quantity has a quality all its own. Add to that quantity a certain quality that the Axis powers couldn't match...? History gives you the answer to that.

Chicken? Not hardly. Wanting to avoid a fight? Yeah. Desperately, as a matter of fact. Politically, a war would be suicide for any politician who would dare to advocate such a thing. Isolationism still had a tight grip upon the general public. Happenings in Europe were of no concern to us. That was the mindset. It took the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbour to change it. ...and that didn't happen 'til the end of '41.

reply to post by thoughtsfull


Most of the Reds never forgot, or forgave. It was mostly a matter of the Nazi's being a common enemy, and the enemy of the moment...

Originally posted by sdcigarpig
Now according to the OP, the USA did not have an impact during World War II, and thus should not claim any credit for ending the War. However, the Op failed to mention, that by the time the US did get involved in the European war, the Nazi party and their allies had all but conquered most of the mainland Europe and north Africa, spanning from the boarder of France/Spain all of the way over into the Soviet Union. Nor did the Op mention that it was an American General, Dwight D. Eisenhower, who took command of all Allied forces once the US was involved, making decision and tactical points for strikes, nor does the Op show how the battles were won and swayed in favor of the Allies once the Americans did get involved, lending their manpower, equipment and labor behind the war effort. Funny how that seems to be missing, yet non of the battles that pushed through the major parts of Africa, Italy, France, Germany and Eastern Europe, and that it was the United States, with all of its resources that provided much needed aid to help rebuild Europe after World War II was over, and peace once again was given for the entire of Europe. While people may say that the dropping of the Nuclear weapons on Japan that officially ended World War II was wrong, they were not there when the planning was made, nor were they there to see the intense fighting of the Japanese at that time frame, where people were fighting to the death, when the US was trying to capture them.
Nor do they care to know the misery that was suffered and the hardships all around by everyone in Europe, Asia, and the United States because of it. No one is disputing the sacrifice that was made by the Russians, either at the hands of the Nazi’s or at the hands of Stalin during that time frame. After all what choice did the people have between a mass murderer and a mass murder. Kind of makes you think, after all both men were out for blood, neither had the military compency to do the job correctly, their blunders ultimately cost the lives of millions of people on both sides. For the record, from what can be found out: Hitler killed 86 million, Stalin killed: Around 10 million. So we have a maniac on one side bent on world domination and a miniacle dictator bent on subjucating his people and the countries around him. And the USA did nothing or do anything to help or sacrafice enough?

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Originally posted by ChrisF231
reply to post by Frira

 

Japanese school students are not taught about events like the Rape of Nanking, the Bataan Death March, Unit 731, and the brutal occupation of the Philippines, Guam, Singapore, Hong Kong, the Dutch East Indies, Taiwan (Formosa), Korea, and China.

The Japanese see Pearl Harbor as their greatest victory ranking probably even higher than their defeat of the Russians in the 1904-05 Russo-Japanese War and the Battle of Tushima in particular. Ironically it was the Battle of Tushima that set Japan on a path of aggression and conquest that would eventually lead to Pearl Harbor and their ultimate defeat in World War II. If you ever doubt this just go to Pearl Harbor and watch all the Japanese tourists laughing and making jokes as they cruise around the harbor in the tour boat, or visit the USS Arizona Memorial. They show absolutely no respect. If you ever get the chance, go to Honolulu and visit Pearl Harbor ... much of it is still an active duty US Navy base (as are almost all of the bases attacked on 12/7/1941) but there are tours and tourist sites.

Yes. And Thank you.

I have been to Pearl. I have been to the memorial. I leaned out to touch the actually ship, because it was important to me even as the child that I was. The Navy men in charge on the memorial seemed to understand, and just let me.

I did not see any disrespect, but that was forty years ago. It was my understanding, then, that the Japanese on the island viewed the Arizona with shame. The new generation, perhaps, not so much.