The Descent into the Bottomless Pit

The Bible tells of false teachers to beware of. Revelation speaks of the Last Days, where this plague upon the earth becomes so extreme, that a character is added to the anti-God pantheon of the Beast, namely the false prophet. This goes into the Lake of Fire, in the Book of Revelation but not before deceiving the world and bringing about Armageddon.
Would this False Prophet be at work today?
Can we identify who this may be?
What are the markers that would give us an indication of whether a religion or philosophy we are looking at or reading the literature of, is in fact, false?
The descent into the bottomless pit is hopefully metaphorical but what I think of as the path taken by those who succumb to the deception that God will allow to come over those who are destined for destruction.
Shall we not take that first step? Shall we be as harmless as doves, but as wise as serpents and not fall into the snare laid before us?

reply to post by jmdewey60


Who says the anti-Christ is evil? If the original message of Christ was twisted and censored by the church to control the masses then that would make the personification of Christ through the church inherently evil and therefore the anti-Christ would be good, it being the opposite of Christ, anti means opposite, not evil.

Maybe the anti-Christ is coming to release us from that control and tyranny.

I think the blanket of false prophecy, and false religion has covered every aspect of every religion that is currently in existance. This is my opinion.
I have nothing against people's pursuit of that "higher power", but when they let themselves be swayed to the belief that theirs is the one true religion and all others are false, they have strayed from the path of enlightenment.

Any type of fundamentalist belief that would lead you to kill in the name of your god is outright sacrilege.

These may be the end times, but I do everything I can to warn all those that I care about to really question their beliefs. If said belief perpetuates a message of hatred, no matter how subversive or whom the target may be, their belief is likely wrong.

Religion was meant to spread light, understanding, instead it has more recently been a tool of darkness, sepparation, and and detriment.

Again just my opinion.

I'll quote some verses that go along with what I posted already.

Matthew 10:16 I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves.

Proverbs 14:8 The wisdom of the shrewd person is to discern his way, but the folly of fools is deception.

James 1:22 But be sure you live out the message and do not merely listen to it and so deceive yourselves.

2 Thessalonians 2:10 and with every kind of evil deception directed against those who are perishing, because they found no place in their hearts for the truth so as to be saved.

2 Thessalonians 2:11 Consequently God sends on them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false.

2 Samuel 22:27 You prove to be reliable to one who is blameless, but you prove to be deceptive to one who is perverse.

Lamentations 2:14 נ (Nun) Your prophets saw visions for you that were worthless lies. They failed to expose your sin so as to restore your fortunes. They saw oracles for you that were worthless lies.

Jeremiah 7:4 Stop putting your confidence in the false belief that says, “We are safe! The temple of the Lord is here! The temple of the Lord is here! The temple of the Lord is here!”

Originally posted by CrimsonMoon
reply to post by jmdewey60

 

Who says the anti-Christ is evil? If the original message of Christ was twisted and censored by the church to control the masses then that would make the personification of Christ through the church inherently evil and therefore the anti-Christ would be good, it being the opposite of Christ, anti means opposite, not evil.

Maybe the anti-Christ is coming to release us from that control and tyranny.

"Ante" in the Greek doesn't mean "against/opposite of", it means "in place of". The antichrist will be a pseudo Christ, someone who will exhalt himself as the world's savior and messiah. He will claim to be God, will place himself above all that is called God, above Christ, above YHWH, and above allah. He will sit in the 3rd temple and declare himself to be God. And the entire world will believe him and will worship him as God. His right hand man willerect an image of the man of sin and require all people to worship the image or face death.

The antichrist will try to replace Christ, make himself savior and claim deity status.

reply to post by Bobaganoosh
I agree with your post, and in particular, two points, that in the terminology of the original post, would be markers to look for when spotting false religion.

Any type of fundamentalist belief that would lead you to kill in the name of your god is outright sacrilege.

If said belief perpetuates a message of hatred, no matter how subversive or whom the target may be, their belief is likely wrong.

We need to discern and carefully examine any teaching and make sure that it aligns with the Word. We shouldn't bicker back and forth on any of the teachings regarding interpretation, instead we should gently present how the Holy Spirit has brought us into the truth on any given matter and explain it as it was explained to us.

False teachings come from when we try to figure things out for ourselves. The Holy Spirit who is truthful in everything is always correct and the true teacher sent by God. When the Spirit reveals something we are supposed to share and then either we will or will not come into agreement. Out of the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.

I'm guilty of not witnessing to the things I know. You asked me in your last thread to explain some things to you and I didn't. There is a place reserved for someone like me - a place reserved for servants. A place of outer darkness where there is a whipping wind, with a pulse of it's own, that will bare down on servants heads. This wind is described in Jeremiah and the place of outer darkness is found in the parable of the talents.

My question to you is this: Do you think the placed reserved for servants is the same place that is reserved for the false prophet?

Originally posted by CrimsonMoon
reply to post by jmdewey60

 

Who says the anti-Christ is evil? If the original message of Christ was twisted and censored by the church to control the masses then that would make the personification of Christ through the church inherently evil and therefore the anti-Christ would be good, it being the opposite of Christ, anti means opposite, not evil.

Maybe the anti-Christ is coming to release us from that control and tyranny.

It just depends on your point of view and you can use your own terminology. If you stick to your particular terminology, then you could be as right as anyone. The problem would be people generally switching off their minds when they hear that word used that way. Then it becomes a bit tedious to have to educate them on your terminology before being able to present your message. A lot of people have a short attention span and will be day dreaming before you get to your point.
Not criticising your content but just the presentation and good luck on your quest for truth.

Originally posted by CrimsonMoon
reply to post by jmdewey60

 

Who says the anti-Christ is evil? If the original message of Christ was twisted and censored by the church to control the masses then that would make the personification of Christ through the church inherently evil and therefore the anti-Christ would be good, it being the opposite of Christ, anti means opposite, not evil.

Maybe the anti-Christ is coming to release us from that control and tyranny.

Well said, that's a possibility. It's also possible that Jesus was a good man, but evil men twisted, or changed the words to cater to their own agenda. Certainly, seems the Roman Catholic Church have done so.

Maybe Pope Benedict XVI - LOL - He's already been accused of being the anti-christ:-

If you Google "Pope Benedict XVI Antichrist" the first result you come across is the mysteriously named website www.popebenedictantichrist.com. Seems like a good enough place to start. Among the evidence they cite is Revelation 17: 7,9 - "The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth." If you're asking "What the #?" keep in mind, Rome sits on seven hills, apparently. Does this mean any Pope in the history of forever fits into that description? Yes, yes it does. But JoeRat is the Pope right now, so it has to be him, right? And he's apparently a woman also. SOURCE

I think i'm with you though, it's a case of duality. Playing good vs evil, but like you said; much of the dogma within the New Testament could be considered evil, or abhorrent.

reply to post by jmdewey60


"What are the markers that would give us an indication of whether a religion or philosophy we are looking at or reading the literature of, is in fact, false?"

Any god, religion, or prophet spreading separation, war, murder, or inequality is false. My father does not tell me to kill or separate from my brother when he is wrong, instead my father consoles and initiates Peace. Buddha, Jesus, Ghandi, and Martin Luther King Jr. went the path of complete Peace, so any TRUE god should be able to do even better than them. Unconditional, universal love and brotherhood is the true way.

Originally posted by Myrtales Instinct
We need to discern and carefully examine any teaching and make sure that it aligns with the Word. We shouldn't bicker back and forth on any of the teachings regarding interpretation, instead we should gently present how the Holy Spirit has brought us into the truth on any given matter and explain it as it was explained to us.

False teachings come from when we try to figure things out for ourselves. The Holy Spirit who is truthful in everything is always correct and the true teacher sent by God. When the Spirit reveals something we are supposed to share and then either we will or will not come into agreement. Out of the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.

I'm guilty of not witnessing to the things I know. You asked me in your last thread to explain some things to you and I didn't. There is a place reserved for someone like me - a place reserved for servants. A place of outer darkness where there is a whipping wind, with a pulse of it's own, that will bare down on servants heads. This wind is described in Jeremiah and the place of outer darkness is found in the parable of the talents.

My question to you is this: Do you think the placed reserved for servants is the same place that is reserved for the false prophet?

I think false teachings come from false teachers who purposely deceive for whatever reason. They may present a public front of being a pius or devout person but in private, are anything but. They are atheists who have no fear of God and will lie all day long if they get benefits in the here-and-now.
How false teachings become effective is in the organization, and this organization may not be apparent to the casual observer. This would be something to merit being called by a name in Revelation. A single person reading the Bible and gaining his own interpretation, even if it is incorrect, does not rise to the same level as what a coherent philosophy spread in a wide way does.
As for servants, I would imagine that a good master would not put good servants into such a bad living condition. As for the fate of the False Prophet and the Beast and the Image of the Beast, and the dragon, I have to think that is imagery to convey concepts. You can take these concepts literally as long as you understand that these are like cardboard cut-outs that represent something quite different. So doing that, as in how to interpret the vision, you could say whatever these things are, they will most likely be made completely ineffective, but beyond that, they will be rendered harmless on a permanent bases, meaning they are not coming back to do further harm, ever. Now if this means going into an outer darkness, I'm not ruling that out. There could be such a place that will exist as long as creation exist, but it is where they can never interfere with us, or we could even be aware of their existence. I don't know if anyone will ever be completely eradicated forever. I used to think so, and I felt that was a basic principle but I don't find much support for it from the Bible as even being a concept.

Proverbs 28:19 The one who works his land will be satisfied with food, but whoever chases daydreams will have his fill of poverty.

The first step into the pit may be the feeling of not wanting to be peculiar and wanting to fit into a group.
There is such a group awaiting your arrival to make you feel not alone and not different, but accepted and belonging.
This is the lure to get you to come to the trap.

1 John 3:24 And the person who keeps his commandments resides in God, and God in him. Now by this we know that God resides in us: by the Spirit he has given us.

The teachings of Jesus and his Apostles tells us that words are not what we need but deeds. The Spirit is not powerless to transform the believer so this must be kept in mind when we make an assessment of a theology that is presented to us.

reply to post by jmdewey60

The teachings of Jesus and his Apostles tells us that words are not what we need but deeds. The Spirit is not powerless to transform the believer so this must be kept in mind when we make an assessment of a theology that is presented to us.

Does this include who wrote what book in the bible, and what contradictions can be found in said books?

Or should we be looking for the meaning behind the teachings?

reply to post by NOTurTypical

He will sit in the 3rd temple and declare himself to be God.

The 3rd Temple was destroyed in 70 AD.
1)Solomon's temple
2)Zarubbabel's temple
3)Herod's Temple

Some people claim that Herod's temple was still the 2nd because the daily sacrifices went uninterrupted while Zarubbabel's temple was dismantled completely, foundation raised 15 feet, and Herod's temple built.

If interruption of sacrifice is the test, then:
1)pre-Josiah Temple
2)Josiah's temple
3)Zarubbabel's temple
4)Post Antiochus Temple/Herod's temple

reply to post by Akragon

Does this include who wrote what book in the bible, and what contradictions can be found in said books?

Or should we be looking for the meaning behind the teachings?

Not sure what you mean, exactly. I was taking about if there really is this great big thing being called the False Prophet in Revelation, shouldn't there be something out there we could point to, that may be the thing.

I was talking just now about the New Testament, and that name comes from the concept of the New Covenant.
Kind of like before someone dies, they write their last will and testament. So this is what is left to us by Jesus as a contract between us, and God.
The New is contrasted with the Old, so if there is someone promoting the old one as being the active contract, them from a Christian's perspective that should be a matter of concern.

I don't know if I am answering your question, and if not, try again and I will see if I can get your point better.
Should we consider who wrote what books? Yes, but probably not how you are thinking. There are apparent contradictions and as things progress, as in the passage of some hundreds of years and the coming of the Son of God, to enlighten us, we should have a lot of those contradictions cleared up by seeing who the true God is and what He expects. The same thing as the true God, previously, once you eliminate the contracting agent who instituted the Old Covenant. That agency was an aberration from true God worship as a way to produce a nation of priests, which ended up, as we know killing the Messiah.
I guess what I am getting at, in terms of what to look out for is those who follow and worship as God, the administrator of that failed system, over the new system that reflects the true nature of God.
So what to look for in books, is like one of the choices you indicated is the message, if it is a book to rationalise genocide and things of that moral level, it is not a book we should be considering as a guide to personal morality.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by Akragon

 

Does this include who wrote what book in the bible, and what contradictions can be found in said books?

Or should we be looking for the meaning behind the teachings?

Not sure what you mean, exactly. I was taking about if there really is this great big thing being called the False Prophet in Revelation, shouldn't there be something out there we could point to, that may be the thing.

I was talking just now about the New Testament, and that name comes from the concept of the New Covenant.
Kind of like before someone dies, they write their last will and testament. So this is what is left to us by Jesus as a contract between us, and God.
The New is contrasted with the Old, so if there is someone promoting the old one as being the active contract, them from a Christian's perspective that should be a matter of concern.

I don't know if I am answering your question, and if not, try again and I will see if I can get your point better.
Should we consider who wrote what books? Yes, but probably not how you are thinking. There are apparent contradictions and as things progress, as in the passage of some hundreds of years and the coming of the Son of God, to enlighten us, we should have a lot of those contradictions cleared up by seeing who the true God is and what He expects. The same thing as the true God, previously, once you eliminate the contracting agent who instituted the Old Covenant. That agency was an aberration from true God worship as a way to produce a nation of priests, which ended up, as we know killing the Messiah.
I guess what I am getting at, in terms of what to look out for is those who follow and worship as God, the administrator of that failed system, over the new system that reflects the true nature of God.
So what to look for in books, is like one of the choices you indicated is the message, if it is a book to rationalise genocide and things of that moral level, it is not a book we should be considering as a guide to personal morality.

My point was that people of most religions are confused simply because its an ongoing battle between every church about who is "more correct". Who wrote what, and what contradicts what are both useless circle arguements which inevidably can not be answered.

While this debate continues on there are a few people who can see the message in the bible regardless of what version they use.

The funny thing is the message is so simplistic that most over look it.

The message is there for all to read, and has stood through out time... It doesn't matter if Jesus even existed at all, the fact is who ever wrote that message to the world understood the path, and apparently walked that path.

The endless debate back and forth on who is more correct is pointless, and only distracts people from the message.

reply to post by Akragon

... It doesn't matter if Jesus even existed at all, the fact is who ever wrote that message to the world understood the path, and apparently walked that path.

No, I agree that it is the way one walks, if I get you right.
I think you need to do one of two things. See if a religion flat-out says people are sinful and deal with it, or find out if a religion, if you follow the logic of their teachings, has it ending up in that same place.
In my opinion, a true religion is one that doesn't just suggest that we probably should be good, if that was only possible, but to say not only is it possible, but is necessary to do it, to be in good standing with God.

Originally posted by pthena
reply to post by NOTurTypical

He will sit in the 3rd temple and declare himself to be God.

The 3rd Temple was destroyed in 70 AD.
1)Solomon's temple
2)Zarubbabel's temple
3)Herod's Temple

Some people claim that Herod's temple was still the 2nd because the daily sacrifices went uninterrupted while Zarubbabel's temple was dismantled completely, foundation raised 15 feet, and Herod's temple built.

If interruption of sacrifice is the test, then:
1)pre-Josiah Temple
2)Josiah's temple
3)Zarubbabel's temple
4)Post Antiochus Temple/Herod's temple

Alright, if you want to view it that way..


He will sit in the 4th temple and declare himself to be God.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by Akragon

 

... It doesn't matter if Jesus even existed at all, the fact is who ever wrote that message to the world understood the path, and apparently walked that path.

No, I agree that it is the way one walks, if I get you right.
I think you need to do one of two things. See if a religion flat-out says people are sinful and deal with it, or find out if a religion, if you follow the logic of their teachings, has it ending up in that same place.
In my opinion, a true religion is one that doesn't just suggest that we probably should be good, if that was only possible, but to say not only is it possible, but is necessary to do it, to be in good standing with God.

edit on 8-8-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

IMO there is no true religion... religion is simply a way of controling the masses by putting in place one who is an "authority" on biblical matters, which usually leads to corruption. From that point is do what we say, or else.

The path is quite clear for anyone who choses to read it... you don't need anyone to tell you what is in the bible.

Religion is a farse, always has been, always will be

reply to post by Akragon

The path is quite clear for anyone who choses to read it... you don't need anyone to tell you what is in the bible.

That path is to you, your religion. You can call it something else if you want.