Ex Us Military Police, Brandon Neely, Exposes the Abuses and Crimes Against Prisoners at Guantanamo

reply to post by jude11

"BOTH SIDES ARE EQUAL IN THEIR ATROCITIES AND MURDER OF INNOCENT PEOPLE TO FURTHER THEIR AGENDAS."

You know, the difference is these same posters say the reason we need to attack these "so called" terrorists is their immoral actions such as their treatment of prisoners.

Now it's an excuse to do the same

reply to post by jude11


Both sides are guilty, but they are in no way equal at all. However if thats what you think , thats you.

The Taliban / Al Queida are vicious and have no regard for any type of international law except for Sharia. They have hijcaked a religion and routinely violate its tenets.

What I point out, that you continually ignore, is everytime a thread like this come up you and others are in it bitching about America without having all the information present, namely UN conventions and US law. Instead you seize on the US while you ignore the opposing side.

Simply saying both sides are guilty does not cut it, since its an obvious attempt to make it look like you are not one sided, which your post history does not support. Feel free to correct me and point out in what threads you have taken something / someone to task other than anything US related?

Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by jude11

 

"BOTH SIDES ARE EQUAL IN THEIR ATROCITIES AND MURDER OF INNOCENT PEOPLE TO FURTHER THEIR AGENDAS."

You know, the difference is these same posters say the reason we need to attack these "so called" terrorists is their immoral actions such as their treatment of prisoners.

Now it's an excuse to do the same

I think the difference your looking for is one side can stop, they cannot. They wont stop until we all are under their view of how things should be. Before you try to counter by saying the US is doing the same, we are not. If you have specific examples feel free to point them out and I will stand corrected.

My point being in the US you can be Muslim, Catholic or Methodist without issue. The same cannot be said for people living under the rules of Al queida or the Taliban.

We arent forcing them to convert, while that is ther main goal.

I'm merely discussing the treatment of prisoners which is what the thread is about..

Could you please reply on topic as I know you hate off topic posters and tell them to stay on topic or don't post.

I would think that they don't have to have trials because they are not U.S citizens. We don't have to give them one, because they don't fall under our preview of law.

I could care less what happens to them, or any one else for that matter. Seems to me we could be saving a lot of money by simply shooting them. 1 Bullet each at about 10 cents seems a better deal than giving them food, water better medical treatment than most people in the world.

So I think they should be killed than we wouldn't be having a discussion on the subject in the first place.

They are not U.S citizens, no trial, just shoot them..

Originally posted by backinblack
I'm merely discussing the treatment of prisoners which is what the thread is about..

Could you please reply on topic as I know you hate off topic posters and tell them to stay on topic or don't post.

My response is on topic since it deals with American law on the treatment of prisoners, which directly relates ot Guantonomo Bay. I also brought up UN convention which applies to not only the US but the Talkiabn and Al Queida as well.

They are very much on topic. Care to respond with something other than being pissy because you got spanked in another thread by the mods for being off topic?

Do you think the manner prisoners at gitmo are treated is better off than the way prisoners are treated by the Taliban or Al Qurida?

Is there anything about the person who is making the complaint coming to light that would place a question mark on his neutrality in reporting violations?

Have any of his claims been investigated, coroborated or sustained by the OIG / FBI / JAG corp?

reply to post by Xcathdra

Have any of his claims been investigated, coroborated or sustained by the OIG / FBI / JAG corp?

Ah yes, a US agency investigating a Us agency..

BTW, I can't comment on u2u's or I'd respond to your off topic comments from the other thread..
But your thread got few flags and the majority of posters opposed your view.
Odd that you bring up your failed thread though...

Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

Have any of his claims been investigated, coroborated or sustained by the OIG / FBI / JAG corp?

Ah yes, a US agency investigating a Us agency..

BTW, I can't comment on u2u's or I'd respond to your off topic comments from the other thread..

But your thread got few flags and the majority of posters opposed your view.
Odd that you bring up your failed thread though...

Yes a US agency investigating a US agency Whats wrong with that?

Australia agency investigating a Australia agency a German agency investigating a German agency

Its the country action there is no fault in logic that said country would investigate itself makes sense to me.

When do you see another country investigating another country?

Originally posted by Thundersmurf
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

Wow, brilliant contribution. You didn't refer to anything in the statement at all. Fail

To the OP... good find. I think we're coming in to a time when people realise they can come forward and be heard. Lets hope lots more like him do the same. S&F

Peace

Xcathdra is one of our neighborhood government apologists

Ignore them and Kro32 and you will enjoy this forum much more.

yeah alright for those people who are making a big deal of this

where is your outrage for prisons around the world this is nothing new and no country doesnt have it.

thats here in the us,europe and the middle east and asia to africa.

there is one unescapeable fact that noone can argue prisons are a place for bad people and they do bad things there.

no amount of crying about will ever change that and it never has since the beginning of prisons.

Originally posted by backinblack
Let me help you out -

Do you think the manner prisoners at gitmo are treated is better off than the way prisoners are treated by the Taliban or Al Queida?

Is there anything about the person who is making the complaint coming to light that would place a question mark on his neutrality in reporting violations?

Have any of his claims been investigated, coroborated or sustained by the OIG / FBI / JAG corp?

Originally posted by MasterGemini

Originally posted by Thundersmurf
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

Wow, brilliant contribution. You didn't refer to anything in the statement at all. Fail

To the OP... good find. I think we're coming in to a time when people realise they can come forward and be heard. Lets hope lots more like him do the same. S&F

Peace

Xcathdra is one of our neighborhood government apologists

Ignore them and Kro32 and you will enjoy this forum much more.

Now this is funny... Are you so scared and paranoid that you fear other viewpoints?

The government does a LOT I dont agree with. However in this case, my "defense" of them is based on knowledge of how my government works, at all levels.

Something you and some toher should actually learn.

reply to post by Xcathdra


man thats like talking to a brick wall

americans and club gitmo are evil and we both know and even they know and will never admit it

but when it comes to atrocities club gitmo doesnt even hold a candle to middle eastern prisons.

Originally posted by Xcathdra

Originally posted by MasterGemini

Originally posted by Thundersmurf
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

Wow, brilliant contribution. You didn't refer to anything in the statement at all. Fail

To the OP... good find. I think we're coming in to a time when people realise they can come forward and be heard. Lets hope lots more like him do the same. S&F

Peace

Xcathdra is one of our neighborhood government apologists

Ignore them and Kro32 and you will enjoy this forum much more.

Now this is funny... Are you so scared and paranoid that you fear other viewpoints?

The government does a LOT I dont agree with. However in this case, my "defense" of them is based on knowledge of how my government works, at all levels.

Something you and some toher should actually learn.

Yeah I can understand that, They don't like having to learn any thing. They might have to look past their own nose and do some research

I also agree that there is a lot our government does which I don't agree with as well. All it takes is a few phone calls and some research and boom you have some one working on it. Which is how our government works.

Really tho people would it kill you to learn some thing about your own government? If your not from the United States this this doesn't apply to you.

reply to post by wcitizen


Not in my name. I do not consent either.

We have no business being in Iraq or Afghanistan. Neither nation has attacked America or Americans. They are defending themselves against OUR AGGRESSION. We are only there so American corporations can make many billions of dollars on the loss of innocent lives. Bring the troops home. American taxpayers do not need to contribute another cent to companies that already have made billions. The pentagon already gets one half of all the money we spend. Close foreign bases including Gitmo and spend the money on balancing the budget, education, medicine, food and shelter for the poor. Libraries, and music classes for the schools. Better teachers for our children. A border fence. Power plants that do not pollute. A national high speed rail system. Stopping the extinction of wildlife. Growing food more efficiently such as aquaculture. Cleaning up the pollution.

"Should any American soldier be so base and infamous as to injure any [prisoner]. . . I do most earnestly enjoin you to bring him to such severe and exemplary punishment as the enormity of the crime may require. Should it extend to death itself, it will not be disproportional to its guilt at such a time and in such a cause… for by such conduct they bring shame, disgrace and ruin to themselves and their country" -George Washington

It's sad to watch the principles of the founding fathers get trampled on so that people can feel more secure. For you Christians out there that think treating prisoners of war badly is alright: Romans 12:17-21 "Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everyone. If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” says the Lord. On the contrary: “If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.” Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good."

Please don't say that the first century Christians didn't know what terrorism was, or that their way of defeating it through non violence doesn't work. As we all know the word martyr came from somewhere.

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by wcitizen

 

Cool.. Ill care when terrorist renounce terrorism and quit cutting peoples heads off for no other reason than they arent muslim.

Ill care when they decide their goal is not an Islamic form of government under sharia law here in the US.

Maybe they shouldnt pick a fight if they arent prepared for it ya think?

edit on 24-7-2011 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

Not every prisoner who is at Gitmo is actually a "terrorist".

Furthermore.... where do people get this "they want Sharia Law in the US" thing from to such an extent that anyone actually needs to worry about it? I want to own a Tiger, but just because I express a desire to own one does not mean anyone in my family should be expecting to see one sitting in the front yard ready to eat them as they leave the house. For Sharia Law to ever be the law of the land in this country we would have to be invaded, the system in place completely destroyed and a whole new governing body put into place at every possible level for that to ever happen. I think it is fair to say that you have a better chance of becoming a hermaphrodite overnight than such a scenario ever coming to fruition.

...re: the atrocities at gitmo... just because "someone else has done it or is doing it or has done worse" has never been anything but a childish excuse for bad behavior... i didnt accept that extremely low standard from my kids and i wont accept it from my country either...

...as for brandon neely - i cant say he's brave... i could have if he had blown his whistle prior to being released from the army but thats not what happened... i understand the fear of court martial and loss of benefits... i just dont accept them as anything other than an excuse...

..prez ike taught me a lesson a long time ago with his exit speech... many think of him as a hero for that warning... i never saw it that way... a hero wouldve done the right while still in office... he didnt... he continued to be a puppet, albeit a disgruntled one, and he benefitted from doing so...

...i apply the same standard to brandon... too little, too late... i will cut him some slack because his telling of his views of going to war clearly indicate a very naive young man...

reply to post by MrWendal


I never said the people in gitmo were terrorists. People asked about the war on terror, which is what it was called. The popel in gitmo are considered enemy combatants under UN requirements.

The comments about Sharia law and the Us comes directly from those groups (al Queida) as one of their stated goals.

Our tangle with extreme Islam did not occur in the 21st century, nor did it occur in the 20th century.

Listen to the Marine Corp Hymn and you will find out when our first issue occured (shores of tripoli is a hint). Our merchant vessesl were being attacked in the med during the late 1700s. We sent an envoy to neogitiate with the forces attacking our shipping, which were muslims. In an effort to reach and end to the hostilities, we were told it would never happen.

Why? Because we are the infadels and because of that they had a duty to attack. So yeah, this issue is not exactly new.

As far as it never happneing here, thank you for saying that. The chances of the US declaring martial law in an effort to cause a coup is just as possible as radical perverted views of islams invading and taking over.

Originally posted by Wyn Hawks
...re: the atrocities at gitmo... just because "someone else has done it or is doing it or has done worse" has never been anything but a childish excuse for bad behavior... i didnt accept that extremely low standard from my kids and i wont accept it from my country either...

Yet you will accept it from radical Islam when they kill our civilians? There entire argument, well one of many anyways, is our policies that have resulted in the deaths of people, although I still say, like hamas, they are seizing on one issue in order to push an ulterior agenda.

My issue with the responses in this thread, and a few others on topics like this, is people have no issue jumping to take the Us to task. The problem is there is a stunning silence by those same people when it comes to the same thing by other groups.

The issues wont go away because America changes the way it treats enemy combatants. Change is going to be needed on the flip side of the coin. The side that others tend to ignore because apparently change on that side is to difficult to pursue.

Originally posted by Wyn Hawks
...as for brandon neely - i cant say he's brave... i could have if he had blown his whistle prior to being released from the army but thats not what happened... i understand the fear of court martial and loss of benefits... i just dont accept them as anything other than an excuse...

He is actually protected under Federal Law as well as the UCMJ if he were to report events. However it does make one wonder why he did wait so long.

Originally posted by Wyn Hawks
..prez ike taught me a lesson a long time ago with his exit speech... many think of him as a hero for that warning... i never saw it that way... a hero wouldve done the right while still in office... he didnt... he continued to be a puppet, albeit a disgruntled one, and he benefitted from doing so...

...i apply the same standard to brandon... too little, too late... i will cut him some slack because his telling of his views of going to war clearly indicate a very naive young man...

A story comes to mind with all of this.

A guy goes to downtown Detroit to watch protestors who are agains tthe war on terror. He takes time to listen to one person in partiulcar talk about turning the other cheek, not sinking to their level etc.

When the protestor is done talking, the guy observing, as hard as he can, jacks the protestor in the face, sending him to the ground. When the protestor gets up and goes to respond, the guy starts to preach to the protestor exactly what the protestor was saying - turn the other cheek , dont sink to their level etc.

When the protestor doesnt attack, the guy jacks him in the face as hard as he can, sending him back to the ground. When the guy gets up and goes to defend himself, the guy ionce against starts to preach back to the protestor, telling him to turn the other cheek, dont sink to their level etc.

When the protestor backs down, the guy, again, jacks him in the face as hard as he can, sending him to the ground.

Moral of the story?

Sometimes turning the other cheek doesnt solve the problem when dealing with people bent on your destruction. Sometimes, and they are few in human history, a line must be drawn in the sand.

A point where its declared this line and no farther.