There is something very strange with the Utoya killing timeline

reply to post by Aeons


This eye witness claims he met him when he entered the Utoya ferry.

Ah here we go.

www.thisislondon.co.uk...

She had become suspicious of him as they caught the ferry back to the island together. He was dressed in a fake policeman's uniform and she quizzed him about the bomb in central Oslo, which killed eight, but became concerned at his evasive answers.

Accountant Ms Bosei, whose two daughters were unhurt despite being on the island, ran off to raise the alarm when the ferry docked, alerting off-duty policeman Trond Berntsen, 51, who was working as a guard.

Put my brain dump in the wrong thread on my way out the door.

Originally posted by Aeons
Brain Dump:

Assumption on road transit times do not include traffic problems, or that the time is about right for Friday after work traffic. Summer work hours in Norway lets out at 15:00.

Breivik claims he was delayed between Oslo and Utoeya.


Times local to Oslo Time Zone CEST.

Friday July 22, 15:26 (2011-07-22 15:26:00 CEST) (time given in this thread 15:20) Bombing at:
Statsministerens kontor (Prime Minister’s Office)
Akersgata 42, 0180 Oslo, Norway


The bomb was in a vehicle. He also drove to the dock in a vehicle. Clearly not the same vehicle used for the bombing.

Bomb was likely remotely detonated? He needs time to move from vehicle-bomb to pre—planted transportation vehicle?

Directionality of the arriving emergency vehicles? Did he need to take a different route than expected? Did he need to walk to his transportation vehicle during the chaos? Was there more people dumping out of the area more quickly than he anticipated?

Picture of Utoeya showing location of dock on East side of Island. This is a privately owned Island in Tyrifjorden Lake.
home.online.no...

Routes To Utstranda/Fv155 (closest dock) @ Hoenefoss

By E18 and E16 is 34 minutes.

By E16 only is 46 minutes.

Avoiding highways and tolls route takes 51 to 55 minutes. Seems quite possible he'd avoid highways as much as possible.

First Twitter about shootings 17:41. (2011-07-22 17:41:00)

First call time given by Polce 17:27 – made by Anders Nohre Berg when he heard shots from the mainland.

17:08 first time for shooting given by www.dagbladet.no...
Now 404’ed. Cached version available here: webcache.googleusercontent.com...:_NZzQO_BbVIJ:www.dagbladet.no/2011/07/25/nyheter/innenriks/terror_i_oslo/terrorangrepet/17445561/ +www.dagbladet.no...&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca&source=www.google.ca


So assuming that he remotely detonated after already being in his transportation vehicle:
15:26 + 55 minutes to get to dock on the mainland.

Route time for highway avoiding routes and tolls, but not accounting for traffic problems caused by people leaving Oslo on a Friday where Norway is on summer work hours meaning they let out at 15:00, extra traffic caused by the Labour event and the PM’s arrival and departure, nor extra traffic chaos caused by the bombing and emergency service dumping teams into the downtown core for other bombs.: @16:15

Accounting for problems in traffic, avoidance of detection, having to move to his transportation vehicle planted at a safe distance from his bomb vehicle: add 30 minutes. @16:45

Requests to be transferred to the Island as a Police Officer to address the crowd about the bombing in Oslo.

Last schedule for the day is now 17:00 due to the bombing.
www.trove.com...

17:00 board. Depart. Dock and disembark. 15 minutes? 17:15.

Ms.Bosei disembarks, approaches security guard/step-brother of princess and gets shot. @17:25? Two minutes for Mr. Berg to call 911.


Doesn’t seem unreasonable to me.

how did he kill people on the ferry anyway? was those 2 people the only others on that boat at the time?

did he used a silencer? if he didnt, it could attract attention and alarmed his victims. it wud even be harder to achieve the bodycount he did, in this case.

just playing detective.

He didn't shoot them until they had docked.

People heard him shoot, but not everybody saw who did it.

What they did see was a police officer, and assumed he was on it doing crowd control. Instead he was using his borrowed authority to mask that he was the shooter in the chaos. Cognitive dissonance, mental scotomoa, ladder of inference - people see what they expect to see.

Strange the witnesses who saw him on the mainland didn't notice any scuba-diver's wetsuit.

The first reports said the shooter initially called the young people to gather around him before pulling out a weapon and start shooting.

Now we have version two where he is first escorted to the office when he draws a gun and shoots the security guard.

Originally posted by starviego
Strange the witnesses who saw him on the mainland didn't notice any scuba-diver's wetsuit.

The first reports said the shooter initially called the young people to gather around him before pulling out a weapon and start shooting.

Now we have version two where he is first escorted to the office when he draws a gun and shoots the security guard.

Both are likely true. The wetsuit probably just seemed like some sort of extra gear that maybe is mandatory under emergency situations to people around. They do think it is odd, but then cops/military under duress act not normal.

He gets off the ferry, approaches and shoots the only possible people who might cause him troubles. The woman that dislikes him, and the security guard who might get in his way.

After the initial people who might have seen this, and might have known that it was him ran he then proceeds on to the Island green space and announces that people should gather. They do as they are told, and then he shoots them.

He continues with this tactic several times, because afraid people actually do what he says.

The thing that Norway police and government may not have gotten out of this yet, is that this episode is likely to make their populace less compliant with presumed automatic authority. That should be a subtle and sweeping change in their culture.

The one thing that should signal this immediately is - people are pushing back about emergency services reasoning for their time to get out there. And they aren't letting up. They are using a tactic that has worked for them before - explaining it, and people are less than happy with the explanation. And the government hasn't figured out yet that repeated explanation is likely to work unfavourably. It is actually likely to start prompting anger or resentment. The government and the police service don't realize that yet, and it is going to bite them in the butt if they don't change tactics with the public very soon.

Originally posted by starviego

More police excuses:
www.telegraph.co.uk...
-- Police have been accused of a series of mistakes in their response to the shootings. There were a series of delays even as Breivik was shooting his victims; an overloaded boat carrying officers to the island started sinking into the lake; the first police officers to the scene stopped before crossing to the island, to wait for specialist backup; and the Delta-force armed unit which was trained to deal with terrorist attacks had to go by land from Oslo because no helicopters were available.

And another one, the best one yet:

www.thisislondon.co.uk...
Police, who took 90 minutes to arrive on Utoya after the first gunshots, also said its entire Oslo helicopter crew had been sent on holiday and could not be mobilised.


/

Originally posted by Aeons

Last schedule for the day is now 17:00 due to the bombing.
www.trove.com...

17:00 board. Depart. Dock and disembark. 15 minutes? 17:15.

Ms.Bosei disembarks, approaches security guard/step-brother of princess and gets shot. @17:25? Two minutes for Mr. Berg to call 911.


Doesn’t seem unreasonable to me.

That timeline makes absolute sense. My question would be why the bomb would result in the ferry running late? Also, if the ferry was docked closeby, why couldn't the police commandeer it to get to the island?

Originally posted by ilandrah

Originally posted by Aeons

Last schedule for the day is now 17:00 due to the bombing.
www.trove.com...

17:00 board. Depart. Dock and disembark. 15 minutes? 17:15.

Ms.Bosei disembarks, approaches security guard/step-brother of princess and gets shot. @17:25? Two minutes for Mr. Berg to call 911.


Doesn’t seem unreasonable to me.

That timeline makes absolute sense. My question would be why the bomb would result in the ferry running late? Also, if the ferry was docked closeby, why couldn't the police commandeer it to get to the island?

The ferry was running early. They set the 17:45 ferry to go instead at 17:00.

The ferry was docked on the Island right after the attack. Someone would have needed to take it back across to the mainland.

Ferry captain killed? Hid? Dodging bullets? For some reason the ferry was still at dock on the Island, and was not relaunched for the mainland.

Originally posted by Aeons
The ferry was docked on the Island right after the attack. Someone would have needed to take it back across to the mainland.
Ferry captain killed? Hid? Dodging bullets? For some reason the ferry was still at dock on the Island, and was not relaunched for the mainland.

Do you have a source for that?

A source for which part. I haven't heard anything about the Ferry captain, which is why it is set with a question mark.

However, we know that Brievik shot Trond Berntsen and Monica Bosei after disembarking. This would indicate that the ferry is still docked on the Island.

The ferry had no reason to return to the mainland immediately - it had done the final pick up for the day. The island is a private island. All of the clients it would need to be available for are now on the Island for the evening.

reply to post by starviego


Her source is unfortunetaly wrong. It goes much on the first official data released by some Norwegian newspapers. The real ferry times were posted by me in the beginning of this thread. Go back and read mine or the googletranslated one by the OP. Last official ferry departed 1545. If it departed later It can be due to the official police look by Breivik which made the ferryman make an extratour. This has been hushed up by all authorities and newspapers in Norway by some strange reason.

Btw. the ferryman still lives and regrets he didnt return and pick up more youths from the massacre. Also a bit strange.

reply to post by Aeons


Johannes Dalen Giske worked on the ferry; He says here :

- We just had to go
- Eventually, people came running down, among them was AUF leader Eskil Pedersen and his counselor and a few more.
Finally, we managed to call the captain of the boat - and departed.

Feeling emotion of guilt

He says that he subsequently has thought a lot about the decision they took the afternoon
- It's clear they know little of it that we were nine in the boat, and it could Room 50.

Thank you. Did they dock the boat back at Honefoss? Or did he take the boat somewhere else?

reply to post by Aeons


ABB had said that two other policemen would arrive later; believing there were two more killers waiting on the dock/mainland, they sailed north (for about 30 minutes) - I guess; probably right north of Utvika Camping (60.044484,10.271025), where some of them ran up to the road (including Eskil Pedersen) and hitched to Hønefoss.
(another source)

So where did the Ferry dock on the mainland, and which dock were the police at? And do emergency services in Norway have the right to commandeer private vehicles, or use private facilities during an emergency?

how do u know that the woman didnt like, or had suspicion on him?

the woman and the officer were dead. who told this story at first? was there a 3rd person on the ferry who did survive?

if this is the case, how did the other victims didnt panic on the shooters arival?

reply to post by coyote66



You know, if you haven't actually READ anything about this stuff, looked at the interviews, perused the guys manifesto, etc.....how is it that you are so sure you know what's happening is suspicious?

Yes, there are people who survived from the Ferry. One of them was interviewed. It was his opinion that Ms.Bosei (Mother Utoya) did not like Breivik.

Eventually, people came running down, among them was AUF leader Eskil Pedersen and his counselor and a few more. Finally we called the captain of the boat and was driven from the land.

If Eskil Pedersen had been the captain of a ship, would he have pushed others out of the way in his scramble to get on a lifeboat? I realize attacking an armed man while you are unarmed is a lot to ask, but dammit, where were the MEN on that island?