Current Events as precursor to possible serious conflict with China

WWIII may not be the best place for this as I hope it will not come to but there have been several threads lately with parts of the information that I deem important, some with information that I don't have and some that does overlap and other pieces that I feel are important that I haven't seen. I am trying to not step on those author's toes with this thread and apologize in advance if any feel that I am. I feel that there are important connections that I have responded to in threads but I had not taken the time to pull out all the pieces and play connect the dots. So, I am trying to do that now. I think we may already be in the early stages of serious conflict. While the U.S. may escape map changes and actual "on our soil" warfare, I do not believe that will be true of the world.
My material:
Rare Earth causes EU/US tension with China

This is highly disappointing and the EU continues to encourage the Chinese authorities to revisit their export restrictions policy to ensure there is full, fair, predictable and nondiscriminatory access to rare earth supplies as well as other raw materials for EU industries," EU trade spokesman John Clancy said in an e-mailed statement.[/

China mad about Dalai Lama visit

BEIJING, July 17 (Reuters) - China accused the United States on Sunday of "grossly" interfering in its internal affairs and seriously damaging relations after President Barack Obama met exiled Tibetan spiritual leader the Dalai Lama at the White House

"This action is a gross interference in China’s internal affairs, hurts the feelings of the Chinese people and damages Sino-U.S. relations," Foreign Ministry spokesman Ma Zhaoxu said in a statement released in the early hours of Sunday.

"Feel Good" visit actually underscores tensions

Mullen's visit to China was the first of its kind in four years. It was intended to build on efforts to increase communications and exchanges between the two in hopes of easing growing tensions over China's growing military might and economic clout.

Chen, who visited the U.S. in May, stressed that China remains well behind the United States in military capability and said its military growth is purely for defense.Mullen on Friday said he was not convinced.
"It's too early to say where China is going with all of this," he said. "They say it's defensive. We'll see."

U.S./Vietnam naval drills during Vietnam/China tension just another source of conflict

US-Vietnam naval drill begins against China's wish

DANANG, Vietnam — Former enemies Vietnam and the United States began a joint naval drill on Friday, despite Chinese objections after weeks of escalating tension in the disputed South China Sea.

So as we can see, there is an awful lot of tension out there; entirely aside from the matter of the U.S. debt which most of us already know is a matter in which China has a vested interest.

But, could it really come to war? Aren't these monster nations far too large and powerful to actually go at it? There are arguments on both sides of that one. But more importantly, I think we need to look at it from something of a Cold War perspective and see the moves that are made in terms of spheres of influence and proxies. And, just as in the cold war there is always the possibility that things could burn out of control.

I feel rather strongly that the U.S. is backing India as its proxy. The big meeting last fall, expensive, but deemed important enough for attendence by all manner of high ranking business and government figures. Everyone wanted to know what they were doing over there. And, I think they were preparing. Since that meeting we have experienced the Arab Spring. Change of the first order or further destabilization of an entire area of the world? A resource rich one at that.

So, our stake in India?
India's June purchase of U.S. Aircraft

This month, India’s Cabinet Committee on Security approved the purchase of 10 C-17 Globemaster III heavy-lift transport aircraft from the United States for use by the Indian Air Force, in a deal worth $4.1 billion

The Air Force, currently the largest beneficiary of India’s rising military budget, is in the middle of shifting its focus from being a purely Pakistan-centric force, to one that will be capable of simultaneously meeting the twin threats posed by an insecure Pakistan and an increasingly belligerent China.

So India, like Vietnam and the other South China Sea countries feels that China is becoming "belligerent". Interesting. In another ATS thread it was noted that a Chinese General had discussed that China has colonial aspirations. And they would almost have to in order to take care of their population. India's population will be larger than China's within twenty five years. How likely is it that these two powers will remain peaceful? The Kashmir region (claimed by China, Pakistan, and India) has been a prickly situation for decades. Resources will be an even greater one moving forward.

And, interestingly, on Kashmir: just as the U.S. begins to distance itself from India's long standing rival
China helps Pakistan in Kashmir

Chinese fiscal assistance is allowing Pakistan to begin rebuilding its energy infrastructure in its portion of the contested Himalayan state, which it labels “Azad Kashmir,” heavily damaged during last year’s flooding.

WOW! That's odd. China rebuilding land it claims for one of the countries that denies that claim! It looks like if India is going to be our first proxy than China is throwing in with Pakistan. India and Pakistan are both nuclear powers afterall. That makes the fight somewhat fair.

Except that India is updating its airforce as per the above. Hmm. If China was truly going to use Pakistan as a Proxy against our Indian proxy it seems that they would want to do something about that.
Oh, wait!
China agreed to GIVE Pakistan planes! How Nice of them!

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan — China has agreed to immediately provide 50 JF-17 fighter jets to Pakistan, a major outcome of a visit by Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gilani to Beijing this week, Pakistani officials said Thursday.

And we went in and got OBL, then cut off aid to Pakistan.

And, just as the cherry on top China is hugely interested in Africa.
China largest investor in Africa because they need the resources

“Statistics are hard to come by, but China is probably the biggest single investor in Africa,” said Martyn Davies, the director of the China Africa Network at the University of Pretoria. “They are the biggest builders of infrastructure. They are the biggest lenders to Africa, and China-Africa trade has just pushed past $100 billion annually.”

Notice that trade figure. It also helps to make the U.S. a less important market.

And, of course, given that huge investment in the continent, they don't appreciate Western Powers interferring there.
China on Libya

China's strongest condemnation yet of assaults on the forces of Libya's leader Muammar Gaddafi appeared in the People's Daily, the mouthpiece of the ruling Communist Party, and showed how the conflict could become a fresh point of contention between Beijing and Washington.

And, so once again our tale turns to conflict between China and the West. I just don't think it's a pretty situation.
I do not want to be fearmongering though I am certain some will see it that way. I just think that conflicts many of us consider to be decades in the distance, if they materialize at all, could actually be closer at hand.

I can sum up my feelings here by stating that "objects in mirror may be closer than they appear".
Thanks for listening.

Let me just add to your scary mixture cooking on the stove here...

Remember the Chinese submarine popping up in the middle of our ships in the Pacific?

Remember the strange blast-off near the coast of California, that the Pentagon first said *shrug* it wasn't us, and then later said it was an airplane mistaken for a missile (but of course they declined to give a flight numbe, airline, or destination.)

Speculative but I'll throw it out there anyway: Remember in the early days of the Gulf oil spill, there was rumor of North Korea or China firing a missile or bomb at the drilling platform. Oh, and while we're at it, China supposedly had some responsibility in the inspection of the rig that blew.

Also, there was a thread here recently about China and microwaves. It was about a study that had been published-- something about enhancing radar readings if I remember correctly. I believe it entailed focusing microwaves at a couple of locations on Earth. One was a portion of the Missouri River? I'm sorry, I'm sketchy on the details and too lazy to search. Anybody remember this study linked to a thread about China & microwaves?

reply to post by new_here


You have indeed added some excellent spice to my stew! Thank you for your contribution.
Also, and there have been threads about this, the whole cyberwar thing with us determining that we could take such as an act of war and respond accordingly. I know that not all of the high level hacking orginates from China, but contemporary wisdom and word on the street is that it does. The timing of our change to our stance regarding cyber attacks and our admission that a foreign intelligence hacked us regarding highly sensitive information: and the timing of that admission and change. Well, the to continue your metaphor, the pot does seem to be coming to a boil.

Originally posted by watcher3339
reply to post by new_here

 

You have indeed added some excellent spice to my stew! Thank you for your contribution.
Also, and there have been threads about this, the whole cyberwar thing with us determining that we could take such as an act of war and respond accordingly. I know that not all of the high level hacking orginates from China, but contemporary wisdom and word on the street is that it does. The timing of our change to our stance regarding cyber attacks and our admission that a foreign intelligence hacked us regarding highly sensitive information: and the timing of that admission and change. Well, the to continue your metaphor, the pot does seem to be coming to a boil.

Excellent point about the timing of the change in stance. Words that the gov throws out to the masses are rarely ever random and insignificant.

Off on a slight tangent now... remember back a year ago maybe, there was a strange news blurb about US computer/servers being temporarily re-routed and information passing briefly through servers in China? At the time, I thought it was a HUGE oh sh#t moment, but it got merely a passing mention in the press.

There is a quote that say

When China will wake up
the entire earth will tremble
because of their massive army

They know that to win a war against the USA
an invasion would be the only solution
take US soil/civilians has hostage .. so the president wont launch any nuke on china cities

But isn't China too dependent of the US? I mean without the US buying all their products where would they get their funding?

Originally posted by starwarsisreal
But isn't China too dependent of the US? I mean without the US buying all their products where would they get their funding?

Yeah I thought of that, then I thought... they're running out of land & water for their own people. Would they want to maybe set up shop here and move their extra's over. Does it matter to them WHO is buying their wares as long as it is underlings of some sort? They could just do away with the current populace here and install their own kind. I dunno. That's surely a simplistic way of looking at it. But it does make me wonder, DO they really need us???

Originally posted by Ben81
take US soil/civilians has hostage .. so the president wont launch any nuke on china cities

edit on 7/17/2011 by Ben81 because: (no reason given)

i dont really think the government will care about the civilians in a war..after all, they are the same people who killed 3000 of their own people. Oh and its not up to the President if he wants to launch nukes. He is merely a puppet

S and F for your VERY interesting and thought provoking post. Within the realm of possibilities, I would offer my opinion that this is more a probability than a possibility.

Again, thank you for this post. I am very interested in the followup to it.

reply to post by new_here


Ah see, thats where it gets interesting. If I do remember correctly there was threads here on ATS and also news on yahoo at one point about how 2016 most of our shops will be pretty much like china town. So I think if they're gonna attack they're gonna wait til then.

reply to post by Ben81


And when the Chinese do try to visit our wonderful and unique in history, AMERICA, we would like to introduce them to our welcoming committee... The 2nd Amendment of The United States Constitution. (Sans Barry of course) and we will give them an updated version of the old Clint Eastwood movie..
The Good, The Bad and The Ugly.

That reminds me, I saw this a couple of months ago. The new movie Red Dawn, they are remaking it. Instead of Russians invading, it was the Chinese, then, changed to North Korea being the aggressor.

3] Instead of depicting a Soviet invasion of the United States as in the 1984 film, the 2011 version's storyline was originally filmed with a Chinese invasion. This was later edited to depict a North Korean invasion in post-production due to concerns from distributors.[4]

Red Dawn

Odd, that they would change it from China to North Korea due to concerns from distributors? What concerns?

Originally posted by LeTan
That reminds me, I saw this a couple of months ago. The new movie Red Dawn, they are remaking it. Instead of Russians invading, it was the Chinese, then, changed to North Korea being the aggressor.

3] Instead of depicting a Soviet invasion of the United States as in the 1984 film, the 2011 version's storyline was originally filmed with a Chinese invasion. This was later edited to depict a North Korean invasion in post-production due to concerns from distributors.[4]

Red Dawn

Odd, that they would change it from China to North Korea due to concerns from distributors? What concerns?

edit on 17-7-2011 by LeTan because: (no reason given)

Odd yes, considering the logistics of editing an entire army, which is not like, one scene considering it's a war movie... how the heck... do they mean re-film it? Green-screen it? Digitally edit a gazillion army emblems from one country's symbol to another's? Any way I twist it, it's an awful lot of influence someone exacted. Why???

reply to post by new_here


Due to career experience, I can tell you that it would be a big task to fulfil such a change within post-production. The team would have been brought in for a meeting, specially arranged, senior hats in attendance, to give them the bad news. The fact that it was a movie about a land-based invasion; every scene would need individual treatment.

The bottom line, the reason for the edit, will be that the PTB had a concern over their planning..

''...Don't provoke the Chinese by depicting them getting their rears handed to them on a plate by Chuck Norris and his 'all-singing, all-dancing Gung-Ho Marines'. Not yet at any rate...

...They're likely to take offence, and the NWO isn't quite ready to deal with the Chinese; thought we were, but it seems they've been experimenting with BlueBeam ideas lately - we need more intel before direct provocations commence...''


The Great Work of the secretive shenanigan-masters keeps on trucking, despite interruptions and delays..

Besides, we all here should know that the high-end 'Hollywood Machine' is managed more tightly than an Albanian brothel. If they'd allowed production to remain as it was - and crucially if it became a box-office smash hit, it would most definitely have inspired a lot of anti-US sentiment - amongst all levels of the Chinese populace and war machine.

Which would have been precidely what was intended, imho. To the OP - excellent thread, and a good starting point to get an overview of the current political climate affecting the overall chance of world war.

I'll add in a few of the hints and tips that that my sources provide, if they seem relevant or useful, as time passes. Thank you for a wonderful thread in a sadly misunderstood / misused forum (WW3)

Ummmm i realize this site is running rampant with sci-fi video-Game playing, "the end of the world is near" teenagers, but exactly how does China ferry over enough troops without them being picked off the water? Do you know what logistics it would take for ANY country to try to come invade the US? Do you think this is the freaking armada scene out of the movie Troy or something? GIVE ME A BREAK!!!!

An invasion between superpowers is an impossibility.
Never going to happen.
Tactical nukes would take out any force ours or theirs.
However our dumb ass politicians may one day invite said troops to save their own heads from rolling.

A war between and China and the U.S would either be decades of vietnam style clashes or a situation where most of China and a chunk of the U.S eastern Seaboard was annihalated in about 3 days. Or quite possibly a slow advance into what was left of a United States that had undergone a political and economic collapse. Chinese "aid" and "investment" to a civil war shattered California.

Either way it seems a long way off. Unless the Chinese have a secret naval base somewhere with several armadas there is no way they could reach mainland America.

Whats more likely is the Chinese creating an atmosphere of dissent against the U.S government possibly helping along a movement seeking to break off.

All fair play in my opinion You Cry Tibet They Cry Texas.

I've got some news articles that point to gonna start a thread when i do 19 more posts.

Originally posted by FrankieNinja
reply to post by Ben81

 

And when the Chinese do try to visit our wonderful and unique in history, AMERICA, we would like to introduce them to our welcoming committee... The 2nd Amendment of The United States Constitution. (Sans Barry of course) and we will give them an updated version of the old Clint Eastwood movie..
The Good, The Bad and The Ugly.

Do you honestly think, you with your guns at home would make a difference? Give the Chinese some credit with their gumption. They wont just go marching in, they will be far more subtle than that. They are not interested in taking Prisoners/Civilians of War. They want land and resources, the human/native population use the resources that they want. Think, Biological and/or Chemical warfare. Think, economical and financial warfare. Think, Space Warfare. If the Chinese do ever decide to take on the US, it will be like no war ever fought before ... it will be a war of anihilation .... a total war, not fought by rules or conventions.

Originally posted by starwarsisreal
But isn't China too dependent of the US? I mean without the US buying all their products where would they get their funding?

If China were to launch a war, especially a limited nuclear war, their economy would be finished. Beijing may be run by Orwellian fascists but they're not suicidal.........

Originally posted by Ben81
There is a quote that say

When China will wake up
the entire earth will tremble
because of their massive army

They know that to win a war against the USA
an invasion would be the only solution
take US soil/civilians has hostage .. so the president wont launch any nuke on china cities

edit on 7/17/2011 by Ben81 because: (no reason given)

Don't be so naive. Our President doesn't control us, Jews do. They will spring up at anytime to allow white Christians to be killed. Why would they hesitate?