Possible 'Chemtrails' Dundee, Scotland, UK

Originally posted by Seagle
The OP states that he saw two planes flying close together ruling out commercial flights and that the entire mess was created by a group of four planes.

Commercial flight can fly close together horizontally, so long as they have 1000 vertical feet between them. You can't tell that difference from the ground.

The other examples you gave are of cloud seeding. The OP photos look nothing like cloud seeding. They look exactly like some contrail cirrus spreading out to cover the sky. Something that has happened for many decades.

Originally posted by Seagle

Yes and that is the perfect opportunity for a weather modification operation. Enhancing rainfall from the incoming weather system, minimising the possibilty of hail damage from the incoming weather system or even redirecting the weather system - Take your pick but don't just assume Contrails.

Now explain why anyone would do any of those things over Dundee? It's on the East coast of Scotland, and the weather moves from West to East.

They look like contrails.
They act like contrails.
They don't look like cloud seeding.
There's no reason to seed clouds over Dundee.

So why not assume they are contrails?

reply to post by Seagle


That is not cloud seeding

Cloud seeding happens at a much lower level than the levels at which contrails are formed. And clouds capable of rain need to be present for cloud seeding to actually work. It does not happen in clear sky conditions, as its absolutely pointless. You need super cooled water droplets present for the crystaline catalyst to bond to, to increase the size of the droplets, causing them to descend and fall as rain.

All the OP has shown is contrails spreading out, super saturating the upper air environment and causing a layer of cirrostratus to form.

Never understood the fascination with these so-called 'chem trails', it's just plane's burning fuel and exhaust emissions. You only see them depending on the temperature of the air and other atmospheric effects.

Originally posted by Soylent Green Is People
reply to post by Seagle

 

Besides the fact that there ARE methods that could supposed seed clouds to make it rain (these have been around for 60 years, and their effectiveness is questionable at best)...

...do you have any evidence that the OP's picture has anything to do with cloud seeding or rain-making?

Do you have any evidence that its not?

The OP asked a question and even used the 'Possible' yet in the first few replies we've already had the 'paranoid Chemtrailer' label thrown at them. I have as much evidence that this is the result of a weather modification operation as you do that they are 'normal' contrails. My point is that there are other possibilities and the high and mighty on here who claim Contrail beyond any doubt and scoff at the suggestion it could be anything else are wrong.

reply to post by Seagle


I don't care if others have called the OP paranoid. That's irrelevant to the question here. The question is whether or not the trails in that photo look in any way something out-of-the-ordinary.

I think they look like ordinary CONtrails. What is it about that photo that would make you say otherwise? You can tell me that weather modification exists, but the topic at hand is whether or not the OP's image shows anything other than normal contrails.

If you find evidence that the trails in the image are not exactly what they seem to be -- Contrails, then tell me that evidence...

For example:
If I posted a picture of a duck, and you told me it was a dragon, I would expect you to have evidence that it is really a dragon, even though it LOOKS like a duck -- rather than you asking me for proof that it isn't a dragon disguised as a duck.

Originally posted by Seagle
Do you have any evidence that its not?

There is evidence that it is not cloud seeding...

For one, clouds need to be present in order for them to be seeded. Cloud seeding doesn't work without clouds. In the OP's pictures most of the trails are in areas that don't have clouds.

reply to post by Seagle


Thanks for making it clear that you have no idea how cloud seeding works

Your argument is now irrelevant

Originally posted by Seagle

Are you saying that dumping salt at 7,000 ft will make persistent contrails?

These guys are just dumping salt into an existing cloud mass to help it precipitate. I don't understand how in any way that is similar to high level persistent contrails. It's made of salt, it is low, it doesn't persist

So lets say that these are very well indeed contrails and nothing out of the norm is happening here. Lets look at this issue then, what was indeed happening on this day that produced these contrials.

Commerical planes 100% NOT. They were flying in formation that i have never seen before, personally, any1 i know and all video and pics i have seen have never shown formation flying commerical airliners.

Also around 8 planes in a 10min timescale doing a criss cross formation in the sky i have also never seen commerical airliners do this. Of course next to the airports when landing or taking off but nearest airports are endinbrough/glasgow both around 70miles away.

Any thoughts on what these planes were cause i dont believe commerical airlines at all. Defo government/military based or smth else like chemtrails spraying i dont know.

Love some of the replys about being paranoid and being so silly and laughed at for believing chemtrails MIGHT happen. Not paranoid what so ever just know ppl here on ATS like a good conspricay and chemtrails are one here so presented some information for them.

Any thoughts and the planes then?

Red Arrows? They were in Edinburgh very recently.

reply to post by Drustew

Military, perhaps?

Even if not military, it could be normal high-altitude commercial traffic, say perhaps to and from Scandinavia and other Northern European places (although I don't know the air routes above Dundee). It wouldn't necessarily need to be from Edinburgh or Glasgow, but could be.

For example, I live about 100 miles (160 km) WNW of New York City, but I have a steady stream of planes flying over my house (a couple dozen per hour at peak times) that use the NY airports, because I am located directly under one of the main air routes.

Does anyone here have the air route charts for that area of Scotland?

By the way, it would be more likely for contrails to be formed from planes NOT originating at local airports, because contrails form at about 25,000 feet and above, and usually from planes cruising at 30,000 to 40,000 feet. Planes from local airports would not be at those altitudes.

Originally posted by Drustew

Also around 8 planes in a 10min timescale doing a criss cross formation in the sky i have also never seen commerical airliners do this. Of course next to the airports when landing or taking off but nearest airports are endinbrough/glasgow both around 70miles away.

I'd not be so quick to rule out commercial planes.

First of all, that's not really a criss-cross pattern. All of the planes except one are going in the same direction.

It's also not a "formation". At most you saw two planes flying so they looked close together, when one was most likely just a few thousand feet above the other - a difference that is impossible to see from the ground.

Where you are (Dundee, Scotland) , the planes making contrails are most likely passenger planes between the US and London/Europe. There's no rule that says these planes have to all fly evenly spaced. Delays in a take-off time can vary when the planes end up overhead of you.

The crossing flight would most likely be going between Dublin and somewhere like Tokyo.

Also, often contrail conditions are restricted to quite a narrow range of altitudes. But sometimes there's a much greater range of altitudes at which contrails form, so it looks like there are a lot more planes flying overhead.

So it's probably just ordinary traffic, but on a day where more flight paths show up a persistent spreading contrails. It's just the weather.

Originally posted by Soylent Green Is People

Does anyone here have the air route charts for that area of Scotland?

By the way, it would be more likely for contrails to be formed from planes NOT originating at local airports, because contrails form at about 25,000 feet and above, and usually from planes cruising at 30,000 to 40,000 feet. Planes from local airports would not be at those altitudes.

You can get a very good sense of this by watching this, over the UK, for a while:

www.flightradar24.com...

I see three planes heading over Dundee right now. One is Paris-Memphis, one is Cologne to Memphis, and one is Cologne to Louisville.

The site even has historical playback, so you might even be able to match up the photos to actual flights.

Originally posted by Seagle
Yes and that is the perfect opportunity for a weather modification operation. Enhancing rainfall from the incoming weather system, minimising the possibilty of hail damage from the incoming weather system or even redirecting the weather system - Take your pick but don't just assume Contrails.

Let me get this right. You think that, knowing that a low pressure system was moving in from the Atlantic, with fronts bringing heavy, slow moving rain to eastern Scotland, a secret cabal employed mysterious aircraft from some unknown bases to fly high above Scotland, before the front arrived, spraying some mysterious substance that replicates contrails, so that when the front arrived the next day, it would augment the rainfall (why? there's been plenty enough rain up there of later) or prevent hail (why? hail was not expected, indeed we very rarely get big hailstorms in this country) or redirect the system (where? it went exactly where it was forecast to go).

You do know what cloud seeding is and how it (allegedly) works don't you?


It may be that the aircraft responsible were military, though commercial transatlantic airlines/freight traffic seem just as likely given the location.

I have witnessed this also today, i have been between arbroath / letham / dundee today and they were everywhere!. When i was in lethem around 12pm i was actualy able to see the planes turn in the sky and head back the direction they came. This was witnessed by 22 football players on the pitch i was playing on!. The planes then made x's and ovals all over the place in the space of 10 mins. We all seen at least 3 planes make weird flight path adjustments and then i went to arbroath and witnessed the same there. I counted 15 individual trails above arbroath. By the time i got to dundee around 3pm i couldnt beleive the amount there as well. ( i have pics if some one can explain to me ow to post them)

www.guardian.co.uk... this article from the gurdian proves stuff like spraying crap on people has happened in the past so why not now?

Originally posted by maxpower12
www.guardian.co.uk... this article from the gurdian proves stuff like spraying crap on people has happened in the past so why not now?

So you think that because in the past there were a very limited number of low altitude dispersement tests of a substance though to be harmless, and which did not leave a trail, then .... what? The same thing is happening now?

Originally posted by maxpower12
I have witnessed this also today, i have been between arbroath / letham / dundee today and they were everywhere!. When i was in lethem around 12pm i was actualy able to see the planes turn in the sky and head back the direction they came. This was witnessed by 22 football players on the pitch i was playing on!. The planes then made x's and ovals all over the place in the space of 10 mins. We all seen at least 3 planes make weird flight path adjustments and then i went to arbroath and witnessed the same there. I counted 15 individual trails above arbroath. By the time i got to dundee around 3pm i couldnt beleive the amount there as well. ( i have pics if some one can explain to me ow to post them)

Have a look at the satellite image for that day:
lance-modis.eosdis.nasa.gov...

You can see the shadows of contrails over the clouds in several places. Pretty cool.

yes i am suggesting that there is tests going on now and back then!, so what else are they Testing now? the sat pics u posted show nothing to prove your point so why post it? If you want to get educated on them watch this scientist and see the things they are finding, illuminum? barium? plus a new fibre? look back to france when that village got sprayed with lsd (which has been verified as actually happened) or the village in england that was sprayed with cancer causing crap! it's all there and admitted! like i say if they did it then with their "new tech" then why not now?. i suggest mr debunker u watch this and perhaps take your debunk hat off and watch with an open mind ( if you are capable) www.youtube.com...

"The results from these trials_ will save lives, should the country or our forces face an attack by chemical and biological weapons.'
Asked whether such tests are still being carried out, she said: 'It is not our policy to discuss ongoing research.'" Did u read the full article or do you just like debunking?