It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Harold Camping's 'Rapture' Real Aftermath: Beheadings, Shootings, Mass Graves

page: 1
10
<<   2  3 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jul, 14 2011 @ 06:43 PM
link   
False prophet Harold Camping's announcement that the Rapture would occur on May 21st of this year appears to have had some serious consequences for tribesmen in the hills of Vietnam. It seems after listening to Camping's broadcast via shortwave radio, around 7,000 Hmong (Montangard) gathered on a hilltop to praise God for returning to save them from the brutal persecution they have been suffering at the hands of the atheistic communists. What happened next is tragic beyond words.


The police and military police slaughtered many of them at gunpoint – beheading two pastors. Others were arrested. I am told by Hmong pastors that so many were shot dead that they were buried in mass graves bulldozed over in an episode that I read about in Britain but did not understand the magnitude of until I got here.

Now "their families don't know if their missing loved ones are among the many shot dead, among those arrested and imprisoned, or among those from the 7,000 hiding in the jungle,"

Read more: 'Rapture' real aftermath: Beheadings, shootings, mass graves www.wnd.com...


When he learned of the tragedy, did Camping feel the slightest bit of remorse or accept any responsibility?


Camping said, "Murdering is terrible. It is contrary to everything the Bible teaches. That would have been a horrible thing if she has done that. That will make me weep. That will fill me with sorrow that she would do that. The Bible teaches that we are to save life, not kill. If it is going to be death, leave it to God. God knows who He wants to kill and make alive. That is His business, not our business."

Asked if he would take responsibility for such incidents, Camping said no. "I don't have any responsibility. I can't be responsible for anybody's lives," he explained. "I am only teaching the Bible. I am not teaching what I believe, as if I am the authority. I am just simply teaching what the Bible says. And I don't have spiritual rule over anybody."


edit on 7/14/2011 by OldCorp because: spellin and punkshoeashion



posted on Jul, 14 2011 @ 06:44 PM
link   
What a friggin SCUMBAG this "preacher" is!


He has absolutely NO compassion for these people. Who knows how many hundreds, or thousands, of people are dead because they listened to and believed his false prophecy?

I know one thing is for sure: When he is standing before God, Camping is gonna have a lot of explaining to do.



posted on Jul, 14 2011 @ 06:54 PM
link   
reply to post by OldCorp
 


Yes this is very sick.

Harold Camping's message has ruined the lives of tens of thousands of people. He has taken advantage of their faith for financial gains, and to gain notoriety. If anyone believes his second prediction they are fools.

But I am very curious of the action committed in Vietnam. I read a story not to long ago about these tribal Christians being chased off by the police on May 21st but nothing about killings. If this is true than this is genocide. Is there any other evidence to support these allegations?
edit on 14-7-2011 by Openeye because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 14 2011 @ 06:56 PM
link   
In all fairness though, how can he be held responsible for the actions of other? He interprets the Bible in his own way, as misguided as he is, and its up to others on whether or not they follow his belief. He already had it wrong one time before so its not like he had much creditability to begin with. The deaths should be blamed on the ones that caused it. We can not keep blaming others for our own actions.



posted on Jul, 14 2011 @ 07:00 PM
link   


If anyone believes his second prediction they are fools.


I would have to say that anyone who believed his first prediction is a fool...

Yes he made a prediction that may have influenced some people to do crazy things but when it comes down to it they were the ones who made the decisions that led to their death not Harold Camping. And just for reference I am not a fan of the man just pointing out the obvious.



posted on Jul, 14 2011 @ 07:07 PM
link   
Wow its really unfortunate on what happened and I am no fan Mr.Camping but in all fairness it isnt his fault they liv in such a repressive regime that getting killed for praying to have the government toppled by Jesus. Like what "should" he say? " Yeah I am really sorry guys uh il take the blame for a government killing its people over an absurd prediction" In his statement he showed compassion, just not taking responsibility and why should he? I don't mean to be a troll but the man really didn't do anything but make an absolute dumb prediction and people can take it as just that.



posted on Jul, 14 2011 @ 07:08 PM
link   
reply to post by Openeye
 


you mean his 3rd or 4th prediction? He is not new to this my friend. My 21st was not the first of his nonsensical garbage. That being said he is not much different than any other preacher. Think about it.
edit on 14-7-2011 by AllUrChips because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 14 2011 @ 07:08 PM
link   

Originally posted by Openeye
reply to post by OldCorp
 


But I am very curious of the action committed in Vietnam. I read a story not to long ago about these tribal Christians being chased off by the police on May 21st but nothing about killings. If this is true than this is genocide. Is there any other evidence to support these allegations?


From what I can gather, at this point there is only the testimony of "James Jacob Prasch, a key leader of Moriel Ministries, which emphasizes the 'last days apostasy' discussed in the Bible and ministers to persecuted church members.

The organization describes itself as a "teaching ministry to believers" that brings awareness of issues such as the "social gospel" and ecumenical efforts that "masquerade" as Christianity."

I know Internet wisdom is "pics or it didn't happen," but I don't see where the guy would have anything to gain by making this up. And apparently persecution of Christians is the norm in Vietnam.



posted on Jul, 14 2011 @ 07:13 PM
link   
Show me personal independent equal violence so rampant that atheism is to be blamed on specifically...show me someone suicide bombing innocent women and children screaming the name of Darwin and holding a science book up...

This is a post from a thread a few days ago. We were debating acts of violence being committed in the name of religion. My stance is that horrible acts are committed in the name of almost anything, nationalism, race, sexual preference, religion, and yes atheism.

This story only solidifies my argument.



posted on Jul, 14 2011 @ 07:14 PM
link   

Originally posted by wardk28
In all fairness though, how can he be held responsible for the actions of other? He interprets the Bible in his own way, as misguided as he is, and its up to others on whether or not they follow his belief. He already had it wrong one time before so its not like he had much creditability to begin with. The deaths should be blamed on the ones that caused it. We can not keep blaming others for our own actions.


I see your point, but he should have known that there would be violence, hysteria, and even suicides among some people. A person who is listened to by millions - and knows it - can't just say, "Oh well, not my problem" and not bear at least some responsibility. I know if something I said led to the death of even ONE innocent person I'd feel tremendous guilt; but then again, I have a conscience - apparently Camping does not.



posted on Jul, 14 2011 @ 07:16 PM
link   
reply to post by OldCorp
 


I think the fact that Camping had a stroke that severely affected his speech speaks volumes about the judgement of God.



posted on Jul, 14 2011 @ 07:21 PM
link   
reply to post by OldCorp
 


Yes religious persecution is very harsh in Vietnam (I know a few people who used to live there) and is especially bad for the small Christian community there.

I am just skeptical that is why I ask. While religion is discouraged there it is still tolerated. I do not believe the government would endorse the execution of a large group of Christians, simply because they are attempting to improve the image of their country. I would just like to hear some more witness testimony, I would not think they would have documented the killings so expecting pictures or video is naive.



posted on Jul, 14 2011 @ 07:23 PM
link   
He could be on his 5th prediction and there would still be people who believe him and giving him money. This quote from one of the One Family Radio board members always cracks me up: “I don’t know where we went wrong other than that we obviously don’t understand the Scriptures in the way that we should.”.



posted on Jul, 14 2011 @ 07:24 PM
link   

Originally posted by OldCorp

Originally posted by wardk28
In all fairness though, how can he be held responsible for the actions of other? He interprets the Bible in his own way, as misguided as he is, and its up to others on whether or not they follow his belief. He already had it wrong one time before so its not like he had much creditability to begin with. The deaths should be blamed on the ones that caused it. We can not keep blaming others for our own actions.


I see your point, but he should have known that there would be violence, hysteria, and even suicides among some people. A person who is listened to by millions -
The problem with your arugument is that because some people might react radical he must censor his msg. Its not the same as if camping was in a theatre yelling fire and to get out of immediate danger. You should be more upset with the fact that these killings don't get recognized by the U.N as a human rights issue.



posted on Jul, 14 2011 @ 07:25 PM
link   

Originally posted by micmerci
Show me personal independent equal violence so rampant that atheism is to be blamed on specifically...show me someone suicide bombing innocent women and children screaming the name of Darwin and holding a science book up...

This is a post from a thread a few days ago. We were debating acts of violence being committed in the name of religion. My stance is that horrible acts are committed in the name of almost anything, nationalism, race, sexual preference, religion, and yes atheism.

This story only solidifies my argument.


I'll go you one better than "equal."

Stalin's regime killed upwards of 20 million people.
Pol Pot's regime killed 2 million through execution, planned disease, and starvation: 20% of the country's population.
Mao's regime executed an unknown number of Chinese, but estimates range in the tens of millions.
And then there are the tens of millions killed by Hitler's Germany and Hirohito Japan during WWII.

So I would say that Atheist regimes bear the lion's share of murder, while true religious violence - while it does indeed occur - isn't nearly as statistically significant.

ETA: What I wrote above was from memory. Here is a link that you might find very enlightening: www.godandscience.org...
edit on 7/14/2011 by OldCorp because: added link



posted on Jul, 14 2011 @ 07:29 PM
link   
Christian or not, persecution of the Hmong peoples is the norm in Vietnam and other repressive regimes.

Tragedy of the Hmong People


For many years, the Hmong people fought at our request with incredible bravery and tenacity, greatly slowing the advance of the North Vietnamese into Laos and South Vietnam. Their fighter pilots, some of the most dazzling aces ever, fought until they died in a desperate war with inadequate support. They sacrificed thousands of their lives in deadly missions that ultimately saved thousands of American lives. The U.S. got them into war against our enemies, trained, them, urged them to fight, depended on their bravery, then broke our promises to them as we pulled out without doing anything to protect them against the terrible revenge that was promised and has been delivered.


Originally, the Hmong people held animist (shamanistic) beliefs. In fact, it's a part of their culture they're trying to hold on to here in the US where many fear their culture is dying. So, I think the murdering, if it did happen, probably has less to do with Jesus and more to do with an old score to settle. Saying it is all about persecution of Christians while ignoring the history kind of furthers the cause of the "Last Days" movement. It's the proof they need that the last days indeed are here.



posted on Jul, 14 2011 @ 07:31 PM
link   
reply to post by OldCorp
 


I agree with you but the bashers were arguing that Hitler acted in the name of Christianity. I think that although he had a Christian background, he fell away from the faith but used that religion as a rallying point for the people.



posted on Jul, 14 2011 @ 07:33 PM
link   

Originally posted by tonyinawareness

The problem with your arugument is that because some people might react radical he must censor his msg. Its not the same as if camping was in a theatre yelling fire and to get out of immediate danger. You should be more upset with the fact that these killings don't get recognized by the U.N as a human rights issue.


Of course they aren't recognized by the UN. Where was the UN (or the US for that matter) during the genocide in Rwanda? Where was the UN when Muslims were being massacred by Christian Serbs during the Balkan wars? The UN is as worthless as tits on a bull IMHO.

One thing that really makes me mad at Camping is his total disregard for one of the most clearly spelled verses in the Bible, one that a kindergartner could understand, regarding the Rapture: "NO ONE knows the day or the hour, not even the angels in Heaven, but the Father ONLY." It was Camping's haughty pride which led to all of this. For him to still not acknowledge his mistake is incredible to me.



posted on Jul, 14 2011 @ 07:34 PM
link   
reply to post by OldCorp
 


You cant blame him for other peoples actions.

People need to be accountable for their own actions. He merely spoke his mind. Did I decide to go and kill my family? No.

This isn't his fault, regardless of him being a false prophet. I understand the anger, but it is a choice that is made by others who took the lives of those people, not Camping.



posted on Jul, 14 2011 @ 07:39 PM
link   

Originally posted by OldCorp



Asked if he would take responsibility for such incidents, Camping said no. "I don't have any responsibility. I can't be responsible for anybody's lives," he explained. "I am only teaching the Bible. I am not teaching what I believe, as if I am the authority. I am just simply teaching what the Bible says. And I don't have spiritual rule over anybody."


If he was just teaching the Bible, was the Bible wrong?

No, it was Camping that was wrong, and he is therefore NOT teaching the Bible (which remains inerrant).

Camping is a liar and is as culpable as "the father of lies".

A tree is known by its fruit.

edit on 14/7/2011 by chr0naut because: (no reason given)



new topics

top topics



 
10
<<   2  3 >>

log in

join