Roswell debris tested - - Not from Earth

It beggars belief that this would be removed when other threads of the 'something might happen today' variety are allowed to take up server space.

It may turn out to be nothing but its more worthy of following than most of the 'breaking news' that gets posted.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
Aluminum as such is not found in a raw form, so a sample is going to display some manufacturing properties. Methods such as ion-exchange chromatography will show such properties. If aluminum is not made that way, it begs the question "Where is it from?"

Oh well... then it must be from outer space!

Really...on a supposed UFO crash site, the OP's assertion is not that way out of line.

Sure it is, and it's a disgrace to the notion of UFO research to suggest that a small piece of a (known) version of aluminum, in the desert, decades after the reported crash could be extraterrestrial in origin.
It could be bits from an aluminum cookware set designed for camping, left in the fire too long decades ago

C'mon...I'm saying an anomalous metal fragment found on on what is purported to be a UFO crash site is worthy of more attention than something found in a standard 20th century midden.

Also, did I miss the part where the sample displayed the same characteristics as burnt cookware? I'm not saying that it is 'otherworldly' in origin...I'm saying that given all the circumstances surrounding the find, it's worth a serious analysis. Really...like I said...what would you investigate on a crash site of any kind? Something anomalous to the environment, and this is what we apparently have here.
Opinions, including arbitrary debunking, are worthless without further investigation. I'm surprised you are not advocating that point.

Or is this merely an SO 'stir the pot' day?

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
It could be bits from an aluminum cookware set designed for camping, left in the fire too long decades ago.

Are you suggesting aliens do not use cookware? Isn't it entirely possible that visitors from space were cooking something and left cookware by accident?

This could lead to disclosure.

And a new out-of-this-world cooking show.

Lets not overlook the possibilities here.

But I get what you're saying...I guess "rational thinking" has its place in this thread as well.

MM

Originally posted by Havick007
So if further testing does show that the results contained no errors then there is a chance that these may be fragments from 'outer space' - a metorite or remants of one?

Aluminum in meteorites is rare... but it does exist. I just bought one a few days ago

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/73101639ed8d.png[/atsimg]

Originally posted by zorgon
Aluminum in meteorites is rare... but it does exist. I just bought one a few days ago

Looks like melted cookware to me...any flapjack residue apparent?

First of all the article seems to point to Magnesium as the main metal within the alloy that is clearly not of earth origin correct? After researching the element Magnesium I read that it's not naturally found on earth by itself, so does that mean that most of it on earth did originally come from outer space? If it is an alloy of many different metals or elements which supposedly all originated from somewhere other than earth why is the isotope count not skewed in those metals?

p.s. Even if Aluminum was in a meteorite it has such a low melting point that any of it present would be melted before it ever touched the earth.

reply to post by Thestargateisreal


I thought MgO was naturally occuring... either that or my entire high school lied to me.

Originally posted by beauty from pain
reply to post by Thestargateisreal

 

I thought MgO was naturally occuring... either that or my entire high school lied to me.

After studying physics post high school, a lot of high school stuff turns out to be "false"/watered down in actual fact. Probably the same for other subjects.

The major element in the sample is said to be aluminum. Particular attention was paid to the isotopic ratios of magnesium, a minor constituent of the sample. It is not clear if the aluminum or other elements had anomalous isotope ratios, too. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that they did. Perhaps the divergence of the magnesium isotope ratio from the norm was the greatest of any of the elements, and so it was singled out as the best evidence, least likely to be due to error. Yes, a very long time ago, when our planet was forming, everything that makes up the Earth and everything on it, including people, came from space. The circumstances at that time give matter on Earth consistent, unique isotopic ratios. Anything coming onto Earth more recently will have its own unique isotopic 'fingerprint', due to the different circumstances under which it formed. Even meteorites, with which we share the same Sun have somewhat different ratios. They were formed far away from Earth, in the asteroid belt. The Roswell sample is reported to have an isotope ratio much further from the norm than even meteorites. It seems that it came from somewhere which formed under very different conditions than in our solar system. Ross

from the article:

Using a micro-probe, they were able to determine the material’s composition. It turned out to be an aluminum, silicon, manganese, copper alloy. It is not unknown, but it is used in construction and not usually found in a foil form.

So, I'm confused.

It seems the article says up front that this particular aluminum alloy was not unknown -- in fact it is an alloy used in construction...
...but then they go on to say it could not have been manufactured on Earth because of the magnesium isotopes (something they seem to have stated as fact, but did not explain very well).

My question is this:
Is it a known alloy or not? The info in the article seems to be conflicting.

Magnesium does occur naturally on Earth. It comprises about 2% of the Earth's crust by mass. This article is talking about ratios of magnesium isotopes. Magnesium exists as an atom, an individual unit of the element. Elements are defined basically by the number of protons, neutrons, and electrons within the atom. Each element contains the same number of protons and electrons (in atomic form). But there exist different versions of each element, which have different numbers of neutrons (which do not affect the charge but only the mass of the atom). All elements have the potential to form isotopes.

This article is talking about the ratios of isotopes of magnesium found in the sample. Magnesium with an Earthly origin will be comprised of certain regular ratios of different magnesium isotopes. The sample in the article apparently has ratios of magnesium isotopes which are different enough from Earthly magnesium that they might be of extraterrestrial (non-Earth) origin.

Hope that clears things up. I do not have enough knowledge to comment on the legitimacy of this research, but it seems sound to me. Thanks for posting! This could be big news.

reply to post by VraxUK


What they mean is its not naturally occurring as a free element. You cant dig up a nugget of magnesium but it is very common as an element overall. There is lots of it dissolved in seawater.

I can see 4 possibilities here:

1. The tests are wrong, its a common earth alloy
2. Its a naturally occurring alloy of extraterrestrial origin (a meteorite)
3. Its an alloy worked using an element taken from a meteorite
4. Its a fragment of a crashed UFO

reply to post by tetsuo


you beat me to it, i hate posting redundant answers....doh

Originally posted by justwokeup
I can see 4 possibilities here:

1. The tests are wrong, its a common earth alloy
2. Its a naturally occurring alloy of extraterrestrial origin (a meteorite)
3. Its an alloy worked using an element taken from a meteorite
4. Its a fragment of a crashed UFO

justwokeup --

I was about to ask if #3 was possible.

Do you (or anyone else out there) know if it is unheard of for a manufactured alloy to include material that may have come from a meteorite? I realize it would not be common, and most likely would be unintentional, but is there any evidence of this happening?

I assume that a large enough meteor impact may yield a relatively large localized area of elemental magnesium with this isotopic ratio. How likely or unlikely might it be for this elemental magnesium from a meteorite to be used in the production of aluminum? Has this been known to happen?

I'm not a metallurgist, so I have absolutely no idea (hence my questions).

reply to post by Soylent Green Is People


Its possible, and I included it for completeness but I don't see any reason why it would be done deliberately.

Using meteorites as a source for minerals hasn't been necessary since early human toolmaking.

With regard to the last part of your question, contamination of the production magnesium with meteorite material, I don't know. It seems almost as much of an outside chance as number 4 on the list.

reply to post by justwokeup

I'm not asking if it could be done intentionally...
I was just wondering if it has known to have happened -- i.e., have samples of alloys that have been known to be manufactured on Earth ever show signs that the materials used to manufacture the alloy may (unintentionally) have come from a meteorite?


EDIT TO ADD:
Thanks -- your edit addressed this question.

reply to post by Soylent Green Is People


edited previous answer. sorry, didn't read the question properly. Doing too many things at once.

reply to post by justwokeup
The possibility of laboratory error seems pretty low. If I recall correctly, a given test would be run several times to rule this out. If only one test of several showed the odd isotope ratio, it would probably be discarded as erroneous. I haven't seen a great deal about the isotopic range of meteoric magnesium. I do know that a chondrite meteorite is shown on the chart in the the openminds article. It shows a deviation from the normal Earth isotopic ratio only about half that of this Roswell sample.

Originally posted by justwokeup
reply to post by Soylent Green Is People

 

Its possible, and I included it for completeness but I don't see any reason why it would be done deliberately.

Using meteorites as a source for minerals hasn't been necessary since early human toolmaking.

With regard to the last part of your question, contamination of the production magnesium with meteorite material, I don't know. It seems almost as much of an outside chance as number 4 on the list.

edit on 13-7-2011 by justwokeup because: didn't fully read the question first time round....

By number 4, do you mean the sample labelled Chondrite? Chondrite is the only sample on the graph which is of definite ET-origin, thus it being so far off the curve.

I think that unintentionally using ET-origin materials for manufacturing whatever human objects is the most likely non-ET reason for the anomalous results. Like if a huge meteorite saturated a large area with ET magnesium which was later mined and manufactured.

Meteorites and objects of ET origin are very valuable to collectors and science so it's doubtful that it would be purposeful (I know you already mentioned this - just saying that I agree wholeheartedly).

reply to post by tetsuo


More lab work needed.

Lets get confirmation from multiple accredited sources that the alloy contains an element of extra terrestrial origin and it isn't a lab error. Once thats in the bag it leaves the other options and I don't see where you go from there to reach a definitive conclusion.