PROOF that God is Just

reply to post by NeverSleepingEyes


Name someone that does not support this division.

As for myself. Well I haven't been raped, I haven't been mugged for drug money and I haven't been molested. I was once punched. Actually I was punched twice and then kicked in the head by a drunk guy, but the interesting thing about it is that I didn't have a mark on me. Not one scratch, not even a bruise, I guess his fists just so happened to land in just the right spot so as not to harm me in any way shape or form.

People have told me in the past that I seem to have a knack for falling into a pile of crap yet come out smelling like a rose.

Edit: I've noticed this knack myself. I'm not trying to toot my own horn here, just giving an honest answer.


Edit Edit: Also interesting is that over the last four years I have effectively been homeless but only one night did I spend without a roof. I tell people they can ask me to leave whenever they like and yet they do not ask me to leave. Eventually when the time comes that I need to leave there has always been another place for me to go. I have never begged, merely asked if I could stay for however long they were willing to allow me to stay.

My current residence I didn't even ask, a room here was offered.


Now that I think about it I haven't even once fallen ill over the last four years, not even a cold. To be honest my whole life sicknesses have been rare, but in over four years not once have I been sick.


Last edit I think. That time I was punched I was with a friend who also got punched, he received one punch to the eye and went blind for a week.


Okay okay one more edit. He went blind in one eye for a week, after that he had some deformation of the image in that eye for another month.


Aaaaaaaand one more edit for the heck of it. As far as the punching situation is concerned the best I've been able to come up with is my beard. The punches and kick landed around my rear jaw bone area and perhaps my beard cushioned the blows.

Originally posted by Symbiot
reply to post by NeverSleepingEyes

 

Name someone that does not support this division.

Well, as I clearly indicated, I asked for an assumption to be shared for the sake of the argument.
You know, it's like accepting the assumption that there is a god, just to be able to share an argument. it would be silly in such case to ask "name me a god".

but since you asked it, let's see... what can i come up with?
If we assume we know anything about the guy who's known as the Buddha (*), or even that this person ever existed and indeed grew over the brain's tendency towards dualism... then maybe the Buddha is a person not making distinctions?

(*) I'm an atheist who's inspired by buddhism, something I tend to call a pragmatism based on psychological understanding of the self, not a religion, not at all.

Some married men don't deserve their wives, does that mean god is unjust? I don't get it.

There is no empirical evidence or logical reasoning that suggests a deity exists, there would be no Atheist Vs Theist/Deist debate if it was to the contrary.

It's an unfalsifiable hypothesis; it can't be proved true (but not implying it's definetly false either). But much like Fortune Telling or Tarot Card Reading; cold reading is required; conjuring words, revealing the unknown - In a religious sense; off-loading human characterists onto the creator and telling people what they want to hear.

No rational athiest should state "GOD doesn't exist" because that would imply they know for CERTAIN - it would be as irrational as those who state "God DOES exist"; however; often the deities of religion can be easily falsified. E.g. a God that intervenes in geological and human affairs.

Claiming that a deity exists is 1 claim; claiming to understand the mind of the deity is an entirely different claim; and no less extra-ordinary.

Originally posted by Symbiot
reply to post by Heartisblack

 

Makes perfect sense to me.

Example: Israel and Palestine, they deserve each other because they're both acting like children with bombs throwing a temper tantrum. Same goes for the rest of humanity.

oh..I see..so all the children who are born into this ,deserve it as well ?

Most of the bomb throwing,and war games are done by a very small percentage of humans..the rest of us have to live with consequences we did not choose. If you call that just...well..I hope you never become a judge.

reply to post by Symbiot

The raped woman supports a system where poor people are denied access to dopamine, because of this she is raped in someones ravenous attempt to obtain dopamine. She should not have supported a system that denied them that dope.

If you can actually justify that in your mind..you have some serious issues,and need help...

reply to post by Symbiot

The raped woman supports a system where poor people are denied access to dopamine, because of this she is raped in someones ravenous attempt to obtain dopamine. She should not have supported a system that denied them that dope.

You are insane, and a perfect example of what is wrong with organized religion.

honestly, you just told us all that a rape victim deserved to be raped. You are telling us children deserve to be molested.

You are sick, your god is sick, and I have no need for you or your esoteric "god".

Originally posted by phishyblankwaters

You are insane, and a perfect example of what is wrong with organized religion.

honestly, you just told us all that a rape victim deserved to be raped. You are telling us children deserve to be molested.

You are sick, your god is sick, and I have no need for you or your esoteric "god".

The God I follow is pure and full of love and compassion. I would have to agree that it's a sick, demented, twisted god that thinks the things mentioned in this thread are "fair" or "just". My God would not condone rape and murder and write it all off as simply as "well the victim deserved it", and the premise of this thread that God is "just" because people deserve each other is so patently absurd and nonsensical that it hardly warrants a response. There is a lot of evil in this world and no one deserves evil. People do not deserve the treatment they receive at the hands of others. They don't deserve to watch 3 of their kids starve and die while they're on a multi-day journey to a refuge where they hope they can find food. They don't deserve to have their children forced to watch them being killed and their wife raped all because they refused to convert to a particular religion. Children don't deserve to be raped, murdered, cut up and thrown out like garbage. Yet these events are ripped from headlines in the last two days alone. The fact that these things happen in no way indicates the God approves of them, and it's certainly not evidence that God is "just". If anything, these events point towards there being no God at all based simply on the fact that they happen, in this respect I can actually sympathize with why many atheists don't believe. But I do believe that these things will be made right, that the world will be repaired and cleansed and that after it's all done we'll understand why it all happened. But admittedly, it's very difficult to make sense of right now.

Many individuals suffer from various issues that were just bestowed upon them, often times by others or forces that are incomprehensible to most of you. God is not just, God is neutral, and God is infinite. We are a part of infinite and thereby, a part of God. There are also things like psychotic rapists, pathological liars, giant sharks that will eat you, as well as rogue asteroids and black holes that are a part of "God".

Infinite is filled with things that can be perceived as relatively "Bad" or "Good" depending on your disposition and reference point.

So, if a person or group of persons or entities is claiming to be the one and only "God" and is going around doing things like bestowing people with biological issues, genetic alteration to keep human beings oppressed, inter dimensional beings using humans as feeding sources while harming the hosts, or people traversing dreams and attacking people through sleep, these beings, are not just, they are a part of "God", but they are, from my perspective, bad and worthy of expulsion from this place if they don't stop #ing with people and instead bringing joy to the lives of those around us. Why? Because i am 99% certain i have been directly attacked in one to all of the above. Don't ask me about my beliefs, ask me about my God-damned experiences and you'll come to find that we are an incredibly capable species being held down by the waning manifestees of control and reality...so to speak.

If reincarnation does exist, why would someone that was 'terrible' in the last life time be returned as a tortured mess? Wouldn't it be the goal of any "good" being or aspect of "God" to try and make as many people on this Earth enlightened and happy while existing harmoniously and as free as possible? Sounds like your so called singular God-head is an over-controlling, manipulative, paranoid ass hole that wants nothing, but to maintain his order on space-time around this planet and system. Besides, many of the current set of systems and circumstances on this planet are pitiful and downright nasty. They largely revolve around fear and pain to reorient people rather than happiness and true pleasure. Dopamine is just one chemical and a fraction of the system of reward. It also is no excuse for certain things, specifically when one is acutely AWARE of what it is they are doing wrong. Keeping an individual oblivious to something that they themselves are doing to others, which that person would perceive what they themselves are doing is bad, is beyond bad, it's #ing maniacal. I wouldn't wish that upon anyone, not even the one that bestowed it upon them.


Prepare for the great divulge.

Originally posted by Symbiot
reply to post by megabytz

 

I didn't say proof that God existed, I said proof that he is just.

I could say that the state of the world today is just as everyone is getting what they deserve and they deserve each other.

I know exactly what you said. If you read my post you would see that I addressed exactly what was in your original post.

It still makes as much sense as what I said.

And saying that he is just implies that he exists.

reply to post by Symbiot


I know exactly what you said.

Conflict and turmoil in the world in no way suggests that there is a just god.

It suggests that if there is a god he/she/it is a malevolent god.

I never said that you claimed god existed, but if you claim he is just then you claim he exists.

All I said is you may want to elaborate on your original post because it was as vague and made as much sense as my first response to you.

Originally posted by Hydroman
Some married men don't deserve their wives, does that mean god is unjust? I don't get it.

They chose the wife did they not? If they are not happy with their choice they can file for divorce.

One might say that divorce is a lengthy process and the husband could end up losing half of his estate and does he deserve such loss if it is his wife who is the problem in the relationship. He certainly does not have to give her half of everything he owns, but he pays a government that will forcefully make him. Those are his own employees that are forcing him to give her half of his estate. Ya get what ya pay for eh?

Originally posted by megabytz
reply to post by Symbiot

 

I know exactly what you said.

Conflict and turmoil in the world in no way suggests that there is a just god.

It suggests that if there is a god he/she/it is a malevolent god.

I never said that you claimed god existed, but if you claim he is just then you claim he exists.

All I said is you may want to elaborate on your original post because it was as vague and made as much sense as my first response to you.

I didn't mean to be vague, though I think my point was further explained throughout this thread. At one point I said to someone that had a similar problem with my post that they might try reading my title as "PROOF that Nature is just." This way you can remove the God element if you so choose, but the premise really stays the same. The idea is that people claim injustices, but I see no injustices only people that get out what they have put in. Again I think I have explained that well throughout this thread, it's probably not necessary for me to repeat a lot of what I have already said. NeverSleepingEyes and myself had a decent back and forth, try checking my replies to him (maybe her I dunno.)

Originally posted by phishyblankwaters
reply to post by Symbiot

 

The raped woman supports a system where poor people are denied access to dopamine, because of this she is raped in someones ravenous attempt to obtain dopamine. She should not have supported a system that denied them that dope.

You are insane, and a perfect example of what is wrong with organized religion.

honestly, you just told us all that a rape victim deserved to be raped. You are telling us children deserve to be molested.

You are sick, your god is sick, and I have no need for you or your esoteric "god".

Putting the blinders on to the truth will only prolong your suffering in this world of hatred. Here you are spreading hatred personally, so who is the sick one?

I am merely making an observation. I said I do not condone the act of rape and that I believe the rapist is as much to blame as the raped. You seem to be under the assumption that a person is born a rapist or something of the like, but this is not true. It is our society that turns a person into a rapist and if you support that society then you have a hand in creating that rapist.

Believe me I would like to see that no one is ever raped again, but the only thing I can do is tell you why it happens in the hopes that you will hear me and stop creating rapists. Until you realize that you are the one creating rapists they will not cease to exist.

You can throw rapists in jail if you like, but in truth you are only spraying potpourri over the problem rather then attacking the source.

Originally posted by xacto
Many individuals suffer from various issues that were just bestowed upon them, often times by others or forces that are incomprehensible to most of you. God is not just, God is neutral, and God is infinite. We are a part of infinite and thereby, a part of God. There are also things like psychotic rapists, pathological liars, giant sharks that will eat you, as well as rogue asteroids and black holes that are a part of "God".

Infinite is filled with things that can be perceived as relatively "Bad" or "Good" depending on your disposition and reference point.

So, if a person or group of persons or entities is claiming to be the one and only "God" and is going around doing things like bestowing people with biological issues, genetic alteration to keep human beings oppressed, inter dimensional beings using humans as feeding sources while harming the hosts, or people traversing dreams and attacking people through sleep, these beings, are not just, they are a part of "God", but they are, from my perspective, bad and worthy of expulsion from this place if they don't stop #ing with people and instead bringing joy to the lives of those around us. Why? Because i am 99% certain i have been directly attacked in one to all of the above. Don't ask me about my beliefs, ask me about my God-damned experiences and you'll come to find that we are an incredibly capable species being held down by the waning manifestees of control and reality...so to speak.

If reincarnation does exist, why would someone that was 'terrible' in the last life time be returned as a tortured mess? Wouldn't it be the goal of any "good" being or aspect of "God" to try and make as many people on this Earth enlightened and happy while existing harmoniously and as free as possible? Sounds like your so called singular God-head is an over-controlling, manipulative, paranoid ass hole that wants nothing, but to maintain his order on space-time around this planet and system. Besides, many of the current set of systems and circumstances on this planet are pitiful and downright nasty. They largely revolve around fear and pain to reorient people rather than happiness and true pleasure. Dopamine is just one chemical and a fraction of the system of reward. It also is no excuse for certain things, specifically when one is acutely AWARE of what it is they are doing wrong. Keeping an individual oblivious to something that they themselves are doing to others, which that person would perceive what they themselves are doing is bad, is beyond bad, it's #ing maniacal. I wouldn't wish that upon anyone, not even the one that bestowed it upon them.


Prepare for the great divulge.

edit on 13-7-2011 by xacto because: (no reason given)

edit on 13-7-2011 by xacto because: (no reason given)

edit on 13-7-2011 by xacto because: (no reason given)

I'm not seeing your logic. You see God is not controlling at all, in fact he is completely hands off allowing humans the freedom to do whatever it is they choose to do. These humans have chosen to create hell on Earth and now they must live in that hell they have created for themselves. So where is the all controlling deity you speak of?

Bad and good are quite simply concepts and easily explained as unhealthy and healthy. You see each person is an integral part of the human race and essential to it's proper operation. If you murder someone you hurt the human races ability to operate optimally and thus you are hurting yourself because you need the human race to operate at optimum capacity. Murder is bad because it is unhealthy, both for the murderer and everyone.

If reincarnation exists then why would someone return in a terrible position you ask? It's quite simple. If you live your life and not once do you try to make a better world then you will later be reborn into the same crappy place you just left, all because you never put forth the effort to make it better. How can the future world become a happier place if no one puts forth the effort? Are you asking that God take CONTROL simply nod his head and poof the world is happy with no effort put forth by man? If you want a better world you've got to work for it. As long as you sit there doing your job rarely if ever thinking about what's wrong with the world and how to solve it then nothing will ever change for the better.

reply to post by SavedOne


Another person that does not want to read my words correctly. I never said God condoned the act of rape and I have said that I personally do NOT condone the act of rape. I would love to live in a world where no one is raped, but in order for that to happen people need to realize why it happens so they can stop perpetuating it. Fact, people need dopamine. FACT people who rarely experience it will seek it out, violently if necessary. FACT you refuse to let poor people have access to dopamine. FACT they will seek it out, violently if necessary.

YOU kept them from it, now face their wrath.

reply to post by NeverSleepingEyes


I like Buddhist texts as well. As far as a Buddha is concerned, well it simply means "Awakened one" or "Enlightened one." Again not to toot my own horn, but I consider myself to be enlightened, moreover this enlightenment was initiated by myself. I have explained my situation earlier.

Edit: Let's say there is a Buddha living in your town. He is obviously quite enlightened as the term implies and has a great many ideas on how the world could be improved. Since he is a Buddha and you are not, would you agree with what he says or would his ideas be so radical that you simply cannot see the truth behind them. Being as he is enlightened then his ideas would probably never have been heard before. I bet he'd be considered crazy, possibly even called sick.

I'd like to add that a religion does not necessarily include the belief in God, Buddhism was mentioned. You see a religion is merely a set of morals, if you will, that a person believes in. A code of ethics that a person believes a person should live their life by. Many of you atheists out there claim to despise religion, but do not realize that you are quite religious yourself. You have a moral code that you try to enforce. You call me sick because my beliefs do not fit within your moral code, you exile me from your society because I do not agree with your moral code. Those of you who do such things, not all of you, are doing the exact same thing that other religions do to each other. Which casting people out because of a disagreement.

I can see why people disagree with me, but personally I think that the word sick is a bit of a stretch don't you? I am not raping people and I do not condone the act of rape. I merely state that rape is the natural consequences of ones actions.

Edit: James Hutton is considered the father of geology. When he began to study rocks and come up with ideas on how they formed and how old the Earth was he became an outcast because his beliefs did not align with the religion of his greater society. Just the same my beliefs do not align with the religion of my peers and so I am cast out. Eventually it was realized that James Hutton was correct.

So you make one biased statement and that is supposed to be proof???

Proof you don't know what you're talking about: You give nothing to support your wild claim.

For shame.

reply to post by Cantmakedisup


Technically in my originally post I didn't provide any evidence, but I think the conversation in this thread has led me to give evidence to support my claims. All and all I believe I have supported my claim, successfully or unsuccessfully depending on one's opinion.

Edit: By the by in regards to the Israeli Palestinian deal. The Israelis throw their support to a government that refuses to share with the Palestinians. Likewise the Palestinians throw their support to a government that refuses to share with the Israelis.

Sharing is a rather adult thing to do IMHO, throwing a temper tantrum is not so much. So you might say that some people do not personally throw bombs across borders, but they do give money to a government that uses that money to purchase bombs that are then tossed across borders. So you may not physically throw the bomb, but you do buy the bombs and facilitate their being tossed at one another.