Where do the loyalties of Israeli /American dual citizens lie?

Personally I have no problem with "dual citizens" No problem as long as they are not in a decision makeing post within the government. In the US government we have dual citizens in ALL areas of government. Where is their first alliegence? America or Israel. If we even have to ask this question they should not be in our government.

Many dual citizens vote in Israeli elections and have served in the Israeli army. Incidently, ONLY Israelis are permitted dual citizenship. It seems to me it opens the door for potential conflict of interests.

Here are a few dual citizens in very important government positions. past and present

Michael Mukasey
U.S. Attorney General

Michael Chertoff
Asst Atorney General, Head of Homeland Security

Paul Wolfowitz
Dep. Defense Sec.

Douglas Faith
Under Sec. of Defense

Edward Luttwak
Pentagon advisor

Henry Kissinger
Pentagon Advisor (currently)

Kenneth Adelman
Pentagon Advisor

I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby
Former Chief of Staff for Dick Cheny

Richard Perle
Pentagon advisor

Many U.S. Ambassadors as well as congressmen and women

Based on the conduct of some of the above I believe we put our country at risk by allowing them to serve.
Any thoughts?

I think you spam Israel-hate threads too much.

Other than that do you have any proof of them putting Israel before America that can actually be commented on?

reply to post by kro32


Proof isn't the point the OP is making. There is a conflict of interest here. People holding dual citizenship shouldn't be allowed to be in any government decision making. The chances of their decisions being biased is just too great.

Originally posted by kro32
I think you spam Israel-hate threads too much.

Other than that do you have any proof of them putting Israel before America that can actually be commented on?

Well, since you asked.

Jane Harmon, Congresswoman. In 2009 the NSA secretly taped negotiating with two AIPAC spies accused of giving sensitive information about US military activies to the Israeli government.In the tape she was asked to help dismiss the espionage charges in return for large contributions and the Chair of the US intelligence Commitee. The case against the spies were dismissed against the protests of the FBI. Surly you remember that one.

Scotter Libby. Libby was recently found guilty of lying to investigators in the Valerie Plame affair.

Larry Franklin, former Defense Intelligence Agency Analyst, currently serving a 12 year term for passing classified information to an Israeli diplomat.
to name a few.

Originally posted by WeRpeons
reply to post by kro32

 

Proof isn't the point the OP is making. There is a conflict of interest here. People holding dual citizenship shouldn't be allowed to be in any government decision making. The chances of their decisions being biased is just too great.

Correct! But even without a clear conflict of interest the potential certainly exists and therefore the risk is too great!

reply to post by kro32


What you call hate I call drawing attention to a statistical anomaly, help me out buddy where's the hate?

It's certainly a possibility. In order to see however we would need to look at all the people in government who've held dual citizenships and their decisions and base it off that.

If it turns out that there isn't any proof of them favoring their country of origin I would have to say that it isn't a problem. Just because someone has dual citizenship doesn't mean their loyalties are suspect.

I'm sure there are many politicians who only are citizens of America yet they have deep ties to other country's and they would favor that country over America. Perhaps in regards to Mexico or Israel or the Middle Eastern country's.

Perhaps Arnold would have favored Austria had something come up that was in conflict.

Looking at voting records to me is the best way to answer this question which is why I asked the op for further information.

Originally posted by Thepreye
reply to post by kro32

 

What you call hate I call drawing attention to a statistical anomaly, help me out buddy where's the hate?

edit on 11-7-2011 by Thepreye because: (no reason given)

Look at the post history of the op and you will see why I made that comment but that's neither here nor there. However it's a valid thread and i've added my comment to it, no need to go any further than that.

Originally posted by kro32
It's certainly a possibility. In order to see however we would need to look at all the people in government who've held dual citizenships and their decisions and base it off that.

If it turns out that there isn't any proof of them favoring their country of origin I would have to say that it isn't a problem. Just because someone has dual citizenship doesn't mean their loyalties are suspect.

I'm sure there are many politicians who only are citizens of America yet they have deep ties to other country's and they would favor that country over America. Perhaps in regards to Mexico or Israel or the Middle Eastern country's.

Perhaps Arnold would have favored Austria had something come up that was in conflict.

Looking at voting records to me is the best way to answer this question which is why I asked the op for further information.

So it would be OK with you if Israeli Arabs held important posts within the Israeli government? Of course you know that will never happen.

reply to post by gem_man

You've made a good point. If I'm in that position, where do my loyalties lie? Tough one. But ultimately for me it's not about countries, it's about humanity and family. Dual interests? Try triple interests?

reply to post by gem_man


Absolutely it would be ok. It would be preferred in my opinion. A piece of paper does not dictate a persons loyalties. If someone is loyal to Israel and gives up their citizenship to win a government seat in America it does not mean their loyalties have changed.

If you outlaw dual citizenship for government officials you might as well state that they can have no family in other countries and no ties whatsoever. Something along those lines.

Originally posted by kro32
reply to post by gem_man

 

Absolutely it would be ok. It would be preferred in my opinion. A piece of paper does not dictate a persons loyalties. If someone is loyal to Israel and gives up their citizenship to win a government seat in America it does not mean their loyalties have changed.

If you outlaw dual citizenship for government officials you might as well state that they can have no family in other countries and no ties whatsoever. Something along those lines.

Hmmm... You make a good point! But for me the risk potential is too great. For instance I could not imagine a Japanese American working at the Pentagon during WW2. The risk would be too great. Now I know we are not at war with Israel but in recent years to many Dual citizens have committed what in my mind were treasonous acts.

reply to post by gem_man

Incidently, ONLY Israelis are permitted dual citizenship.

That might be the case now but wasn't always this way, they don't hand them out much now a days though.

Really, I don't care what nationality you might be, I judge by actions. Some of the Israel-American dual citizens appear to favor Israel over the country they are supposed to govern. I don't think it's wise to specifically point out any and all dual citizens in government as a problem. some are, plenty of American only citizens in government are also a problem.

See, this is one of the rare cases where the term antisemitism could actually apply. Of course, I see the OP isn't specifically saying only Israeli-Aermican, and is talking about dual citizens in general, but that isn't in the title or the original OP, that statement only becomes clear in a follow up post.

To suggest we must suspect the motives of all Israeli / American dual citizens is to suggest, merely because they hold citizenship in Israel, they are suspicious. This I don't agree with. There are plenty of Israelis who don't agree with Israels current policies, and some of them are Americans as well.

When it comes to defense matters, it should be looked at, but I'd like to think that type of stuff is screened in the standard screening process everyone must take to get those positions. When it comes to Israel's defense interests, and those of the US, they aren't always the same. In most cases they are diametrically opposed. But this doesn't mean every single Israeli puts Israel first, they don't.

As for examples where dual citizens have favored the interests of Israel over the US, there are plenty, I suggest the OP provide a few others that specifically show Israel's interest being placed above the US. You could even mention Helen Thomas, this isn't government doing Israels bidding, but it is the media, and by loose association the government, silencing someone at the behest of Israel. And before it becomes a problem, I'm well aware of the exact statement and context, so don't even attempt to play that game here.

But to be fair, you might also look at the Americans who are doing things that don't seem to be in the best interest of American as so far as they are for Israel.

I guess that we should be happy we can still ask these questions as to some it's antisemitic

There are many Govt officials in leadership roles all around the world that have dual citizenship yet you only target those in the USA who may or may not have dual citizenship with Israel?

Once again, you have produced another thread solely to target Israelis. Gee whizz, an Israeli or Jew must have done something really horrible and mean to you in your past to be so bitter and nasty! Perhaps they saw the same in you that I do!

Originally posted by kro32
I think you spam Israel-hate threads too much.

Other than that do you have any proof of them putting Israel before America that can actually be commented on?

That's called 'obsession”.
Second line.

Originally posted by gem_man

Originally posted by kro32
It's certainly a possibility. In order to see however we would need to look at all the people in government who've held dual citizenships and their decisions and base it off that.

If it turns out that there isn't any proof of them favoring their country of origin I would have to say that it isn't a problem. Just because someone has dual citizenship doesn't mean their loyalties are suspect.

I'm sure there are many politicians who only are citizens of America yet they have deep ties to other country's and they would favor that country over America. Perhaps in regards to Mexico or Israel or the Middle Eastern country's.

Perhaps Arnold would have favored Austria had something come up that was in conflict.

Looking at voting records to me is the best way to answer this question which is why I asked the op for further information.

So it would be OK with you if Israeli Arabs held important posts within the Israeli government? Of course you know that will never happen.

Currently there are 11 Arab and 3 Druze parliament members in Israel.
Most of them participate in the different committees of the Knesset, where new laws must pass.
I'd say that is important posts enough.
At least one Arab Knesset member were caught spying for the Hizballa and escaped.
Another female Arab Knesset member participated in last year's flotilla, knowing the violent intentions of the IHH.
All of the Arab Knesset members (unlike the Druze) openly declare their loyalty to Palestine and not Israel.

Originally posted by kro32

Originally posted by Thepreye
reply to post by kro32

 

What you call hate I call drawing attention to a statistical anomaly, help me out buddy where's the hate?

edit on 11-7-2011 by Thepreye because: (no reason given)

Look at the post history of the op and you will see why I made that comment but that's neither here nor there. However it's a valid thread and i've added my comment to it, no need to go any further than that.

Even though this post is somewhat off topic I ask GemWolf, the moderator to allow it to stand, simply for clarification of my position.
Just as a poster may post and make threads in Aliens and UFO's on a regular basis, I make threads and post in the Middle East forum. Not because of hatred but because this is where my interrests lie. You have simply perused my thread titles and assumed I have an obsession with making Israel look bad. Read my posts and your opinion may change. NEVER have I written an unkind word about Judaism. My focus has always been on what I percieve to be injustices committed by the IDF, Settlers and the Israeli government toward the indiginous Palestinian Arabs. My position pretty much reflects the Israeli "left"

I happen to be in the diamond and gemstone business so I make frequent trips to Israel where I have made many close friends so you may be assurred my critiscism is out of a sense of justice and nothing else. Incidently when Arafat was alive I was his constant critic.

Originally posted by gem_man
So it would be OK with you if Israeli Arabs held important posts within the Israeli government? Of course you know that will never happen.

Wow you sure are mis-informed. Arab Knesset members
And that includes Haneen Zoabi, who even got to participate in the first flotilla.

Originally posted by bluemirage5
There are many Govt officials in leadership roles all around the world that have dual citizenship yet you only target those in the USA who may or may not have dual citizenship with Israel?

Once again, you have produced another thread solely to target Israelis. Gee whizz, an Israeli or Jew must have done something really horrible and mean to you in your past to be so bitter and nasty! Perhaps they saw the same in you that I do!

This thread targets no country It poses a question as to the risks of dual citizens working in the government. My position is the risks, based on recent criminal convictions, are too great. do you have a position? This is a forum to discuss ME issues and Israel happens to be the current focus of the ME. If discussing The actions of Israel is distaseful for you don't participate otherwise stay on topic rather then personal attacks.

Originally posted by gravitational

Originally posted by gem_man

Originally posted by kro32
It's certainly a possibility. In order to see however we would need to look at all the people in government who've held dual citizenships and their decisions and base it off that.

If it turns out that there isn't any proof of them favoring their country of origin I would have to say that it isn't a problem. Just because someone has dual citizenship doesn't mean their loyalties are suspect.

I'm sure there are many politicians who only are citizens of America yet they have deep ties to other country's and they would favor that country over America. Perhaps in regards to Mexico or Israel or the Middle Eastern country's.

Perhaps Arnold would have favored Austria had something come up that was in conflict.



Looking at voting records to me is the best way to answer this question which is why I asked the op for further information.

So it would be OK with you if Israeli Arabs held important posts within the Israeli government? Of course you know that will never happen.

Currently there are 11 Arab and 3 Druze parliament members in Israel.
Most of them participate in the different committees of the Knesset, where new laws must pass.
I'd say that is important posts enough.
At least one Arab Knesset member were caught spying for the Hizballa and escaped.
Another female Arab Knesset member participated in last year's flotilla, knowing the violent intentions of the IHH.
All of the Arab Knesset members (unlike the Druze) openly declare their loyalty to Palestine and not Israel.

First of all the arab and the druze are not dual citizens but rather Israeli citizens. Second, the thread is about dual citizens in America not Israel.