Faith in science.

People are having faith in science? Are they going to build a prayingmachine? God finds science nowadays very irritating. Science seems to be more important than the community itself. Wicked?

It's like they want to show off with every new miracle they made. What's in it for the community?

The tendens of science is to replace faith but it never will. What I want to say is what can be achieved by science all can be achieved by faith.

Faith can't drive me to my friends house.

In all seriousness, I don't think that you can know what god would think, or that science has an agenda to replace faith?

reply to post by etherical waterwave


You recently promised something like, that you would avoid premature, strong and un-informed statements.

Yes 'people' have faith in science (though faith isn't really a good word in this context, because it's completely irrelevant). Science keeps its promises rather well regarding to what it (science) concerns itself about.

So this is not 'faith', it's the pragmatic observation, that science functions on its own grounds.

The alleged wishes of an alleged 'god' are on the other hand pure speculation, classifiable to the category 'faith'.

Quote: ["Science seems to be more important than the community itself."]

Are you talking politics....society? Democracy is not a technocracy; it's actually run by politicians, who in truth would benefit greatly from a better knowledge of science/logic.

Quote: ["It's like they want to show off with every new miracle they made."]

For theists that must be a bitter cup to drink of. You have only a few alleged miracles, old and with no real evidence, so you maybe find discrediting competitors in the miracle business a good idea.

Quote: ["What's in it for the community"]

Medicine, dentistry, a life in relative comfort, communication, knowledge, entertainment and soft toilet paper.

And as I've heard this reasoning chain again and again and again, usually this will follow: "But there's no room for 'god', this is secular".

Yes, it's secular. Those who need a 'god' can choose to live another way.

Quote: ["The tendens of science is to replace faith but it never will."]

It will for a majority of mankind. Don't you read statistics?

Quote: ["What I want to say is what can be achieved by science all can be achieved by faith."]

I once knew one of the post-divorce-depression new-christians, who actually believed in such. She always forgot to put anti-freeze in her gas, so her carburretor froze. Being extremely untechnically minded, she would then pray to 'god' to heal her car.

In the course of her prayer, the heat from the engine would unfreeze the carburettor....well, you can guess the following 'proof of god' coming from her later.

Theists often love this kind of things; absurd as they are.

But next time a car REALLY breaks down around you, HEAL IT!

nowhere in the bible is mentioned that faith will rescue the world either. Faith, I guess I better open up for prayer.

It isn't in my purpose to leave you frustrated bogomill.
I hope you can keep good health in what you do.

reply to post by chancemusky


Faith could transfer you from one position to another, I believe.

Grow faith, grow faith. Faith must trigger something in our awareness. Or must there be something triggered in our awareness to have faith. I don't think a scientifical enlightment should occur first to gain faith. Where does faith come from? Could there be something that is an obstacle to attain faith?

Do I know nothing about faith?

Where was I tought faith in my youth? I h8 women.

Is there anyone to answer my questions?

What if all I post is rethorical?

Jesus, I received enlightment again. We all want wealth but it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of the heavens. Bible study is good for mental health.

no smiley could express what I need for a smiley to express now.

reply to post by etherical waterwave


You wrote:

["nowhere in the bible is mentioned that faith will rescue the world either"]


For people not believing in myths of an afterlife or similar, it means that sticking with science would be the safest bet then.

If there's only one existence-level and science can help making it better, so ....science it is.

Quote: ["It isn't in my purpose to leave you frustrated bogomill."]

You never leave me frustrated; you are imo about the most weird/fascinating theist around here, but I can respect your basic faith-approach.

I also send you my best wishes.

reply to post by etherical waterwave

Originally posted by etherical waterwave
People are having faith in science?

Nope. Science is testable. No faith required.

Are they going to build a prayingmachine?

Lol wut?

God finds science nowadays very irritating.

...why? Because it's done all of those things 'he' has failed to do? You know...like connect the world with the greatest network of communication technology ever invented that you are currently using.

Science seems to be more important than the community itself. Wicked?

Ha...seriously, I laugh at this assertion. Most people don't give to fornications about science

It's like they want to show off with every new miracle they made. What's in it for the community?

...communication. You're using a computer, aren't you? Health. Prosperity. All science is a benefit to the community.

The tendens of science is to replace faith but it never will.

...science should replace faith, but the point of science is to be science.

What I want to say is what can be achieved by science all can be achieved by faith.

Please, build a computer with faith.
Cure a disease with faith.
Build a powerplant with faith.
Feed a million people with faith.
Use faith to determine heliocentric solar cosmology.
Use faith to uncover anything about the natural world.

Everything that science does is exclusively outside the ability of faith.

Faith is belief without proof.

The very goal of science is to follow the evidence to DISCOVER the facts and then prove it.

Faith gives you the so-called 'facts' and demands you believe without any proof.

Any "faith" (if you want to call it that) I have in science is because it has never failed to provide the proof...

Faith just cannot be based on nothing. That's why it's called faith.

Faith is gained through experience. We do not show our faith to the world. It's we're being scared of being ridiculed at. Another lame game of evil. Belief becomes faith.

What we learned about the world stands in the way of our faith. We believed that when something is locked we need a key and thousands of such examples. That is what is wrong with the schools of today. It only serves having lack of faith. We need a mind capable of fantasising. We come out of schools like allknowing but are just faithless. Things don't need to be as the standard tell us. We need to believe in a peculiar power. like a kid. Grownups are faithless, like no, this won't go if we don't do this or have that. Such things are tought to children and this is what changes children. Predigested beliefs.

Do you understand my message? We need to have faith, even if it is in nothing but nothing will eventualy become something and then you are at the right door.

At least there is hope.

reply to post by etherical waterwave

Faith just cannot be based on nothing

Then i ask: What is it based on?

I'd say it is based on the recognition of the potential of the love and light God. Ofcourse one can only have recognition in what he knew through what some would call spiritual experiences. One has to have experienced the love and light God. There is more to us humans than solely a body. We have the capability to heal like Jesus did. Still things remain unknown to me but isn't it a great work to heal. You know what is wrong with what some people say, they speak to much evil. Too much hate. We all need someone we can turn to without being a victim of mistrust. People have gone too far. Many communities are just bad.

Faith, the recognition of the potential of the love and light God.

Originally posted by etherical waterwave
One has to have experienced the love and light God.

Is that the same "love" that the "heretics" experienced when they were being stretched on the rack?
Was it the "light" of "god" that was given off as people were burned alive?
So much for your love and light 'god'

It was "faith" that put them there, not science.

That is what "faith" gets you.

I suppose it's hard to appreciate science when we have all these modern day conveniences AND life saving technology. It's common in the developed world, so not too many appreciate it. Without it, we'd all probably be dead already. At least us old folks over 40, anyway.

What can be achieved by science can also be achieved by faith? Alrighty then, next post you make in this thread, do it using faith that your post will appear instead of using the science of the computer and internet.


IMO, faith is never a good thing to live your life by. Give me knowledge, wisdom, and solid evidence instead. Remember the parents who had faith that their daughter would be healed from her diabetic attack and she died? Again, never a good thing to live your life by faith. That girl would still be alive today had they used scientific treatments to help her.

Originally posted by LHP666

Originally posted by etherical waterwave
One has to have experienced the love and light God.

Is that the same "love" that the "heretics" experienced when they were being stretched on the rack?
Was it the "light" of "god" that was given off as people were burned alive?
So much for your love and light 'god'

It was "faith" that put them there, not science.

That is what "faith" gets you.

I suppose it's hard to appreciate science when we have all these modern day conveniences AND life saving technology. It's common in the developed world, so not too many appreciate it. Without it, we'd all probably be dead already. At least us old folks over 40, anyway.

edit on 21-6-2011 by LHP666 because: (no reason given)

I especially agree with your last paragraph.

As one of those far-reaching experiments I often do with my life, I moved to my farm in 1974, and the first thing I did, was to have the electricity removed.

And for 14 years we had an outhouse, firewood-heating, kerosene-lamps, water carried to the house from a handpump, and cooking on an oldfashioned kitchenstove. The only conveniences were a car, a telephone and a tractor.

As I got on in years, I had electricity re-installed, and by Jove, what a luxury (not that I ever have regretted my simplistic years).

So it always annoys me, when anti-science/anti-technology people, from theist motives, start their crusades against science. They have (with very few exceptions) no idea of, what they are talking about. And most of them probably wouldn't last more than a week of such a primitive life, before the comforts of the western life-style would call them back.

There's too much loftiness in certain theist circles, and the hypocracy is soon becoming apparent, when ideals have to stand their test against reality in mundane life.

Damn those scientists, we don't need them! Let's just go back to the dark ages and torture any non-believers!

How dare they try to elevate humanity to a higher level of existence where people don't die when they're 30?

Still waiting for you to build a computer using faith. Or to derive heliocentric solar cosmology with faith. Or to advance our understanding of the universe in any meaningful way using nothing but faith.

Op science is needed for conveniences. Granted most creations today were created by idols minds that wanted to make life more confortable/easier instead of realizing earth is short lived. Still nontheless I use technology, xbox360, cable tv, car, cell phone. I might be a hypocrite, but I realize these things aren't nessicerily needed in my life.

conveniences.

What science will create are a nuclear war never seen before. See because when evil and idol minds mix, you get destruction. it will cause our downfall because of the people who are in charge of sciences greatest creations.

Faith is a good think to live by, we only need to have some. You do not understand what faith can do. Faith is something real. They do not trust on the words of others anymore. Then don't read the bible or any book of instruction. We didn't even stem from apes then. Get your grandfather ape to talk with me. Apes, are you ridiculous.

Ofcourse you don't have the intelligence we seek for in you. I didn't stem from apes. Should I become a racist?

What a miracle it would have been transforming from a monkey into a human. Probably done by faith, or was it science?

What I claim is faith can do what science can and even more. It's like science is there to fulfill our shortcoming in faith. What a disastruous world.

You want me to build a computer with faith. What does that mean about yourself. If I had faith I wouldn't need to build a computer with it. I'd come to you over walking over water if you know what I mean and heal your backproblems.

reply to post by etherical waterwave


You wrote:

["You do not understand what faith can do. Faith is something real."]

The concept 'faith' is not under debate. It exists. And that 'faith' have consequences is also apparant (e.g. placebo effect). It's when the intrinsic content of a faith is claimed to be an universal 'absolute' the protests start to manifest.

Quote: [" Then don't read the bible or any book of instruction."]

It is actually possible to read any kind of material without conversion or anti-conversion as an aim.

Quote: ["We didn't even stem from apes then. Get your grandfather ape to talk with me. Apes, are you ridiculous."]

As ridiculous as theist fantasies perhaps?

Quote: ["Ofcourse you don't have the intelligence we seek for in you."]

I have met some pretty bright 'talking monkeys' (=humans) in my life.

Quote: ["I didn't stem from apes."]

I hope no-one is trying to change your personal opinion on that point. If you didn't come from apes, this is your choice. Those of us coming from apes have a similar freedom of opinion.

Quote: ["Should I become a racist?"]

According to OT you should. 'Blacks' (politically correct word?) are supposed to be slaves.

Quote: ["What a miracle it would have been transforming from a monkey into a human."]

It didn't happen overnight, contrary to alleged bible-miracles, which are unhindered by such small details as causality etc.

Quote: ["What I claim is faith can do what science can and even more. It's like science is there to fulfill our shortcoming in faith. What a disastruous world."]

Not so much talk ABOUT. Give some real examples (I am a relatively successful reiki-healer on some dysfunctions. No 'faith' involved....just in case).

Quote: ["You want me to build a computer with faith. What does that mean about yourself. If I had faith I wouldn't need to build a computer with it. I'd come to you over walking over water if you know what I mean and heal your backproblems."]

Seeing is believing.

But the faith thing is what I believed reading the bible. Nothing will make me think otherwise about it. We must believe what the bible prescribes. Isn't it one keeps on believing until he has received the proof of it. What has changed in the person is what is proof. Nobody can take that away from that person. It is the person itself that is proof. You make others believe just by being yourself. True, isn't it. That is the proof. I guess I shouldn't bother if I am convincing or not.

Christianity is just great. It doesn't want to convince others of itself. It is selfconvincing. Christianity is simple for everyone to understand. It places seeds in everybody. It has a toll but the promise is great. Christianity just works.

Reading the bible I came to know how to lead a happy life. Luke 6 is a perfect guide. Because of all that is going in the world it leaves space for us to feel happy. Its love conquers all hate and evil. Christianity makes a place for people in the world.

The bible is so enlightening.

Christianity is life. Those who don't have the son don't live.

I can make others feel alive. (I hope so) ??

Everything is alright with me. Praise the Lord!