Muslim Woman Abuses Police Officer ....A False complaint ...and then no charge.

Hi once again sincere apologies for hitting return key after composing title,.
Hence the blank initial post.

But this is surely a serious issue originating in Australia.

It has made the headline news in the highly respected Daily Telegraph.
Basically a Police Officer stopped a woman wearing a full face Burka, she was incorrectly displaying her P plate.
(P plate in Australia means Provisional Driver is in charge of vehicle.

During the course of the Police Officer doing his job he asked the woman to remove her Burka in order to verify her identity in relation to the photo on her Provisional license.

Next someone (sic) also in a Burka lodges a complaint at a Police station against the Officer in question.
The person in the Burka alleged the officer was forceably trying to remove her Head covering and that he was acting racist towards her.
The police had video evidence of the exchange and it showed the person in the Burka abusing the Police Officer and the Police Officer acting professionally and respectfully.

The person in th eBurka was charged with making a false complaint.

But in Court no charge was laid as the Judge said the identity of the person making the complaint could not be positively identified, as she attended the police station wearing a Burka.

This surely raises serious issues , in fact its hard to know where to start.

The most serious issue being can a crime be committed by a Burka wearing individual or Gang?
Can they say they can not remove their Burkas for cultural reasons and not have to?
Is Sharia Law superseding the laws that all citizens are obliged to live by?

Dr Expired.... your post expired!

Here's a link:

Race row woman avoids jail by remaining behind her burqa

THE Muslim woman accused of lying about police trying to tear her burqa off has avoided jail - because her identity could not be proven.

Carnita Matthews, 47, from Woodbine, in Sydney's southwest, had been sentenced to six months in jail for making a deliberately false statement that a policeman tried to forcibly remove her burqa because he was a racist.

But judge Clive Jeffreys said yesterday he was not satisfied beyond reasonable doubt that it was Mrs Matthews who made the racism accusation because the person who complained to police was wearing a burqa at the time.

I will be interested to see how this gets turned into a persecution of islam yet again, while they thumb their nose at society.

More than a dozen Muslim supporters linked arms and began chanting "Allah Akbar" as they stormed out of Downing Centre Court with Mrs Matthews concealed behind them.

Tempers rose and they began jostling with police after several members of the group attacked cameramen.

It marked a stark difference from their behaviour minutes earlier, when they had quietly assembled outside the lifts for prayer shortly after the judge's decision.

Mrs Matthew's lawyer Stephen Hopper defended their actions saying: "They are obviously happy with the result and are expressing it in a way that is culturally appropriate to them."

ugh....

Its forbidden in France, and forbidden in The Netherlands.

And I 100% agree with it, if women want to wear a Burka, they should do it in a Muslim country like Saudi Arabia.

I think a Burka is a form of Religious Extremism since nowhere in the Kuran is it written that women should wear them.

reply to post by badw0lf


"They" don't. There is no "they." Some Muslims do and it seems, from what we have in the article, that this woman did. Fortunately she is not in the majority.

Originally posted by InvisibleAlbatross
reply to post by badw0lf

 

"They" don't. There is no "they." Some Muslims do and it seems, from what we have in the article, that this woman did. Fortunately she is not in the majority.

I forget, it's only the 0.000001% we hear about in the news... all the time... for any reason.

My bad.

reply to post by badw0lf


Thanks for the link insert


People on ATS have been raising this issue for a long tim eever since Biin Laden was on the No1 most wanted list
but it seems the disease of insanity that has infected the worlds Western Leaders makes them blind to the paradox of targeting terrorists and then allowing people to roam around the cities and countryside in full body disguise.
Sane people are scrathing their heads saying waht the #### is going on , why are we now kow towing to people who have openly displayed their hostility to us time and time again.

And then the insane say "Its their cultural right to force women to be covered head to toe" or"but the women choose to be covered head to toe" yeah right, perhaps they are scared out of their minds ?

People fought and died for the western nations never ever should we forget that.

reply to post by Dr Expired


I see the point you're making, no doubt there are a few issues to be raised with the Niqab/Burka. Personally I feel that it should NOT be illegal to wear whatever clothing you wish, even if it covers the face. However, I also feel it should be mandated that a person can be asked to temporarily remove facial covering in cases where an individual needs to be identified (like in a police traffic stop or when lodging an official complaint etc).

Also looking at the issue of banning certain types of religious clothing as is the case in some European nations now, I find it worrying that in society nowadays we are actually resorting to making certain types of clothing illegal in the name of security. I mean, what next? Should we ban gloves in case they are used by criminals to hide fingerprints? It's an absurd idea and an extreme risk in giving our government the mandate to have so much authority over our personal lives.

reply to post by lifeissacred


Excellent reply you summed up the issue perfectly, unfortunately some Fundamentalist (culturally) Islamists are using their culture perhaps to defy the adopted lands they go to?

What I can't figure out is why the Police didn't ask the complainant to remove her head covering in the Police station?

reply to post by Dr Expired


Exactly, though it's important to stress that this is largely (almost completely) a cultural issue.

It also seems there was an error on the part of the police in not identifying the complainant when the complaint was made which seems to have exacerbated this situation even more.

Originally posted by lifeissacred
I mean, what next? Should we ban gloves in case they are used by criminals to hide fingerprints?

Or should we ALLOW all people to wear a Balaclava since probably not everyone wearing them is a potential bank robber?

"Can a crime be committed by a Burka wearing individual or Gang?" Yes. And weapons could be hidden inside Burka.

"Can they say they can not remove their Burkas for cultural reasons and not have to?" They should not use culture as a reason NOT to comply with the law.

"Is Sharia Law superseding the laws that all citizens are obliged to live by?" Sharia can NOT supersede the "common" laws, which came first by the way. These "common" laws were designed to be shared by ALL, not just by particluar groups, etc.

P.S. It's not good to lie under oath/burka either.

reply to post by Grey Magic


So you're saying we should ban balaclavas now? How about wigs and glasses because they can be used to hide our identity also? Should we all be forced to look directly into the CCTV cameras when we enter public places also just incase we might intend to do something illegal and we aren't properly identified?

Attempting to rationalise a ban on a religious garment which is rarely, if ever, used specifically to conceal a persons identity in a crime does not make sense unless you also attempt to rationalise a ban on all of the garments used to conceal a person's identity when they may be (or may not be in most cases) committing a crime.

What you have to understand is that by allowing one infringement on personal freedom you thereby justify any and all infringement on personal freedom.

Originally posted by lifeissacred
reply to post by Grey Magic

 

So you're saying we should ban balaclavas now? How about wigs and glasses because they can be used to hide our identity also? Should we all be forced to look directly into the CCTV cameras when we enter public places also just incase we might intend to do something illegal and we aren't properly identified?

What you have to understand is that by allowing one infringement on personal freedom you thereby justify any and all infringement on personal freedom.

You make a point, but you know spiritually they say our faces allow spirits to recognise one another.
We remember faces very efficiently.
This is a cultural thing, and Iam a bit gobsmacked how multiculturism has happenned so quickly in the west, so close on the heels of millions of corpses lying rotting in Europe and Vietnam, Korea the Pacific Islands , without a single referendum.
How did it happen?
I can only say perhaps we were all distracted by the Ninja mutant Turtles?

reply to post by lifeissacred


balaclavas are already banned here, for that reason. If according to you a woman should have the right to wear a Burka for religious grounds, I should have the right to wear whatever I want, for whatever reason I want?

But I am amazed though that a Burka is so easy to accept for you, wearing it is a sign of disrespect to the western country they live in in my opinion and a sign of female oppression, like I said before, its religious extremism.

We stopped things like witch burnings and more crazy religious 1700 AD stuff like that, in those extreme Muslim countries people are still stoned to death, do you want that part of their culture to integrate into yours too?

Neither do I want to see women in Burka's in my country.

reply to post by Grey Magic


Yes you should have the right to wear whatever you want. Just to clarify my arguement also, I'm not looking at this from the perspective of religious freedom although that does play a small part. This is about personal freedom, the freedom to wear the clothing you feel comfortable in without the government telling you what to do.

Nothing threatens me about a woman wearing a Burka, infact I feel more threatened by people who would actually support a law that gives a government the authority to tell you what you can and cannot wear. I feel more threatened by kids wearing hoodies and baseball caps given the fact that I'm hundreds of times more likely to be a victim of a crime commited by a teenager wearing some American brand 'street' clothing than I am a woman in a full face veil but that doesn't mean I would support a law banning clothes which I don't like. As I said before once you attempt to justify a compromise of one person's individual liberty you in turn justify the infringement on every single liberty which we enjoy in this society.

Just because you don't like something you don't need to instigate it's complete prohibition. If I want to cover my face I should be able to cover my face, it's not for you or anyone else to tell me I shouldn't. If you don't like it, don't talk to me or deal with me, problem solved. Likewise I can disagree or dislike your choice of clothing etc but at the end of the day it's none of my business how you or anyone else chooses to dress.

Personally I prefer seeing a persons face, but if a person chooses to wear a veil it's nothing to do with me, doesn't affect me in any way and therefore I will ignore it and carry on with my day.

reply to post by lifeissacred


We all have right perhaps to wear what we like , but not if it puts the majority at a disadvantage?
A Police Officer in Australia is a respected person who serves his community( a view held by the majority) yet he or she is being put in danger by having to approach someone in head to toe disguise?
He /she is being hampered in the carrying out of their duties by not been able to identify someone .

Any Law enforcement/security/officer will tell you they can almost instantly recognise someones intentions by their facial and eye expressions, a smile cannot fool an experienced officer.

They surely have the right to expect a person they pull over for breaking a rule or law , is able to be summed up.

We are an open and tolerant world (the west at least) yet we are being converted wheteher we want it or not into the world we only see in our nightmares?

reply to post by Dr Expired


Yes that's what I said before, a police officer should be able to request the removal of garments which conceal the identity if they have reasonable grounds to do so. Like when the woman went to the station to make the complaint she should have had to remove the veil to verify her identity etc. I'm not arguing that there shouldn't be instances when facial coverings are required to be removed, I'm simply saying that only when a relevant authority, with justification, requires it so, should there be any restriction on personal freedom.

Photos are not considered legal evidence, at least not here in Canada.
Would a picture of her twin sister been admissible ?
Would a transvestite look the same in all photos ?
Would a guy with a 6 o'ck shadow be recognizable as in a
previous photo ?
Photos can be doctored as well thus irrelevant.
As for the incident, it could have been avoided by having a female
officer request a search etc.

i personally think they should be banned. or if not, the police should have the power to ask the individual to remove it in order to be identified if needs be. i see it all the time where i live with youngsters in hoodies or hats who, when stopped by police, are asked to remove them. surely this should apply to everything and everyone no matter what is hiding their identity? you cant even go into a petrol station with anything covering your face (motorcycle helmet) so why should an item of clothing be any different?
i remember in the uk when one of the july 7th bombers tried to leave the country by dressing up in a burka, so whats to say it isnt happening all the time? to be honest its an easy way for anybody who may be wanted by the authorities to move around freely without worrying about being found.
i have nothing against the idea of people being able to wear whatever they want, but surely there has to be limits when it comes down to people delibrately trying to hide their identity. when muslim women say it is an offence against islam to ask them to remove their headwear, that is complete nonsense as it is not part of their religion, it is part of their culture and if they are living in a different culture, they should expect to live as we live. for example, if a western woman went on holiday to a muslim country, she would be expected to cover up and if she didnt, she would be arrested, charged then maybe worse. if a muslim woman is in a western country, then surely she should live by the rules aand laws we have in place, which include having to remove items that hide their identity when asked.