Jay Z in Freemason Lodge/Meeting

Originally posted by OnTheLevel213

Originally posted by Watts
1. That's your opinion. In my opinion its clearly him. And considering the following images from his clothing line, I really don't see what there is to question.

Jay-Z also calls himself J-Hovah, and his record label Roc-a-Fella. That doesn't make him God or a scion of New York quasi-royalty; it makes him someone who's attracted to things that communicate "power".

And then there's the hand-sign which has the exact shape of the compass square thing. Think about it, people try to say its just a "diamond" but at no point has Rocafella/Rocafella Records used a diamond as a logo, symbol or identifying mark. Clearly masonic in nature even if the sheep that happily mimic him don't know it.

If it was so "clearly Masonic", you would think it would feature anywhere in Masonic ritual. It does not.

Just for effect, here he is wearing a shirt with a quote from the beast himself, Aleister Crowely

Who was a fake Freemason, and admitted as much when he rewrote OTO ritual to remove Masonic influence.

2. Unless you're willing to say the photographer just grabbed a random black guy to stand in for Obama

Read the caption again. The picture is not of Obama, but of a White House official setting the Presidential seal.

Obama is in fact a mason.

Lodge name and number, please.

Any logically thinking mind can see what the deal is. I've had enough discussions with die-hard fans to know that no amount of evidence will make them believe their "demi-god" is at the very least, very involved with the Freemasons if not a member.

I haven't bought a Jay-Z album since The Blueprint, and his latest single really, really sucks, so I'm hardly die-hard. At the same time, I actually know something about Freemasonry, and how it handles its members. I refer you to my thread on Anders Breivik; to believe that Freemasons would rush to admit a mass murderer was indeed a member but conceal a popular artist is absurd on its face.

The odd thing about this is, if you replaced the freemason symbollism with any other symbol, like a crucifix, people wouldn't say "He's not a Christian, he's just playing around with the symbols."

I've actually said the very same in this post.

Whatever tho... I understand the blue pill is easier to swallow. Its all good.

Right. Everyone else is just choosing the more appealing worldview. Not you; you're too alert and super-smart and extra-special for that, and oh look, your worldview confirms that for you. What a crazy coincidence.

edit on 10-8-2011 by OnTheLevel213 because: clarification

1. You further my point of what he's drawn to and gives more weight to the notion that he would seek to be a part of a "powerful" fraternal order.

2. Did I say it was an official masonic hand sign or a hand gesture that reflects a symbol of freemasons? Its no different than the hook em horns symbol...of course no bull runs around with a little hand protruding from its head making a hand sign. Students do it to REFLECT the concept of a bull with horns. Lol you have a bad habit of twisting words.

3. My point wasn't that he was a freemason, the point was that he's a luciferian... a worshipper of the "light-bearer". Freemasons speak often the light-bearer. Are you denying that?? I hope not. Why would Jay-z wear a shirt featuring a quote he doesn't believe in?

4. Nowhere on that entire picture does it say those are the hands of a white house official. Nowhere.

And just for the hell of it, lets say you're right(even though this thread isn't even about him), Obama isn't a freemason. That doesn't change a single thing about Jay-Z. It doesn't suddenly render the pictures about the subject of this thread invalid/false/fake lol. Sooo... yea.

5. "to believe that Freemasons would rush to admit a mass murderer was indeed a member but conceal a popular artist is absurd on its face."

I take it you're compelled to believe they rush to parade around every single member of stature? How do you know Jay-Z hasn't asked them not to? Point being, just because they admit to one person being a member, doesn't mean that's an all-encompassing rule where they make it a point to single out EVERY member who is in some position of power or relevance. That can't be argued. There's thousands of members in places of high stature, politically and monetarily, that they haven't paraded around.

That's like saying if I introduce you to one friend, but don't introduce you to the 500 other I know in the room, those 500 must not be my friend. That's a TOTALLY flawed argument.

6. Actually its not "me against everyone else" as you're trying to imply. There's just as many, if not MORE people that believe he is a mason so I don't understand what your point there was. If that weren't the case, we wouldn't even be having a discussion about a hip-hop artist's ties here. There's a debate here for a reason, some people think he is, some think he isn't. Soooo...? Lol

Believe what you want, that's one perk of having a brain.

Originally posted by Watts
1. You further my point of what he's drawn to and gives more weight to the notion that he would seek to be a part of a "powerful" fraternal order.

Doesn't change the fact that there's still zero factual evidence of this happening.

2. Did I say it was an official masonic hand sign or a hand gesture that reflects a symbol of freemasons?

If you didn't, then we have a very different definition of "clearly". If something is "clearly" Masonic, shouldn't it have a place in Freemasonry?

3. My point wasn't that he was a freemason

That is, however, the point of the thread, and you've defended the affirmative.

the point was that he's a luciferian... a worshipper of the "light-bearer".

About a third of this planet is. The exception is that most call Him Jesus.

Freemasons speak often the light-bearer. Are you denying that?? I hope not.

Certain Masons have used the term in works tangentially related to Freemasonry, but it's hardly characteristic of the Craft.

Why would Jay-z wear a shirt featuring a quote he doesn't believe in?

Who cares? The quote didn't come from a genuine Mason and isn't genuinely Masonic.

4. Nowhere on that entire picture does it say those are the hands of a white house official. Nowhere.

A White House official ("staffer" may be the more appropriate term) is responsible for affixing the seal of the President to a podium where the President is speaking, and removing it when he is finished. The caption identifies the photo as being of this process.

And just for the hell of it, lets say you're right(even though this thread isn't even about him), Obama isn't a freemason. That doesn't change a single thing about Jay-Z.

No, it doesn't. If you'll recall, however, I didn't bring it up.

I take it you're compelled to believe they rush to parade around every single member of stature?

Yes, actually, as well as can be done. It's a point of pride.

Point being, just because they admit to one person being a member, doesn't mean that's an all-encompassing rule where they make it a point to single out EVERY member who is in some position of power or relevance.

No, but the policies regarding which Masons are and are not public information seem absurd when you look at who has been acknowledged and who is supposedly "hidden".

That can't be argued. There's thousands of members in places of high stature, politically and monetarily, that they haven't paraded around.

Then a few examples shouldn't be a big deal.

6. Actually its not "me against everyone else" as you're trying to imply. There's just as many, if not MORE people that believe he is a mason

I'd love to know on what evidence you're making this claim. Who was polled? How was the poll conducted? How do you know the numbers of people who assume a conspiracy theory to be correct?

There's a debate here for a reason, some people think he is, some think he isn't.

"Swallowing the blue pill" refers to a state of willful ignorance. It has no place in reasoned discussion, and my comment was intended to reflect that.

Who cares if he has relatives who are Masons.

Red Masonic lodges allow Women by the way, Blue lodges don't.

Jay-Z is a bright guy btw.

reply to post by OnTheLevel213

If you didn't, then we have a very different definition of "clearly". If something is "clearly" Masonic, shouldn't it have a place in Freemasonry?

"Clearly" as in, its not symbollic of a diamond. They've never at any point had a diamond associated with their brand/label/music. "Clearly" as in the sign clearly resembles the shape of the square.

That is, however, the point of the thread, and you've defended the affirmative.

the point was that he's a luciferian... a worshipper of the "light-bearer".

About a third of this planet is. The exception is that most call Him Jesus.

Freemasons don't worship Jesus, by the look of your ATS name you should know this. Lucifer, the proper noun exalted in Freemasonry and Luciferianism is in no way synonymous with Jesus Christ. Luciferianism is the focusing on and praising of the "good" that was in Lucifer(the pronoun) prior to his fall from grace and subsequent renaming to "Satan." Either way its still Satan worship.

Similarly if someone has a picture of Hitler on the wall and they say, "I'm not paying homage to "Nazi Fuhrer Hitler", I'm paying homage to "Painter Hitler", you would look at them like they're crazy. Either way its Hitler.

To allude that Freemasons/Luciferians are really worshipping Jesus is deceptive.

Certain Masons have used the term in works tangentially related to Freemasonry, but it's hardly characteristic of the Craft.

Freemasons endorse Lucifer as the "Great Architect of the Universe". I've been told that first hand but since I know that doesn't stand in an online discussion feel free to look it up and draw the connections yourself. I encourage it, although I have a feeling you won't bother.

A White House official ("staffer" may be the more appropriate term) is responsible for affixing the seal of the President to a podium where the President is speaking, and removing it when he is finished. The caption identifies the photo as being of this process.

The piece that photo is from was published on May 24, 2008. Obama didn't win the election until Nov 2008... hence the title of the piece identifying him as Senator... Like I said, if you're willing to believe they grabbed a totally random black guy for the photo and in some insane example of oversight failed to request that said random black guy remove his Freemason ring for the photo where his hands would be prominently featured, be my guest. That just seems HIGHLY unlikely given how composed the picture is and its attention to detail, the status of Newsweek and the fact that an editor has to sign off on it before it ever gets near a printer.

No, but the policies regarding which Masons are and are not public information seem absurd when you look at who has been acknowledged and who is supposedly "hidden".

That's still basing your argument on what YOU would do if you were in charge of their "public relations" not an established rule that any notable member must be pointed out and paraded around for all to see.

Then a few examples shouldn't be a big deal.

Ty Cob
Jack Dempsey
Sugar Ray Robinson
Garret Morgan
Nat King Cole
Medgar Evers
Jesse Jackson
Duke Ellington
W.E.B. DuBois
Thurgood Marshall
Richard Pryor!!
This isn't even a fraction of notable freemasons that most people probably never knew were members.

Neutrally speaking, when your roster includes so many notable people you don't have to "toot your own horn" as you seem to expect they should be required to do. They don't have to "prove" that big names are involved with them, its well known. To expect that they would run to hoist Jay-Z up on their shoulders and prance around town and that their not having done so somehow means he's definitely not a member is silly.

I'd love to know on what evidence you're making this claim. Who was polled? How was the poll conducted? How do you know the numbers of people who assume a conspiracy theory to be correct?

/3es7y4k
Its really not that hard to get a good idea of how many people think he's a mason dude. I'm not a random isolated case. Why would the subject even have an entire thread dedicated to it on a non-hip-hop based website if I was "the only one who thinks that"? I certainly didn't create this thread, nor the hundreds of other discussions on the web about his allegiances. From that you can logically deduce there must be a bunch of other people out there that think the same thing.

And you didn't address why he would use freemason symbols so prominently in his apparel and why he would even be interested in doing so if he had no ties whatsoever to the organization. That's like if I was to deny being a Christian but then have an entire season of clothes promoting Christianity in multiple ways using both phrases and symbols.

reply to post by goobersnooch


generally church congregations do not wear masonic aprons.

Originally posted by Watts
Freemasons don't worship Jesus, by the look of your ATS name you should know this. Lucifer, the proper noun exalted in Freemasonry and Luciferianism is in no way synonymous with Jesus Christ. Luciferianism is the focusing on and praising of the "good" that was in Lucifer(the pronoun) prior to his fall from grace and subsequent renaming to "Satan." Either way its still Satan worship.

To allude that Freemasons/Luciferians are really worshipping Jesus is deceptive.

What does the worshipping off Jesus have to do with anything? Why is this a factor at all?

Additionally, there is no reference or implication to Lucifer in any Masonic ritual nor is anyone encouraged to pay homage to anyone but God.

I personally do not believe in Satan so how could I be worshipping something that does not exist for me?

What i dont get is, if its freemason meeting then why is someone in there taking photos to spread around? if these guys are supposed to be so super sectrative then i cant imagine they would be distributing pictures of thier meetings online.

Originally posted by Watts
That can't be argued. There's thousands of members in places of high stature, politically and monetarily, that they haven't paraded around.

Originally posted by OnTheLevel213
Then a few examples shouldn't be a big deal.

Originally posted by Watts
Ty Cob dead
Jack Dempsey dead
Sugar Ray Robinson dead
Garret Morgan dead
Nat King Cole dead
Medgar Evers dead
Jesse Jackson brain dead
Duke Ellington dead
W.E.B. DuBois dead
Thurgood Marshall dead
Richard Pryor!! dead

reply to post by Watts

I do worship Jesus and no man can say otherwise as they cannot define my relationship with the Almighty nor God's judgement of me.

Please tell me where in any part of the ritual is Lucifer mentioned? There is however mention of Christ in a Masonic ritual, as well as a lot of Biblical use in Freemasonry.

Satan cannot be a supreme being as he is a creation of God and not worthy of worship as a god. He is still inferior to the Everliving God. Of course you've heard it "first hand". Most anti-Masons always have a "friend" that can "confirm" their suspicions.

reply to post by thelobp

I have several pictures of my Lodge, and they are on my FaceBook

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by Watts
Ty Cob dead
Jack Dempsey dead
Sugar Ray Robinson dead
Garret Morgan dead
Nat King Cole dead
Medgar Evers dead
Jesse Jackson brain dead
Duke Ellington dead
W.E.B. DuBois dead
Thurgood Marshall dead
Richard Pryor!! dead

My Gawd, the Masons killed them all!
If that isn't proof-positive of a Masonic conspiracy, I don't know what is!

Fitz

Originally posted by thelobp
What i dont get is, if its freemason meeting then why is someone in there taking photos to spread around? if these guys are supposed to be so super sectrative then i cant imagine they would be distributing pictures of thier meetings online.

Its already been suggested that its probably not an official meeting given the presence of women and open windows...more likely its a funeral or something. But it can't be argued that these men aren't freemasons.

Originally posted by Watts

Its already been suggested that its probably not an official meeting given the presence of women and open windows...more likely its a funeral or something. But it can't be argued that these men aren't freemasons.

Some of the men are Freemasons , but this does not mean ALL of the men in the photograph are Freemasons . I have photos of myself and other lodge members in our regalia with non-Masons , doesn't mean that those non-Masons are Masons just because they are in close proximity with us now does it ?

Originally posted by Watts
"Clearly" as in, its not symbollic of a diamond..."Clearly" as in the sign clearly resembles the shape of the square.

Neither of those are "clear" except in your own opinion. I personally don't see how one can objectively look at a four-cornered symbol and say it looks more like a six-pointed symbol than another four-cornered one.

They've never at any point had a diamond associated with their brand/label/music.

Except to repeatedly call said symbol the diamond, shorten their brand's name to "The Roc" (rock being a slang term for diamond), and record several songs referring to a diamond being forever. I'd say those are pretty strong associations.

Freemasons don't worship Jesus, by the look of your ATS name you should know this.

Most Freemasons are Christian, but Freemasonry itself is not, which is why I never said it was or anything like it.

Lucifer, the proper noun exalted in Freemasonry and Luciferianism

I'm guessing you're the person who's found the long-lost mention of Lucifer in Masonic ritual. Please post this; we're all dying to know.

is in no way synonymous with Jesus Christ.

Actually, in the only original text of the Bible which includes the term "Lucifer" at all (the Vulgate) refers to Jesus by exactly that term.

Luciferianism is the focusing on and praising of the "good" that was in Lucifer(the pronoun) prior to his fall from grace and subsequent renaming to "Satan." Either way its still Satan worship.

Not a word of that is biblical, and even less is Masonic.

To allude that Freemasons/Luciferians are really worshipping Jesus is deceptive.

Which is why I didn't. Read it again.

Moreover, to allude that Freemasons are Satanists is absurd.

Freemasons endorse Lucifer as the "Great Architect of the Universe".

False. That title refers to God.

I've been told that first hand but since I know that doesn't stand in an online discussion feel free to look it up and draw the connections yourself. I encourage it, although I have a feeling you won't bother.

I have. Several times. I've seen every argument the lunatic fringe has proffered on the subject. I've yet to find anything remotely true.

The piece that photo is from was published on May 24, 2008. Obama didn't win the election until Nov 2008... hence the title of the piece identifying him as Senator...

Then it can't be Obama anyway, as the caption clearly refers to the presidential seal being affixed.

Like I said, if you're willing to believe they grabbed a totally random black guy for the photo and in some insane example of oversight failed to request that said random black guy remove his Freemason ring for the photo where his hands would be prominently featured, be my guest.

Is it somehow more believable that Barack Obama was simultaneously a Democratic Senator and on the staff of George W. Bush?

That's still basing your argument on what YOU would do if you were in charge of their "public relations" not an established rule that any notable member must be pointed out and paraded around for all to see.

No, it's based on the fact that well-known Masons have, in every example I've ever seen, been proudly acknowledged by the Craft, and the fact that it's incredibly easy to verify Masonic membership.

Ty Cob
Jack Dempsey
Sugar Ray Robinson
Garret Morgan
Nat King Cole
Medgar Evers
Jesse Jackson
Duke Ellington
W.E.B. DuBois
Thurgood Marshall
Richard Pryor!!
This isn't even a fraction of notable freemasons that most people probably never knew were members.

To a man, I was able to find the lodge name, lodge number, and initiated/passed/raised dates of each, all on Masonic websites.

Neutrally speaking, when your roster includes so many notable people you don't have to "toot your own horn" as you seem to expect they should be required to do.

I never said that. I said it's ludicrous that no one would have been able to verify his membership, as in every single one of your examples.

To expect that they would run to hoist Jay-Z up on their shoulders and prance around town and that their not having done so somehow means he's definitely not a member is silly.

I didn't say Masonry itself had the responsibility; I said that those claiming Jay-Z was a Freemason had a responsibility to show evidence for it.

Its really not that hard to get a good idea of how many people think he's a mason dude.

You were the one who said "as many, if not more, people think he's a Freemason." Condescending Google links are not evidence of that. You've shortened the goalposts by about twenty yards here.

you can logically deduce there must be a bunch of other people out there that think the same thing.

"A bunch" was not your claim, and it's not what I addressed.

And you didn't address why he would use freemason symbols so prominently in his apparel and why he would even be interested in doing so if he had no ties whatsoever to the organization.

Actually, I did. He's attracted to the image of power, for which Freemasonry has an (undeserved) reputation. You decided this was "evidence", and when I pointed out that it was meaningless, you forgot I addressed it.

That's like if I was to deny being a Christian but then have an entire season of clothes promoting Christianity in multiple ways using both phrases and symbols.

Do you also believe Jay-Z is the scion of a wealthy New York family? DO you believe he's Kanye West's literal big brother? Do you believe he's God Himself? I mean, as long as we're taking Jay-Z references absolutely literally....

I have believed for a while that hip-hop was "controlled" by the Illuminati, after all, Hip-hop changed the world. With regards to Jay Z being a mason, lets look at some possible evidence:

His new album cover with Kanye West;

Sorry, it wouldn't let me embed the pic.

And theres the weird hand symbols that seem to crop up every where in the Hip-hop world;

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/4256b72c23ca.jpg[/atsimg]

There are loads of connections between "hip-hop" and the Illuminati, whether though it means anything.....well you be the judge.



ALS

reply to post by ALOSTSOUL


How exactly did hiphop change the world? Lets face it, we're talking about a bunch of nearly retarded gang bangers that make ridiculous amounts of money by selling albums to the lowest common denominator. People with absolutely no culture, education, or power. Hip hop culture is exactly what Mike Judge was pointing out in the movie Idiocracy. The dumbing down of society. And It's happening at an alarming rate, the least educated dumbest people are having the most kids.

The old white dude definitely looks out of place

reply to post by R3N3G4D3


Hey rubes--THIS IS A FUNERAL with a Masonic Compliment. Maybe YOU have been to one too.

#1 No women in an open Lodge!

#2 This is NOT a Lodge room!

#3 Jay Z is NOT wearing regalia!

Any questions?

It looks a bit photo shopped to me.
Look at Jay-Z's skin tone compared to those sitting next to him.
Why is he all bright and shiny and the others are dull?

I agree, how do we know that it was not Photo Shopped? Moreover, I have never seen a Masonic lodge that you can see into clearly from the outside. And Jay-Z is not wearing anything Masonic. This is clearly a church gathering with some Masons in the audience. That would explain all of the women and onlookers.

reply to post by 123AZ


Being a MM myself, brother, do not forget the installation of officers which happens yearly, and is open to the public.