Let's Fix the United States

This was a reply of mine in another thread. I am posting it here as its own thread as I want to get some feedback on these thoughts.

The solution:

1) A new national non-profit to index/certify (annually) companies that are

a) not outsourcing (working with foreign companies is not the same as outsourcing, completely diff. things actually)
b) not continually cheapening their product (components would need to meet some established standards)... you can only make a cheeseburger so cheap before you're eating cardboard...
c) have

i pass on more government beaucracy thats the reason we are in this mess.

if you want to fix it get government the hell out of the way instead of slitting our wrists.

ask yourself why is it cheaper to have a product made 10 thousands miles away instead of having it made 1 mile from where you live.

globalization,education,government rules and regulations,taxes,unions and money is why we are where we are.

create a competitive environment and get out the way the market dictates price and compensation from the demand.

Don't listen to constant downer and close-minded conservative Neo - rewarding American companies for being loyal Americans and also not being huge corporations is a good thing. I think it would be a great idea if you could get our awful politicians to support it

American citizens need to pressure all members of Congress to sever ties with large corporations. The entire system is corrupted, but we need millions of people to act NOW. Get on the phones, email main stream media and put pressure on them. Yes, yes, I know most of them have been corrupted. Get a rally together and have banners. Be peaceful. Get on the news in your communities. Whatever it takes, but get moving.

All of a sudden Band-Aid and gauze pads will be rendered not for profit. That should be interesting. Will Obama make himself the CEO of that company that makes N95 masks and be sure that taxpayers pay for it so that masks are free for health care workers? I'm sorry, but you have not thought through your whole not-for-profit health care thing. Were you thinking of those do-it-yourself clinics in Cuba where you have bring your own bedlinens? Or should Obama be the CEO also of whatever company makes those linens for hospital beds, and the State can have ownership of it. Seems like a huge post full of Statist regulations and State owned production.

One more thing, if you really want to give companies an incentive not to outsource, then it has to come through ways not to tax corporations to death. Corporations either will outsource or they will pass the cost to the consumers. Or both. Wanna bring back the corporations? Don't burden them with stupid regulations based on outrageous socialistic green policies. Apparently, allowing illegals to flourish here hasn't brought back any corporations either. My guess, the simple act of depressing wages hasn't done the trick. Why? Could the answer be unions? Maybe it was Unions that drove corporations to hire illegals who don't demand pensions and who just go to the ER for health care on the taxpayer dime. And why would corporations buck that knowing that the Unions would force them to pay higher wages and ever spiraling health care costs. I noticed that you targeted outsourcing in corporations but not the hiring of illegals.

Please let me know how you feel about these proposals.

I like the first proposal without reservations. It encourages a free market solution to corporate greed and monopolization, and facilitates the kind of transparency that would discourage these trends from developing further. I would strengthen it with some sort of list of importers of cheap foreign goods, and maybe even beef it up with healthy tariffs.

The second, however, is over-thinking it. We don't have to provide doctors with houses, merely a fair (generous even) salary and they can buy their own houses, like in the rest of the industrialized world. There are plenty of excellent examples of nationalized health care systems to use as proven, effective models. Don't let the shills fool you, it works very well in a host of western nations. Offering free subway sandwiches, while amusing, is neither necessary, nor a serious enough suggestion for this very important issue. We needn't give the anti-socialist lobby fuel for their derision.

My two cents.

Originally posted by joechip

Please let me know how you feel about these proposals.

I like the first proposal without reservations. It encourages a free market solution to corporate greed and monopolization, and facilitates the kind of transparency that would discourage these trends from developing further. I would strengthen it with some sort of list of importers of cheap foreign goods, and maybe even beef it up with healthy tariffs.

The second, however, is over-thinking it. We don't have to provide doctors with houses, merely a fair (generous even) salary and they can buy their own houses, like in the rest of the industrialized world. There are plenty of excellent examples of nationalized health care systems to use as proven, effective models. Don't let the shills fool you, it works very well in a host of western nations. Offering free subway sandwiches, while amusing, is neither necessary, nor a serious enough suggestion for this very important issue. We needn't give the anti-socialist lobby fuel for their derision.

My two cents.

edit on 10-6-2011 by joechip because: spelling

edit on 10-6-2011 by joechip because: editing myself a bit

So on one side of your mouth you say paying doctor's salaries is enough so they can buy their own houses, but on the other you sport a desire for nationalized health care. Also, the OP suggests that the State provide for the homes of not just doctors but anyone who works in healthcare, or at least that's how I read it. If the healthcare system was not-for-profit, the State would have to pay for it, which means the taxpayers pay for it, which means its nationalized. So, basically, whether the State pays doctor salaries or homes for healthcare workers, it's still Socialized medicine, but even far more socialized than even the Obama mandates. In fact it sounds communist. What's missing is that the State also controls what the doctor gets paid, no matter what his expertise is, and the State can control where he practices. Maybe under this Statist model, doctors and medical assistants all get the same housing? Maybe apartments like it seems Obama wants.

So on one side of your mouth you say paying doctor's salaries is enough so they can buy their own houses, but on the other you sport a desire for nationalized health care.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus


I certainly did NOT speak "out of both sides of my mouth." I support a nationalized health care system much like the one in the UK, Germany, and most of the rest of the industrialized western world. Unashamedly. I believe for profit health care is immoral, and inefficient, and that our system is a result of heavy lobbying and uninformed demagoguery such as you are exemplifying. I only gave the OP my feedback as to how to go about implementing such a system without micromanaging people's lives to the point of providing "housing" and sandwiches and the like, because I :
1. Think such micro-management of individuals lives anathema to a free society.
2. Believe that such notions provide fuel to ideological arguments from what pretends to be libertarian viewpoints, but is often corporate/government shills. (I saw you flinch.)
3. There are plenty of excellent examples (as I pointed out) of nationalized healthcare, no need to re-invent the wheel.

Thanks for trying, but my views were clear, and in no way contradictory..

To fix the US, we have to first fix the government. It is corrupt to the bone and no longer represents the people for which it was formed to do so.

For the life of me, I can't understand why certain political figures are voted back into office time and time again. What's wrong with a two-term limit for ALL political positions in both federal and state governments?

And with today's technology, wouldn't it be nice if systems were implemented so that "representatives" could actually poll their respective constituents on issues at hand, with both Senate and House votes reflecting the results of said polls. Now THAT would be true representation!

There are too many hands in too many pockets, influencing favor and votes. Keep the representation fresh by getting rid of the old and bringing in the new each and every time, until they finally learn that we're serious about THEM being serious.

Originally posted by neo96
i pass on more government beaucracy thats the reason we are in this mess.

if you want to fix it get government the hell out of the way instead of slitting our wrists.

ask yourself why is it cheaper to have a product made 10 thousands miles away instead of having it made 1 mile from where you live.

globalization,education,government rules and regulations,taxes,unions and money is why we are where we are.

create a competitive environment and get out the way the market dictates price and compensation from the demand.

You are way too misguided to be an effective thinker. What has been unraveling is corporatism not government. Lobbyists were able to deregulate most everything from chicken feed to home loans. There is no free-market. What this World is presented with... A banking syndicate and the corporate entities they've bought into, merged, or purchased outright.

How does a $5000 deductible for medical expenses sound when your trip to the ER (at roughly 45 mins) runs 2k. How about a voucher for education? How about no vouchers, and let everything run as smoothly as the healthcare industry. Pre-existing conditions, no problem. Hurt on the job, no problem. Heartburn from eating e-coli tainted meat, no problem. You can always hire an attorney and sue these corporations. See how far that gets you. It'll see you dead with your loved ones going further into debt.

No competitive environment is going to beat out labor bunked 20 to room working 18 hour days 360 days a year. Quit fooling yourself... That's how the free-market operates from 10,000 miles away. That's how it will continue to operate unless governmental bodies get involved. Rest assured you can take those facts to the bank for as long as this oligarchy is in place.


Rothschild Banks of London and Berlin
Lazares Brothers Banks of Paris
Israel Moses Seif Bank of Italy
Warburg Bank of Hamburg and Amsterdam
Lehman Brothers Bank of New York
Chase Manhattan Bank of New York
Kuhn, Loeb Bank of New York
Goldman, Sachs Bank of New York

reply to post by joechip


Really like your reply, thanks. You are right, I have been fooled that healthcare in a capitalistic system like ours is super expensive by nature, when the reality is there are no justifiable reasons why we're in this situation (at least, capitalism isn't the core cause)/why a 15-minute helicopter ride should cost 10K. Overhead... companies never trim the true fat/fix things, they just fix the bare minimum to keep their head above water, and in no time at all they're back in the same situation.

reply to post by AkumaStreak


All world need to change. Here in Brazil we have the same issues.