According to Christian tradition, Jesus isn't God

Originally posted by Theophorus
reply to post by Blue_Jay33

 

Correction,the greeks used this term (word)not only of the spoken word but also of the unspoken word,the word still in the mind-the reason.when they applied it to the universe,they meant the rational principle that governs all things. Jews used it as a way of referring to god. Thus john used a term that was meaningfull to both jews and gentiles.with god.the word was distinct from the father.was god.

tell me something,what is the proper way to view john 1?

(That and modern Greeks don't speak Koine Greek)

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


Eph 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

18The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

The Holy Ghost gives understanding of the scriptures. As you see I have used a verse that makes it seem that Jesus was not God. But you have to divide the word of truth.

1 Tim:15Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

I leave you with this:

1 Corinthians 2:10 but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God.

11For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man’s spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.

12We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.

13This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.c

14The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned

I hope you find what you are looking for.

reply to post by madnessinmysoul

Although its always a pleasure talking to yo mims, I never learn.
I guess i will not continue to hold my breath for a response. According to Christian tradition, Jesus is God. Unless you can prove theologically he is not. Nice thread though. star for your effort.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Again, appeal to genocide. There were more early Christian "fathers" (and a few "mothers" who were heavily suppressed) whose writings were destroyed and later followers killed. We know very little of what actually transpired in the first century of Christianity (contrary to what you'd claim), yet you somehow claim that all of the early Christians were trinitarian. We know there was a discussion on this. We know there were gnostics. You said that the Christian deity (who you inappropriately claimed to be Elohim, even though the orthodoxy follows a far more Yahwist position than Elohist one) was trinitarian. You didn't say "Some Christians think that its trinitarian", you made an absolute statement.

Of course, you're going to appeal to logical contradiction...

reply to post by NOTurTypical


And yet they have to learn ancient Greek in school. Living in the Mediterranean myself, I encounter Greek people and they actually study various bits of ancient Greek from different periods, which they see as a pain in the bum.

Your ignorance is showing

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


I'd imagine they study Classic Greek, I highly doubt they study Koine unless as an elective.

I could be wrong, I'm not infallible.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Akragon

 

And he always speaks of God or "the Father" as a seperate entity...

Brilliant!

Perhaps that's because He isn't the Father but the Son?

So what are you confused about?

Jesus was not God, that should be obvious....

reply to post by Akragon

So what are you confused about?

Jesus was not God, that should be obvious....

No confusion here.

Jesus is not the Father, He is the Son. He is also not the Holy Ghost, He is the Son.

You can reject the Trinity, that's fine. I don't.

reply to post by madnessinmysoul

yet you somehow claim that all of the early Christians were trinitarian.

Can you show where I said "ALL the early Christians were Trinitarians"?

Or are you lying about what I said?

reply to post by Theophorus

Thus john used a term that was meaningfull to both jews and gentiles.with god.the word was distinct from the father.was god.tell me something,what is the proper way to view john 1?

Usually context helps, in this case John 1:18 (KJV)

No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.

Barnes notes said this on this verse

In the bosom of the Father - This expression is taken from the custom among the Orientals of reclining at their meals. It denotes intimacy, friendship, affection. Here it means that Jesus had a knowledge of God such as one friend has of another - knowledge of his character, designs, and nature which no other one possesses, and which renders him, therefore, qualified above all others to make him known.

Jesus Christ as the only special son of God has god like powers and thus is considerd to be a god from
scripture, but then again Satan is considered to be a god too for the level of power he wields. Different than Almighty God.

Jesus Christ and Almighty God are one in unity, but they are totally separate beings, Jesus Christ has free will separate from his Father, if he didn't, the ransom would have value to humanity.

Actually he is...

Did you forget the whole "I and the father are one" business?

Of course this means that the sole authority comes from within the man and this goes for all humanity.... but that's only for those with eyes to see and ears to hear...

:-)

reply to post by Theophorus


Where in scripture is there one verse where God says that Jesus is God? Anywhere? Anyone? I know several where God refers to Jesus as his Son, His only begotten Son. But I know of none where Almighty God Himself, states that Jesus is God, and in those words.

The trinity theology is man made. There is but ONE God, God makes it pretty clear to not have any other "gods" before him.

Originally posted by aero56
reply to post by Theophorus

 

Where in scripture is there one verse where God says that Jesus is God? Anywhere? Anyone? I know several where God refers to Jesus as his Son, His only begotten Son. But I know of none where Almighty God Himself, states that Jesus is God, and in those words.

The trinity theology is man made. There is but ONE God, God makes it pretty clear to not have any other "gods" before him.

jesus clearly says that Revelation 22:13   I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. There can only be one first,one last,one beginning,one end.god does not have to say jesus is god.Jesus declaired that himself. Ok now a quick question for you. Since god exists in eternity, how long did god have to wait until he was mature enough to have a son.(dont rack your brain to hard)see, theology is everything. Ignorance is bliss

reply to post by Theophorus

jesus clearly says that Revelation 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. There can only be one first,one last,one beginning,one end.god does not have to say jesus is god.Jesus declaired that himself.

nonsence...

Revelations was written by an old man in a cave... it can't prove or predict anything.

Jesus never said he was God, its as simple as that

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by Theophorus

 

jesus clearly says that Revelation 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. There can only be one first,one last,one beginning,one end.god does not have to say jesus is god.Jesus declaired that himself.

nonsence...

Revelations was written by an old man in a cave... it can't prove or predict anything.

Jesus never said he was God, its as simple as that

ignorance is not only bliss, its also arrogant. First off the book of revelation is the only book in the bible attributed to jesus.this was the revelation of jesus which god gave him to show his servents what must soon take place.So if any book holds true as to what jesus said, revelation would be it.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Sure, right here:

The OP is ridiculous. The Christian God, "Elohim", is a Triune God. (Trinity)

...that's implying that all Christians are Trinitarian or or that all non-trinitarians aren't Christians.

reply to post by Blue_Jay33


Ah, look, another contradiction!
What about Moses? Ismael's mother? Last I checked, both of them directly saw God....yet Jesus claims that none have.

reply to post by Theophorus


You didn't answer my question.

reply to post by aero56



Allow me!

Originally posted by aero56
Where in scripture is there one verse where God says that Jesus is God?

There isn’t… I checked!

God only refers to Jesus a his son…

Also Jesus, only refers to himself as the Son, in many parts of the New Testament.

Originally posted by aero56
The trinity theology is man made.

That’s what I believe also, based on the various verses in the biblical text.

Originally posted by aero56
There is but ONE God, God makes it pretty clear to not have any other "gods" before him.

Exactly, "God is one", as is mentioned in the OT.

I really don’t know what believers are going to say, when they get to Heaven, and see Jesus seated at the right hand of the Father/God, as is written in the scriptures.



- JC

reply to post by aero56


Ok, listen real close.God did not say Jesus is god because god is jesus.Jesus, who is god, declaired himself he.What part of the answer dont you understand? And also you are very misleading joe. Jesus refers to himself as "son of man" and "son of god". Now please joe, ask yourself what those two terms actually mean. Please dont let me hold my breath.