Utah man cited for paying disputed bill with 2,500 pennies

A Utah man has been cited on a charge of disorderly conduct after paying for a disputed medical bill with 2,500 pennies.

The Deseret News of Salt Lake City reports Jason West went to Basin Clinic in Vernal on May 27 prepared to dispute an outstanding $25 bill.

Assistant Vernal Police Chief Keith Campbell says that after asking staff members whether they accepted cash, West dumped 2,500 pennies on the counter and demanded that staff count them.

Campbell says the incident upset staff because pennies were strewn about the counter and floor, and West's action served "no legitimate purpose."

Police later issued the 38-year-old West a citation for disorderly conduct. That carries a fine of as much as $140. Or 14,000 pennies.

Source

I did a search and found a similar thread dated 2008....

ATS Thread

Motive (disgruntled payer) and methods of payment are indeed similar, and it appears that repercussions from TPTB remain unchanged as well. I know this is a rhetorical question, but what is going on here?

First, I learn of laws banning dancing at a national memorial and now, people are being fined for paying their bills in government issued legal tender.

I take exceptional issue with Chief Cambell's statement that Mr. West's "action served 'no legitimate purpose.'" He legitimately paid a debt, despite the fact it was disputed. Staffers were "upset" because the coins were strewed on counter and floor. Imagine Mr. West's emotional upset over a debt that may not have been legitimate. Had he chosen not to render payment, then he's likely in for months of letters and calls from debt collection agencies, a nasty hit on his credit rating, and possible further legal actions taken against him. A disorderly conduct citation is adding insult atop injury.

For the supporters of the status quo who say he might have resolved the situation through mediation, indeed, he might have, yet having gone through a similar circumstance while attempting to resolve an insurance blunder, I sincerely doubt it. While attempting to unravel the insurance snafu (effectively doing the processor's job), I was still subjected to a barrage of intimidating calls and mail. Each new fool I spoke or corresponded with had to be clued in to what was going on each time and it did not a single iota of good.

Had I been one of the clinic's staffers, assuredly I too probably would have been "upset" at having to count 2,500 pennies, but as I see it, taking payments would be part of the job description, so despite the Yosemite Sam cursing going on in my head, I would have started counting instead of calling the police.

9-1-1. What's the trouble?
This is the clinic. Can you send a car over right away? We've got a guy here trying to pay his bill.

Heaven help us all.

So pennies aren't legal tender anymore?

Yes? No?

This nation gets dumber by the day.

Disorderly conduct for using cash to pay for a bill.

Is cash not cash? Or you only want quarters?

I like the guy Jason, he made a great point. He shows just how dumb and huge of jerks these people really are.

"Call the cops on him!!!! He used Pennies!!!"

You're being missled by the media again. It's not because he paid with pennies...

"Campbell says the incident upset staff because pennies were strewn about the counter and floor, and West's action served "no legitimate purpose.""


He was an ass and slammed pennies on the counter, tossed them on the floor and demanded they count them.


The media has a way of leading you to see the wrong side of reports for their own purpose.. They know their catchy title will make you read them with sympathy for the old guy when it was just him really being a jerk.

What the crap!
I work in the banking industry, pennies are money! If someone comes to my window with 20000 or whatever in rolled pennies, I have to take it... it is legal tender! This truly is stupid!

Money is money... on a side note, there was girl in the county several years ago named Penny, her parents saved pennies for her and when she got old enough she saved them herself until she had saved 1 million pennies! They then brought the pennies by wheelbarrow to the local car lot and she bought a car with said pennies... nobody friggin' called 911 on her!

Originally posted by theRhenn
You're being missled by the media again. It's not because he paid with pennies...

"Campbell says the incident upset staff because pennies were strewn about the counter and floor, and West's action served "no legitimate purpose.""

Youre right; so use this as a training aid people....make sure they are rolled up nicely and speak in a kindly manner to those serving you, as you protest. Also, dont forget to smile at the policeman right before he beats you then takes you away.

People really need to read this part:

West dumped 2,500 pennies on the counter and demanded that staff count them.

Campbell says the incident upset staff because pennies were strewn about the counter and floor...

What people need to stop overlooking is not what it was paid in, but how. You don't just dump your change on the counter to the point where pennies are rolling on the ground. It's getting irritating how the mindset on ATS has become "it's always the government/big pharma's fault" when there are actually times (albeit rare) that the person in question is the stupid one.

Originally posted by aching_knuckles
Youre right; so use this as a training aid people....make sure they are rolled up nicely and speak in a kindly manner to those serving you, as you protest.

Don't try and compare slamming pennies on a counter and degrading others for your own amusement to "fight the man" to police brutality. That is ridiculous.

Originally posted by Greenize
What the crap!
I work in the banking industry, pennies are money! If someone comes to my window with 20000 or whatever in rolled pennies, I have to take it... it is legal tender! This truly is stupid!

What if they come to your window with $25 in 1 cent coins and let them fall on the floor and fall everywhere.

It does appear the paying was not the problem, but the manner in which he paid.

I mean I cant walk into a hungry jacks and buy a whopper by throwing a $10 note at the cashier... or worse, to her but on the floor?

Originally posted by muzzleflash
So pennies aren't legal tender anymore?

Yes? No?

This nation gets dumber by the day.

Disorderly conduct for using cash to pay for a bill.

Yes, they are.

Apparently more and more are losing their ability to read, as well. Disorderly conduct was because he dumped it out all over the desk... He was deliberately trying to hassle them and he made a mess, throwing money everywhere....

That is what the disorderly conduct was for...Not his method of payment... But the fact that he dumped the pennies all over the desk and scaring the employees...

reply to post by SonicInfinity


That is absolutly correct... If you're going to be an ass, then I'm certain people will love to treat you in kind. I mean, wow, wth was this guys beef?? He should have paid his bill in the first place... Why get P'Oed at someone when it was his own bloody fault. Yet, people will see this as against his right to be an ass... For every action is an equal and oposite reaction.. (even if the reaction isnt the same.. you can bet karma or whoever will assure that you get the rest of it one way or the other)

Campbell says the incident upset staff because pennies were strewn about the counter and floor...

What an horrific event... these people will now suffer from Post-traumatic stress disorder and the horrific memories will be relived every time they see a penny.

reply to post by JudasIscariot


[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/8a49cda70ae5.jpg[/atsimg]

If I was a teenage girl hooked on my iPod and saw this while reaching for one of said pennies, I would definitely be scarred for life.

$25 in pennies for a medical bill?

who has that kind of money lying around!?

he was a jerk for dumping it all over.

nice and rolled and with a smile, should have been the transaction.

2006 Utah Code - 76-9-102 — Disorderly conduct.

76-9-102. Disorderly conduct.
(1) A person is guilty of disorderly conduct if:
(a) he refuses to comply with the lawful order of the police to move from a public place, or knowingly creates a hazardous or physically offensive condition, by any act which serves no legitimate purpose; or
(b) intending to cause public inconvenience, annoyance, or alarm, or recklessly creating a risk thereof, he:
(i) engages in fighting or in violent, tumultuous, or threatening behavior;
(ii) makes unreasonable noises in a public place;
(iii) makes unreasonable noises in a private place which can be heard in a public place; or
(iv) obstructs vehicular or pedestrian traffic.
(2) "Public place," for the purpose of this section, means any place to which the public or a substantial group of the public has access and includes but is not limited to streets, highways, and the common areas of schools, hospitals, apartment houses, office buildings, transport facilities, and shops.
(3) Disorderly conduct is a class C misdemeanor if the offense continues after a request by a person to desist. Otherwise it is an infraction.

Amended by Chapter 20, 1999 General Session

Law.justica.com

I am by no means a lawyer, but I don't interpret Mr. West's actions as in violation of the statute. He is guilty IF (b) intending to cause....annoyance....he (i)fights,(ii)makes public noise, (iii) makes noise in private that can be heard publicly, or (iv) obstructs traffic.

I don't readily see how the statute is being applied....unless the pennies hitting the counter and floor were too loud.

Perhaps he should have placed them in the night deposit...

reply to post by badw0lf


Working in the public, you have to be ready for all kinds of behaviors in people! I have had people throw money at me, ink pens, papers.. you get the idea... people get upset... I don't call 911
.Customer service is a thing of the past anymore! Have you never gotten upset with someone who was in no way at fault for the reason you were upset. Part of working with the public is understanding how to deal with people that may be angry... I don't always like it, but a little compassion goes a long way sometimes...

Originally posted by SonicInfinity

Originally posted by aching_knuckles
Youre right; so use this as a training aid people....make sure they are rolled up nicely and speak in a kindly manner to those serving you, as you protest.

Don't try and compare slamming pennies on a counter and degrading others for your own amusement to "fight the man" to police brutality. That is ridiculous.

edit on 6/6/2011 by SonicInfinity because: Added response and fixed tags

My point is that everyone is being pussified in this country. If you want to protest, you do it nonviolently (which he did), in a way that brings attention (he did) and find a way that settles the grievance (he paid).

This guy was pissed off that he was being charged this $25. The stupid drone people making $10 an hour are enforcing the collection of this $25 for whatever company...isnt it their job to handle the backlash? They shouldnt be allowed to harass people and then call the police to back them up when a citizen makes a stand.

This is just another victory for the corporate police state. This is intended to strike fear into people and make them lap dogs, which sadly, too many on this thread prove themselves to be. It supposed to make you conform and not try to "break any rules" as you protest. Does anyone else feel like we have been nuetered? How much more milquetoast and banal can we get?

reply to post by Greenize


I agree wholeheartedly. I've been cursed and had things thrown at me as well. Never once did I feel it necessary to call the local police. People are jerks at time, but if the law intervened every time someone acted the jerk, then no one would be walking around with a clean police record.

reply to post by ladyjem


(a) he refuses to comply with the lawful order of the police to move from a public place, or knowingly creates ahazardous or physically offensive condition, by any act which serves no legitimate purpose; or

- someone coulda slipped on those pennies


(b) intending to cause public inconvenience, annoyance,


- He did that...

(ii) makes unreasonable noises in a public place;
(iii) makes unreasonable noises in a private place which can be heard in a public place; or

- Seems as though he was pretty irrate which in this case, was argumentive and "prickish"


(3) Disorderly conduct is a class C misdemeanor if the offense continues after a request by a person to desist. Otherwise it is an infraction.


- I'm sure they had their fill at any given point.

Originally posted by ladyjem
reply to post by Greenize

 

I agree wholeheartedly. I've been cursed and had things thrown at me as well. Never once did I feel it necessary to call the local police. People are jerks at time, but if the law intervened every time someone acted the jerk, then no one would be walking around with a clean police record.

Just because you dont, doesnt mean that right isnt still available to someone else.

reply to post by SonicInfinity


What?... Were the pennies covered with spiders?

reply to post by theRhenn


I'm afraid you mistake my meaning. Merely because I didn't find it necessary to call for police intervention, does not mean that I feel no one has the right to call for them. Indeed had I felt myself or any of my co-workers in jeopardy, I most certainly would have called for assistance. I was agreeing with Greenize that understanding everyone can have an off moment and trying to deal with the situation with a modicum of compassion can defuse a tense situation more effectively than responding in kind or calling in the local LEOs.

I had an incident in which a lady's credit card was declined and I was cursed roundly and soundly, though the situation was not of my making, nor was being able to re-instate her purchasing ability within my power. I did not appreciate her attitude, but I did not reply in kind. I assisted her politely and to the best of my ability. I went home feeling rightly abused, yet a few days later she returned and apologized profusely. It seems that the day of the incident, she had discovered her husband was having an affair and without her knowledge, he had canceled all joint credit accounts. Indeed, she told me how much she appreciated my handling her tantrum and that she doubted she could have done as well under the circumstances.