A Scientific Experiment to test existence of God.

reply to post by venusstarlite


I would have preferred if you had read the original post and messaged me instead of writing page length interpretations on this thread. And you are so selfish! You actually don't want your God to protect people from harm??? And you come up with an excuse for God and not for yourself?

Jacob tested and fought with God...Moses defied God and changed his mind. Moses saved thousands of lives that day

God tested Abraham by asking him to kill his own son, and God tests people by putting them in misery...my tests are better. I am not asking God to kill people or put them in misery.

I am asking God to spare people, didn't Jesus say mercy is better than sacrifice?

I clearly stated a policy that no one is to defend God. I don't want to repeat myself.

Read the original post. Thank you!

reply to post by venusstarlite


You wrote:

["In the end, faith is faith. We cannot prove much,Aristotle suggested that everything we see, touch, taste, and experience is really just a shadow of reality. Quantum Physics suggests that we only exist only so long as we’re beheld. And God seems to refuse to be tested in any way we might recognize. Apparently, it’s only in the believing that “proof” can be discovered. Perhaps the writer of the Wisdom of Solomon (one of the Apocryphal books): God is found by those who do not put him to the test, and manifests himself to those who do not distrust him”."]

This whole epistemological perspective was already taken up by the major asian religions/semi-religions long time before christianity. And with a much better quality and relevance.

Your following pro-theist arguments (shaded) are a/ verbal embellishments, vaguely referring to scientific positions or results, which don't exist as presented; and b/ the archeological argument. Here's my version: Spiderman went to college in New York, in two thousand years New York will be found, ergo...Spiderman is real.

Quote: ["I,will not test my bible or Gods word.There is so much proof out there about the bible"]

You could start by presenting some which is REAL.

I really hope that this thread has been a great exercise in understanding the cognitive dissonance of believers who claim that their deity can do everything but is somehow unable or unwilling to do anything within the parameters defined by someone who was supposedly that deity.

Wish I could give this thread another flag

reply to post by LiveEquation

You got me wrong,God,Jesus still answers prayers and saves people everyday.I believe in prayer,I,have had all my prayers answered. Also God is never late on answering prayer.What I,am saying is God answers prayer still,but when its the right time.He answer our prayers,but you must know,it may not be what you want.He answers yours and my prayers as he thinks fit. I,do and believe he can save people and heal people. You got it wrong,I,was just saying don't test God. We are to pray to God for answers and help,have faith.Its the the way you wrote your thread it looks like you are testing God ,not asking him for help.If you are asking for help,great,I,will pray with you for a answer. Seek and you shall find.I,pray all the time for the wars to end,and for Jesus to come quickly. But Only God knows this time will happen.There will be a short peace,a false peace,then a great war.Its in the book of revelation. Oh,I,am far from being selfish,I,pray for health and safety of the whole world.You don't me,I,am on you-tube.com/thevenusstarlite,melody edington on Facebook.I,am a Christian,I,love everyone and foegive everyone,just like Jesus.Sorry,I,upset you.

reply to post by bogomil


You,can read all faith articles on my site. But if you want proof,here I,can.My bible is proof and archeology in Israel is proof. It proves the bible right and there is many books on this to.

reply to post by venusstarlite


You wrote:

["Also God is never late on answering prayer"]

As many of the (other) alleged 'gods' also allegedly have done.

reply to post by bogomil


I,Just can say is .........GOD WORD IS THE SAME AS YESTERDAY AND IS THE SAME TODAY. His word never changes.


I am constantly amazed by the fact that the Bible, written so long ago, is still relevant today. In Matthew 24:3, Jesus tells us, “Heaven and earth will pass away but My words shall not pass away.” Again in Isaiah 40:8, God assures us, “The grass withers, the flower fades, but the Word of God stands forever.” The Bible has stood the test of time. The words of wisdom found in Scriptures of old still hold true today. The truths and principles therein are as applicable to our lives as they were to the lives of Abraham, David and the Apostle Paul. History has also proven God’s Word to be true. As far as researchers have been able to determine, the events, people and places in the Bible are accurate. For example, when a debate arose many years ago over the book of Acts, the Roman historian Sherwin White wrote, “The facts authenticating the book of Acts are overwhelming. Any attempts to disprove its historicity even in matters of detail are absurd.” Additionally, archaeology has proven Scripture to be true. The great archaeologist William Albright said, “All radical schools in New Testament criticism which have existed in the past or the present are pre-archaeological and are quite antiquated today.” In other words, all archaeological evidence that continues to unfold only supports Scripture as accurate and true. If you are interested in reading more about the existing archaeological evidence supporting the reliability of the Bible, I would urge you to read Josh McDowell’s book, A Ready Defense.In matters of science, the Bible speaks in simple, yet correct terms that avoid absurdities. For example, some non-biblical accounts of creation border on the ridiculous, whereas the Bible is nowhere guilty of this. The Babylonian creation myth, for instance, developed during pre-scientific times, suggests the crude proposition that the earth was formed from a dismembered part of one of the gods after a fight occurred between them in heaven. The biblical narrative, on the other hand, is concise, sensible and above all, accurate. www.starwire.com...

reply to post by bogomil


Are Prayers Answered?

YES!! Without question, God answers prayers. It may not be when we want or when we seem to need it most, but He has a plan for each of us, and in time our prayers will be answered, according to His plan.
Have you prayed? The first and fundamental principle of answered prayer is faithfulness in prayer itself. Paul urged the Thessalonians, "pray continually; give thanks in all circumstances, for this is God's will for you in Christ Jesus" (1 Thess. 5:17-18). Paul exhorted the Ephesians, "And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests" (Eph. 6:18a). Christ assured His disciples, "Ask and it will be given you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened" (Matt. 7:7-8).

Faithful continued prayer is one key to answered prayer. As James expresses it, "You do not have, because you do not ask God" (James 4:2b). In the words of "What a Friend We Have in Jesus":

O what peace we often forfeit,
O what needless pain we bear,
All because we do not carry
Everything to God in prayer.

If we expect God to answer, we must be faithful in prayer. Yet there is also the wonderful principle of grace that enables God to give us more than we ask. Countless blessings are showered on the Christian every day. Paul expressed this, "Now to him who is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine, according to his power that is at work within us" (Eph. 3:20). But it all begins with faithful prayer.

Have you prayed according to the will of God? Again and again in the Bible the truth is emphasized that prayer must be according to God's will. Prayer is not a means for us to persuade a reluctant God to do something which is against His better judgment. Prayer, rather is coming to God for the fulfillment of His will, coming to a God who delights to answer prayer.

Praying in the will of God means that the prayer must be in harmony with what God has revealed to be His plan for the world. Our petitions must be in harmony with God's holy and righteous character. What we desire from God must be to the best interest of ourselves and others, even though we may not always know what is ultimately best.

If we pray in the will of God, we can be sure that God will answer. The Apostle John wrote, "We have this assurance in approaching God, that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us. And if we know that he hears us —whatever we ask — we know that we have what we asked of him" (1 John 5:14-15). These are great promises. In prayer we can approach God with complete assurance of His ability to answer us. There is no limit to what we can ask, if it is according to His will.

John goes on to say that there are prayer requests that God cannot answer because they are not according to His will and not for our best interest (1 John 5:16). James expressed it, "When you ask, you do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures" (James 4:3). Selfish prayers will not be honored by God. Prayer is God's appointed means to receive what is best for us and others and to realize what Paul called "what God's will is — his good, pleasing and perfect will" (Rom. 12:2b). But what infinite power and possibilities there are in prayer that is according to the will of God.

Is it God's time to answer your prayers? Many times in the experience of those who pray faithfully, God does not say, "No," but, "Wait." There is a proper timing for answered prayer. Sometimes God needs to wait until we are ready for the answer, or perhaps others need to be made ready. Sometimes a delay is necessary to fit into God's overall program.
Is Your Prayer to the Glory Of God? The most searching question we face in prayer is whether our petition is for our own selfish interest, pride, or attainment, or whether it is really to the glory of God. Answers to prayer must always honor God and bring glory to Him. This is one reason prayer must be offered in the name of Christ. Christ assured His disciples, "If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be given you... . the Father will give you whatever you ask in my name" (John 15:7, 16b; cf. John 14:13-14).

God delights in honoring His Son. He loves to recognize what His Son has done on the cross to open the floodtides of grace for the believer. Prayer that is offered in the name of Christ and to the glory of Christ is prayer that God can answer. Praying in the name of Christ is a recognition of His infinite person, His deity and majesty. It is recognition of His power to do anything He wills to do. It is recognition of His grace that makes it possible for Him to answer the prayers of imperfect believers. Answered prayer also honors God's promised word, for God cannot lie.

But prayer which glorifies God requires that the person who prays be one whom God delights to honor. We must do some heart-searching to be sure that there is no hindering sin in our lives. As the Psalmist prayed, "Search me, 0 God, and know my heart; Try me and know my anxious thoughts; And see if there be any hurtful way in me, And lead me in the everlasting way" (Ps. 139:23-24). As the Psalmist expressed it elsewhere, "If I regard wickedness in my heart, The Lord will not hear" (Ps. 66:18). The Psalmist goes on, however, with the reassuring word, "But certainly God has heard; He has given heed to the voice of my prayer" (Ps. 66:19)


I,hope this helps.God is spiritual,those other Gods are fake,stone,anything made my hand.

Originally posted by venusstarlite
reply to post by bogomil

 

You,can read all faith articles on my site. But if you want proof,here I,can.My bible is proof and archeology in Israel is proof. It proves the bible right and there is many books on this to.

edit on 6-6-2011 by venusstarlite because: (no reason given)

You not only provide the material to be 'proved', you also hijack other struth/reality-seeking methods and adapt them to your needs.

Your earlier references to science, none of which points to evidence FOR theist claims, is vaguely used to justify such claims by the following quote:

["By extension, life's appearance on Earth by a supernatural, extra-universal Intelligence should also be detectable and testable"]

WHAT extension? A theist speculation that science will lead to hoped-for support of theism. Another prophecy? Such guesses are not part of scientific method.

Quote: ["My bible is proof "]

You decide what's 'proof' for you. But that's not 'proof' in the standard meaning of the word. Your position is called 'faith'.

Quote: ["archeology in Israel is proof."]

So Spiderman IS real then.

And also Zeus, because Troy did exist?

reply to post by venusstarlite


Could you stop posting interpretations of the bible?

I believe we have discussed credibility of bible interpretations before and I pointed out that believers suffer from the "Camping" Syndrome.

Like i said before, let God defend himself.

Before you judge this experiment:

1. Absolute truth can withstand any test at any time without constraints.
2. Absolute truth doesn't change no matter what input is used.
3. Regardless of input and constraints: the original truth remains unchanged and is the only output.

So have no fear that your God is not properly represented.

We will see what absolute truth remains after 24 days of this experiment.

reply to post by bogomil

Quote: ["archeology in Israel is proof."]

So Spiderman IS real then.

And also Zeus, because Troy did exist?,So,my friend.You don't believe science then,the archeology is a part of science. They have the proof that they dug up in Israel.You are calling all that proof lies? Even the dead scrolls and the copper scrolls? They are the bible.The bible was wrote in Hebrew for the old testament,the new is in Greek. So,all these people are liers.I,am afraid my friend,you got facts wrong . We can't change or hide the truth of the archeology of Israel. Troy does exit,but the rest,as for Zeus is a folk thing.Back then they believed in heaven things,from the stars.That's another subject.


,
agards-bible-timeline.com...
agards-bible-timeline.com...

,you can't deny these from ISRAEL.

reply to post by LiveEquation

You know,I,thought about this.You go ahead and put God on trial,(test him).He sees and knows all.I,will not be a part of it.I,will pray for health and peace and safety for the world tho.Also my God is represented,scales will from all of your eyes.When judgement day comes,you will remember this day.It is called free will and free choice,this is your right.We all have our views.I,am not allowed to judge,I,am not God or Jesus.Jesus will judge that day.I,will not test my lord.I,will pray tho and ask for help.You may not think my lord is represented,but he is,us, Christians and the future. The book of revelations tells of this.There will a false peace then the end.,I,do hope hope tho,that your prayer is answered for safety of all people.


1 Samuel 2:3 "Do not keep talking so proudly or let your mouth speak such arrogance, for the LORD is a God who knows, and by him deeds are weighed.

For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ. (2 Corinthians 10:3-5)

reply to post by venusstarlite


You wrote:

["I,Just can say is .........GOD WORD IS THE SAME AS YESTERDAY AND IS THE SAME TODAY. His word never changes.


I am constantly amazed by the fact that the Bible, written so long ago, is still relevant today. In Matthew 24:3, Jesus tells us, “Heaven and earth will pass away but My words shall not pass away.” Again in Isaiah 40:8, God assures us, “The grass withers, the flower fades, but the Word of God stands forever.” The Bible has stood the test of time. The words of wisdom found in Scriptures of old still hold true today. The truths and principles therein are as applicable to our lives as they were to the lives of Abraham, David and the Apostle Paul."]

Self-proving; and considered as a faith, ... a personal choice.

Quote: [" History has also proven God’s Word to be true."]

How?

Quote: ["As far as researchers have been able to determine, the events, people and places in the Bible are accurate. For example, when a debate arose many years ago over the book of Acts, the Roman historian Sherwin White wrote, “The facts authenticating the book of Acts are overwhelming. Any attempts to disprove its historicity even in matters of detail are absurd.” "]

So geography proves geography and historical persons prove historical persons. How does that 'prove' anything about 'god' (or 'gods')?

Quote: [" For example, some non-biblical accounts of creation border on the ridiculous, whereas the Bible is nowhere guilty of this."]

Genesis 1 is some of the worst nonsense I've ever read, in such a context. Please enlarge on this point, if it is of relevance.

Quote from a later post: ["And also Zeus, because Troy did exist?,So,my friend.You don't believe science then,the archeology is a part of science. They have the proof that they dug up in Israel."]

You're not a big fan of logic, are you? You keep repeating in post after post, that because geography proves geography this proves (what? .....my insert) on 'god'.

Besides you have avoided the issue of a false use of science as pointed out in my reference to shaded argument one, from your initial post.

Can we get to the 'god' approach in OP without irrelevant and useless 'proofs'?

Originally posted by venusstarlite
You,can read all faith articles on my site. But if you want proof,here I,can.My bible is proof and archeology in Israel is proof. It proves the bible right and there is many books on this to.

edit on 6-6-2011 by venusstarlite because: (no reason given)

Archeology only provides that these places appear to have existed. No one disputed that the Bible is a good source of "history" - but you have to consider it could be like a distant civilisation of ours finding the movie "Escape From New York" - they'd assume it was true - why else would our people go to so much trouble to document such a thing???

As for praying, you keep coming up with the words "Will of God"

Do you not question his will, not even in the slightest? God admits that he's jealous (of who?), to making mistakes, and to needing help. There are also numerous examples that he's not omnipresent, omnipotent. Right off the top of my head, "Cain, where is your brother?"

Day Two
======

Let's see what God does today.

I suspect Christians do not know what absolute truth is...They say their God is absolute truth, yet they say their God should not be tested out of fear (according to their interpretation a.k.a Camping Syndrome).

After this experiment is done, I will create another thread to show them that absolute truth is actually chance or uncertainty since uncertainty/chance remains the same no matter what constraints( and I am being general/generous here) are used to test it.

I know that TO SOME INDIVIDUALS, chance/uncertainty being absolute truth doesn't make sense...but it will ( I hope to whoever can accept the truth)

I will probably post it under science and tech... check out this curious fella's( confreak) thread at
www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by LiveEquation


You wrote:

["I know that TO SOME INDIVIDUALS, chance/uncertainty being absolute truth doesn't make sense...but it will ( I hope to whoever can accept the truth)"]

Since you brought it up yourself, just a short digression. Chaos, being totally random, is a respectable hypothetical candidate for non-cosmic 'reality'.

But then again chaos could have been a misunderstood fella, who only lacks the order from our cosmos, but instead has another order. This does in no way justify theistic claims though, except that Erewhon possibly exists.

Originally posted by Forevever
Archeology only provides that these places appear to have existed. No one disputed that the Bible is a good source of "history" - but you have to consider it could be like a distant civilisation of ours finding the movie "Escape From New York" - they'd assume it was true - why else would our people go to so much trouble to document such a thing???

in fact alot of archeology comes from the bible, it's where we get the word from in the first place. The search for historical accuracy and the locations of places described in the Bible led to the present practice that we know of today as "archeology"

Originally posted by bogomil

Originally posted by Lazarus Short
You're going to put God to the Test? That is absurd, at best. You have a critical unspoken, underlying assumption - that God has no interest, either way, in the crime rate. A little facepalm is in order here.

A 'god' with alleged footprints can be tested.

A 'god' without footprints is just one vague candidate amongst 3.500 options.

You're not suggesting that 'god' is to be evaluated on the basis of the rules postulating him from the start, are you?

I'm suggesting anything except that you should not put God to the Test. Proof will be forthcoming, and in fact, is already here, but not to those of you who do not really want to know...

Originally posted by Lazarus Short

Originally posted by bogomil

Originally posted by Lazarus Short
You're going to put God to the Test? That is absurd, at best. You have a critical unspoken, underlying assumption - that God has no interest, either way, in the crime rate. A little facepalm is in order here.

A 'god' with alleged footprints can be tested.

A 'god' without footprints is just one vague candidate amongst 3.500 options.

You're not suggesting that 'god' is to be evaluated on the basis of the rules postulating him from the start, are you?

I'm suggesting anything except that you should not put God to the Test. Proof will be forthcoming, and in fact, is already here, but not to those of you who do not really want to know...

edit on 7-6-2011 by Lazarus Short because: lah-de-dah

That's your subjective choice, as is your self-contained, self-proving circle-argumentation and your way of presenting it.

Many of us outside this rather small 'bubble' of yours, operate from much bigger and better validated 'bubbles', e.g. science/logic/objectivity, from where we DO ask and test ('bigger' does not include fantasies etc in this context).

But don't fear, very few here (if any) are suggesting to oppress christianity, no matter what 'answers' eventually are found. Non-theists usually only request, that christians take their egalitarian place together with everybody else, independent of faith.

Most religions has basic rule, human have free will. And "law" of nature in life that we deal everyday is something we see in life. Things interacted more complex that we can think, simple thing happen may couse or made by lots of things.

To put the test, must in condition that there is no free will or law of nature. But to test that will hard to find someone who willing to do it, cos it mean the tester have to died first just like a detective must go to a crime scene to have more proof.

In neutral context, if there is god, and in most religions they said god is kind, loving and merciful, so there is a chance if someone do the test he will forgive him/her.

And if there is no god, it will be only like go to sleep at night. Nothing will happen after we died. And life is only a long path of struggle that we search happiness now and them and treasured it when we find it even only for a short while. It might even better to died rather than to live with world condition like now.

Problem is this test only known by that person only and he/she cant tell the rest of us that still live.

So who want to do this test?