On being an "eccentric" Christian fundamentalist

Some people see the word "fundamentalist" as an insult of some kind. To me it is a badge of pride. I think I am more or less correct in describing myself as a fundamentalist because:

-I believe the Bible is the inerrant Word of God.
-I believe in the literal truth of bodily resurrection, Judgement Day, the Virgin Birth, and so on.
-I believe salvation is only possible through Christ (John 14:6) and that one must be Washed in the Blood, born again, and establish a personal relationship with Christ.

So this makes me a fundamentalist. But I don't fit the mold of what people think about fundamentalists, for the most part, because:

-I am an environmentalist.
-I do not hold the political views most of my co-religionsts do (i.e., Republican) -- I have what are perhaps more radical and unusual political beliefs: I believe government of the world should be turned over to young people, for example, and I'd like to see the FED/banking system dismantled.
-I tend to keep quiet about my faith, except in forums like this where it is specifically the topic, or in situations when I am specifically promoting it.
-I dress, act, and talk in a way that is outwardly more "secular" than "Christian" if you know what I mean.
-I am willing to entertain alternative (and sometimes very unsual) interpretations of Scripture. If you can provide an analysis that is rooted in scripture, I will be open to consideration of the logic, even if it seems bizzare to most people. I enjoy pushing hermaneutical boundries.

The thing is, some people will see my form of fundamentalism as "lukewarm" or flakey because it doesn't gell with the values of a lot of other fundamentalists and I can't bring myself to walk in socio-political lockstep with them. At the same time, a lot of people who might be more sympathetic to my eccentricities are put off by my firm and unyielding belief in the Word. It's a strange and sometimes lonely place to be.

Does anyone else see their faith as stong yet "eccentric" in some way that isolates you from other believers and/or secularists ? If so, how?

SnF

I have "crazy" views...

I am Christian and have a VERY strong faith...

but I believe god is a space alien

reply to post by EvolEric


I have found some texts confirming this!!! Obviously no 'proof' but these texts are incredible to read....even if only from a fictitious viewpoint (which I am certainly not viewing it from)

Kind of an oxymoron, isn't it? Since you're "eccentric" (which is not bad), you can't really be a Fundamentalist (which is a good thing not to be imo, but feel free to be it).

So, do you believe over 90% of the world (arbitrary number here) is going to burn for eternity in a pit of fire?

Fundamentalists are in err when they think their way is the finite way. My problem with that idea is that it's so easy to be a breeding cesspool of hate and intolerance (sorry for the strong words), because they take scripture so literally. You can't take a parable literally!

But since you're open, let me show you a different POV:

Argument: I think God's desire is that ALL men be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. Coming to the knowledge of the truth occurs in only one WAY - and that Way's Name is Jesus.

Rebuttal: This may be true for you but it may not be true for Jews, Hindus, or Buddhists for example. Even Christians do not agree on virtually every doctrine of the faith. We should understand the limitations concerning dogma and the letter of the law. After all, Jesus emphasized the spirit of the law rather than the letter. This is because it is really love - not religious dogma or rituals - that creates spirituality. Dogma can only help people come the path of spirituality; but the religious structure itself is not necessarily the way.

Jesus himself affirmed that love for God and love for your neighbors is the way to eternal life (Luke 10:25-28) John, the disciple who is claimed to know best the love of Jesus said, "Everyone who loves is born of God and knows God because God is love." (1 John 4:7-8) Peter had this to say about it: "Truly I perceive that God shows no partiality, but in every nation anyone who fears Him and does what is right is acceptable to Him." (Acts 10:34)

I am convinced that Christianity was never meant to be the personality cult it is today. I don't think Jesus was ego-centric when he said, "I am the way, the truth, the life. No one comes to the Father but by me." Like everything Jesus said we must often try to understand the deeper spiritual meaning behind the literal words.

It is evident the Bible mentions that God is love, life, and light. It states that this is true for the Jew as well as the Gentile. The central focus of almost every major world religion is how to attain at-one-ment with God - in the way that Jesus and Buddha did - for example. According to many religions it is love that is the central focus - love for God and love for others. So when Jesus says he is the way, the truth and the life, I interpret this to mean that Jesus shows people the way to heaven through example. He is the example. He is a pattern for which people can follow - unconditional love through self-sacrifice and self-denial.

Naturally, you're free to remain as you are, but don't ever judge or be intolerant of others because that's a direct contradiction to Jesus and being a Christian. Some fundamentalists do this and I'm baffled by it... cheers to you if you can hug even your worst enemy.

Originally posted by AdamsMurmur

So, do you believe over 90% of the world (arbitrary number here) is going to burn for eternity in a pit of fire?

Only God knows the number but I would hazard a guess that yes, the vast majority of mankind will go to Hell.

Thanks for your passage, I will think about it.

reply to post by Partygirl


fourwinds10.com...

Party Girl, I discovered this over the weekend....

Maybe have a read....it is very compelling.

Originally posted by Partygirl
Some people see the word "fundamentalist" as an insult of some kind. To me it is a badge of pride. I think I am more or less correct in describing myself as a fundamentalist because:

-I believe the Bible is the inerrant Word of God.
-I believe in the literal truth of bodily resurrection, Judgement Day, the Virgin Birth, and so on.
-I believe salvation is only possible through Christ (John 14:6) and that one must be Washed in the Blood, born again, and establish a personal relationship with Christ.

So this makes me a fundamentalist. But I don't fit the mold of what people think about fundamentalists, for the most part, because:

-I am an environmentalist.
-I do not hold the political views most of my co-religionsts do (i.e., Republican) -- I have what are perhaps more radical and unusual political beliefs: I believe government of the world should be turned over to young people, for example, and I'd like to see the FED/banking system dismantled.
-I tend to keep quiet about my faith, except in forums like this where it is specifically the topic, or in situations when I am specifically promoting it.
-I dress, act, and talk in a way that is outwardly more "secular" than "Christian" if you know what I mean.
-I am willing to entertain alternative (and sometimes very unsual) interpretations of Scripture. If you can provide an analysis that is rooted in scripture, I will be open to consideration of the logic, even if it seems bizzare to most people. I enjoy pushing hermaneutical boundries.

The thing is, some people will see my form of fundamentalism as "lukewarm" or flakey because it doesn't gell with the values of a lot of other fundamentalists and I can't bring myself to walk in socio-political lockstep with them. At the same time, a lot of people who might be more sympathetic to my eccentricities are put off by my firm and unyielding belief in the Word. It's a strange and sometimes lonely place to be.

Does anyone else see their faith as stong yet "eccentric" in some way that isolates you from other believers and/or secularists ? If so, how?

edit on 5-6-2011 by Partygirl because: (no reason given)

Yes, that's me, I think.. I am half fundamentalist and half Anglo-Catholic.
AngloCatholicism Wikipedia
It's an uncomfortable mix sometimes, especially as I am often called upon to define myself...
Vicky

reply to post by Partygirl


Imo the main reason for fundamentalism (from all ideologies) being generally impopular is, that fundamentalists very often try to impose their values on mankind; in various contexts from war and extra-parliamentary activities to invasive efforts of restricting truth/reality-seeking to a narrow set of options.

PS I'm also an environmentalist, but not of the film 'Avatar' type (which was also 'fundamentalism').

reply to post by bogomil


Hmmm...Interesting.
I thought you were being a bit of an athiest gadfly in one of the other threads, but I'm more impressed with this post, you touch on some interesting ideas.

I also sense by your ATS user name you are perhaps a bit more familar with some of the nuances of Christian history than you might want to let on..no?

So in response I shall say only that I am not at the moment involved in organized witnessing activities or the like, although I have been before. Of course, in this theology forum I feel free to let my Christian banner unfurl proudly as it were, but I try not to bring it up in other forums or parts of ATS...unless somebody gets in my face about it.

Thanks again for the comment.

Originally posted by Partygirl

Only God knows the number but I would hazard a guess that yes, the vast majority of mankind will go to Hell.

Your original self-serving post is trying to make you seem more reasonable than other fundies. Then you said that.
You failed.

Your sigline: People on the Internet are...Real People!

People in your RL are Real People too. Interesting that they just get written off; friends, family, neighbors, all of them. Ho hum, right? You got yours ("heaven"), they'll get theirs ("Hell"). You "unfurl proudly" your banner as you believe they will all burn. How is that?

And christians wonder why they get resistance? This is funny stuff.

You say that you are open to an alternative explanation on scriptures? www.bibletruths.com...
It puts to rest this 'eternal hell" nonsense and it uses scriptures to do it.

Originally posted by Partygirl
reply to post by bogomil

 

Hmmm...Interesting.
I thought you were being a bit of an athiest gadfly in one of the other threads, but I'm more impressed with this post, you touch on some interesting ideas.

I also sense by your ATS user name you are perhaps a bit more familar with some of the nuances of Christian history than you might want to let on..no?

So in response I shall say only that I am not at the moment involved in organized witnessing activities or the like, although I have been before. Of course, in this theology forum I feel free to let my Christian banner unfurl proudly as it were, but I try not to bring it up in other forums or parts of ATS...unless somebody gets in my face about it.

Thanks again for the comment.

Thanks for your obliging answer.

People often get that impression of me, because I have a sharp tongue and demands of precise positions and their (the positions') use.

Actually I am a metaphysicist/mystic and philosophical sceptic.

The name 'Bogomil' is an intricate joke; the original bogomils being a very pronounced group of sceptics concerning 'cosmic dynamics' (something similar to hinayana buddhism).

Your last paragraph in this post points to something often ignored: WHEN does an OFFERING of something (e.g. an ideology) pass into pushing it? An issue I've never seen seriously debated here, in spite of its importance.

(The film Avatar was 'pushing' imo, and a disgrace for environmentalism because of its propagandist level).

reply to post by Partygirl


You have the basics down pat.Have you ever given
any thought into doing research on the jewish roots
of our faith?
I did and I quit a mainstream,fundamental,baptist church.
I now attend services at a Messianic Synagogue.

reply to post by LHP666


There's probably a good reason why some deserve the lake of fire mister. Think about that.

You're loved for who you are party-girl.

Originally posted by etherical waterwave
reply to post by LHP666

 

There's probably a good reason why some deserve the lake of fire mister. Think about that.

Uh huh. So you're saying that "some" dont deserve it? And what's with this "probably" you wrote? Think about that.

What crime warrants eternal torture? Please, tell me. I want to know.
A torturer is nothing but a vile sick twisted monster. What does that make an eternal torturer?

I'm waiting for you or someone to say that this torturing is 'gods perfect justice'. You came very close by calling it "good reason", missy.

Some never learn and always have an excuse without conscience. Banning all conscience who never want to return to the natural state of mind. I'll refuel myself showing others the way. This I'll do by just being myself.

Originally posted by etherical waterwave
Some never learn and always have an excuse without conscience. Banning all conscience who never want to return to the natural state of mind. I'll refuel myself showing others the way. This I'll do by just being myself.

That made absolutely no sense at all. But at least it sounds very deep.

Now, about that eternal punishment in "hell" that the fundies hold so dear to their little black hearts.... What sayest thou? Remember, you replied to me first. Are you bailing out already?

I would like to thank my Christian brethern who have shown me support and kindness here and elsewhere on ATS.

I can see the athiest brigade has shown up...as well as the even more extreme Mr. "Left-hand path 666." Biased much?

Regarding hell, I won't quote scripture to nonbelievers as I have learned they throw up walls around their ears and hearts in the face of the Word. But to dissect the issue a little, Mr. LHP666 is putting words in my mouth by claiming I and other Christians think we are "better" than those who will burn in the Lake, or by thinking they somehow deserve it. This has nothing to do with it. None of us know or can know where we stand in the Lord's graces. It is blasphemous and impossible to try to determine this matter. All we can do is have faith, give ourselves to Christ, and try to learn and live in accordance with the will of the Lord.

Suppose I asked you, "do you thinkmost people will become millionaires in their lives?" You would answer (if you were rational and had common sense) that no, you didn't think this would be the case for most people. Now then, does this mean you "want them to be poor" or you "think they deserve it," or even that you think you have a better chance of striking it rich than the average person? Of course not. But the fact remains that most people are, in fact, poor rather than rich (myself included lol). See, its a force beyond your personal control that decides this. The same is true with many mysteries of the Lord, including the issue of the Lake of Fire.

reply to post by Partygirl


You wrote:

["Suppose I asked you, "do you thinkmost people will become millionaires in their lives?" You would answer (if you were rational and had common sense) that no, you didn't think this would be the case for most people. Now then, does this mean you "want them to be poor" or you "think they deserve it," or even that you think you have a better chance of striking it rich than the average person? Of course not. But the fact remains that most people are, in fact, poor rather than rich (myself included lol). See, its a force beyond your personal control that decides this. The same is true with many mysteries of the Lord, including the issue of the Lake of Fire."]

I hope, I can make this as in-offensive as possible. But an allegory is only an allegory, something ideology promoters often forget. An allegory does NOT have any intrinsic logical or similar qualities, which functions in tandem with the initial claim/argument.

An allegory is a way of illustrating special points, nothing more. And when allegories are taken so far 'out' as to become inductive reasoning categories (not the case here though), we have the almost impenetrable non-sense some preachers use. Impenetrable because it has no meaning; ANY way.

IF grace exists (a subjective and personal choice of having faith in it or not), the only thing it shares with the chances of being a millionaire, is that there are some unknown factors involved, some 'force beyond personal control'. To call anything 'unknown'/'or beyond personal control' for 'god' or some attribute ascribed to 'god', is the standard theist method of filling out knowledge gaps with speculations, doctrines or guesses.

You appeal to 'rationality'. The allegory here (and its use) doesn't add to rational reasoning.

Faith is faith; a legitimate personal choice for people wanting it. But it's NOT rational, logic or objective (but why should it aspire to be ...... rational etc. is not ALL of life).

reply to post by Partygirl


i believe hell is temporary and once we pay for our sins we move on..... this was the message i got when i had my accident... it is also mentioned in gnostic writings that hell is temporary.... but u want biblical references... this was hard because i think the christian agenda wants followers to be obedient and that this is our only shot before we are condemned for ETERNITY... think about it... if we are the apex of his creation and has nothing but unfathomable amount of love for us would we really be condemned for eternity? eternity to burn? only a sick psychopath would condemn a person they love so much to such pain and suffering for eternity.... one we pay we move on.... we are all on a journey and we all make mistakes.... any ways

... Revelation 20:13, “And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and HELL delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man ACCORDING to their works..”

we are judged accordingly not judged for eternity..

i believe life or our "breath of god" is energy and we call it our soul or what have you and according to our conservation of energy law.... energy cannot be created or destroyed...
and now the biblical ref...

Eph. 1:4.....According as he has chosen us in him BEFORE the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

and then the story of john the baptist being the reincarnation of elijah...

so i believe that we are reincarnated and learn what ever it is our souls have to learn and we either move on or pay for what we did and then we move on...

i was brought up as a christian but christianity never seemed to satisfied my thirst for the truth so i became an atheist for quite some time.... i think that atheism is a natural response to the just have faith statement shoved down their throats growing up... then one day something so amazing happens that they will believe... wether it is some personal miracle or in death

bottom line... religion is man made, however.... and Constantine put together the current biblical format in 325 AD and he was no saint... he picked and chose what was to go in the bible... before constantine early christians did believe in reincarnation just as Origen of Alexandria did... one of the old school theologians....

the bible is the truth and so is every other religious scripture... it's the cultural interpretations that hazes the truth

so under all the bs and propaganda there is a fundamental truth to all religions.... and the fundamental truth is all we need...

reply to post by 11azerus11


You wrote:

["i believe hell is temporary and once we pay for our sins we move on..... this was the message i got when i had my accident... it is also mentioned in gnostic writings that hell is temporary...."]

In a completely different context.

Quote: [" this was hard because i think the christian agenda wants followers to be obedient and that this is our only shot before we are condemned for ETERNITY... think about it... if we are the apex of his creation and has nothing but unfathomable amount of love for us would we really be condemned for eternity? eternity to burn? only a sick psychopath would condemn a person they love so much to such pain and suffering for eternity.... one we pay we move on.... we are all on a journey and we all make mistakes.... any ways"]

The 'official' explanation is: "Now see, what YOU made me do".

Quote: ["energy cannot be created or destroyed..."]

This 'law' is only applicable in a cosmic context.

Quote: [" bottom line... religion is man made, however.... and Constantine put together the current biblical format in 325 AD and he was no saint... he picked and chose what was to go in the bible... before constantine early christians did believe in reincarnation just as Origen of Alexandria did... one of the old school theologians.... "]

Some christians like to dispute this down to the last semi-colon, and after 10 years of that everybody is so tired or confused, that a new generation can start all over from square one.

Quote: ["so under all the bs and propaganda there is a fundamental truth to all religions...."]

Which is....?