To Frack or not to Frack....Please help!

so how can i post photos? i tried to just copy one on here but it will not allow it.

here is the email from TCEQ investigator:

Ms. Holt,
As discussed on phone, today, June 3, 2011 at 9: 30 am, Mr. Daniel Atambo and Tyrome (Aaron) Houston, Environmental Investigators ('Investigators'), of the Texas Commission on Environmental Quality (TCEQ), Dallas/Fort Worth (DFW) Region office went to conducted an Air Quality Complaint (AIR-CMPL) Investigation / GasFindIR (AIR GFIR) Investigation / Air Focused - Monitoring (FI-MON) Investigation around your residence. The investigators arrived outside your property at 10:28am. The investigators checked the air quality outside your property. A Toxic Vaporizer Analyzer (TVA) was utilized to check for VOCs. The TVA reading was none detect. A Qrae was used to detect concentrations of carbon monoxide (CO), Hydrogen Sulphide (H2S) and Oxygen (O2). The Qrae detected zero concentrations of CO and H2S. Oxygen was normal. A Jerome was utilized to monitor the presence of Hydrogen Sulphide (H2S). The Jerome did not detect any H2S. The wind direction was South East. A summa canister air quality sample was collected upwind of your property. The sample will be shipped to an Organic Laboratory in Austin for analysis. It takes 3-4 weeks to get the results back. The investigators suspected Kinder Morgan, Treatment LP as the possible source of the odor last night. The facility as well as Devon Energy well sites around your residence were monitored for air quality. The investigation continues. Once the investigation is concluded you will receive a letter from TCEQ on the findings of the investigation. Attached herewith are Odor logs, FIDO Charts and Affidavit.

Thank you


Environmental Investigator
Texas Commission on Environmental Quality
DFW Region 4
Air program





When i spoke with the investigator, i did ask why come out after the smell is gone? they should come when the smell is still present. He said it could be a leak and they will check everything. So i see in the results nothing was found. But the other samples they sent off.

Unfortunately, I have the same thing happening in my little community. Here is their website, I'm sure they wouldn't mind if you contacted them for some advice. huntervalleyprotectionalliance.com...

reply to post by just_julie


Thanks, I will definetly be checking that out.


here are a few pictures

i1187.photobucket.com...

i1187.photobucket.com...

i1187.photobucket.com...


I believe the pad is finished...The representative said the rig will be up around June 12. He did say that there would be trailer homes, all their matieral, etc. I also did ask him if the company would put in writing that there is no enviromental concern, no health concerns, no earthquakes, no damage to my foundation etc. etc. he said NO. I also asked for the MSDS sheets of their water/sand/chemical mix. He said I would never receive that. He said if i didn't accept the hotel stay(while they are drilling and fracking) and i pursued this, which he has seen many times, the gas company has the right to condemn our land that our house is on and take it to court and they will win anyways. He said i could sue them but it would never make it to court they would settle. I have read stories where someones home would be close to a well (800 to 2000) feet and properties depreciated from around 275,00 to just around 60,000. If you measure ours from the fence line it is about 170 feet, if you ask the representative he says over 200 ft. The representative told me all the info i asked him about is fake, fake, fake. He tries to tell me that he would have no qualms if this was his home, heck he even let his grandson play in a field with 10 wells on it. I told him that is different playing in one for an hour vs. living in front of one 24/7.

Well, methane or sulfur. A key is that if they're comparing to driving behind an 18 wheeler, then get a medical professional to explain at the meeting what happens to both adults and children after prolonged expossure to the chemicals of an 18 wheeler.

This has happened countless times here in KY where entire springs, streams, have been lost to coal companies. They can act dumb all they want, and if worse comes to worse, call upon the archenemy of ATS, and try to get your story into NATIONAL main stream media.

As well, be very meticulous regarding any damage to your property such as heat damage from the fireball, etc.
If you find such damage, you must FORCE the police, as you will need to call them since damage to personal property, accident or not, is a crime, not a CIVIL matter. . .at any rate, make sure a report is filed.

Also, find any county ordinance regarding sound/noise pollution. Most counties have an ordinance relevant to that. Consider sleep deprivation, and how THAT has affected your family.

Be clear, and never quit. Make a lot of "noise" against the company. . ..sometimes they may offer double your property value for your land. If you don't want to sell, well, then, begin to bring out to the public AND the company all the true and validated disaster-event of BP.

Coming to ATS with this issue is a great start. . .but you might not want to telly anyone you got any advice here. The media will be sure to use that against you.

"IF" everything you say is true, and thats the proverbial "if my aunt had a penis she'd be my uncle if", and your coming to a internet forum that is one third disinfo agents/AI bots from project Earnest Voice and one third teenagers who are years from realizing they don't know # about # then you might as well have them put their wells right on top of your house, for there is no hope for you. You claim you didn't bother to even call a lawyer? Well that sounds intelligent, a free phone call to find out if there is any legal means to pursue vs. inquiring the likes of ATS. And nothing against ATS or any one of its REAL members, or anyone of the people who have flammable tap water, I know that crap is almost everywhere, this thread however is a 90% probability of a means to distract everyone away from something else.

reply to post by browneyedgirl8


Is that the "usual" method for sealing one of those? I'm not sure myself. . .does anyone know?

That's really close. When it comes time for rigging up and drilling it will be very loud. You should contact Devon and get them to build a tall wall on the edge of the pad site facing your property to reduce sound and light pollution.


Oilfield workers will absolutely trash the surrounding area too. No joke.

reply to post by browneyedgirl8


I would echo the recommendation to watch Gasland, as a starting point as to what they are really up to and how much damage they are actually doing.

If you Facebook at all, here are a couple of links to help get you in the know.
Gasland FB page
Josh Fox's FB page
Fighting Fracking FB page

Another one that may be of use to you specifically is Frackville, Texas, a newer community so an excellent place to start an education on the subject.

From the Fighting Fracking page you can link up to a ton of other resources, Frack Facts, Fishermen Against Fracking, What the Frack?, and so on.

Here's the link to the Gasland Website itself - Gaslandthemovie

I don't know where to start...

I've been working in the gas field business in the south DFW area as a water
hauler for six years now.

I can only tell you what I know, but I hope it helps.

First, ease your worry about fracking. To date there have been no claims
of water contamination in the area due to fracking. I have many friends
and family in this area, some with their own water wells, and to date the
drinking water tests as pure as any in the country. I'm not saying contamination
won't happen, I'm saying so far...so good.

Now, about your situation, and the MOST important questions.

Are you the home and land owner? Do you have mineral rights?
If you have mineral rights you are due compensation and you need
to get a lawyer with experience in the field.

If not, you may still be due some compensation. I have seen these
drilling companies go to great length to appease some homeowners--
with sound barriers placed around rigs or generators to cut down
on noise, work curfew to daylight hours, lease roads watered down or
paved to reduce dust, etc.

What you can expect is a drilling rig onsite for a few weeks to a few months.
After that, fracking from a few weeks to a couple of months. During the fracking
trucks will rumble day and night. And then, after the site is cleared and the well
is in place, trucks will come to remove the waste water at an average rate of
two to five times a day, up to, (but rarely), ten to fifteen times a day. The life of a
well is said to be about ten to fifteen years.

My advice (if you don't have mineral rights) are to see what concessions you can
get from the drilling company for your inconvenience inre: dust or noise or
any other reasonable inconvenience you may experience. You might be surprised
to find that they would be willing to pay for car washes due to dust, (I've heard of
some weird stuff. And I am sometimes amazed at the lengths these companies
companies will go to--to appease homeowners.)

Anyway, I'll check back to see if you have anymore questions.

As for the Gasland film, it is a tad sensational about fracking. I am MUCH MORE
concerned about the delivery of waste water to the various disposals in the area.
Some of theses disposals pump well over a hundred loads of water a day into the
ground at near-fracking pressure FOR YEARS. There are literally lakes of wastewater
two miles underground. This is the elephant in the room that no one seems to
care about. Albeit, a well disguised elephant...still an elephant none-the-less.
This massive amount of wastewater lies closer to the water table than does the
high pressure water and sand pumped downhole to encourage gas production
during the fracking process...but nobody ever mentions that part of it...

Oh well.

After looking at your pictures and seeing your proximity to the well...

GET A LAWYER

Your are unusually near the drilling pad, and you need someone to negotiate
for you. I can't imagine that you would not be inline for some amount of compensation.
Perhaps even an offer to buy your property.

Look around for anyone in similar circumstances as yours I'm sure you can find many
folks in your area, and ask them if you can *pull-their-ear* (that's Tex-bonics for talk too, for you
non-Texans). Find out about lawyers and compensation and the like from them. And good luck
to you.

Strange thing is, there is a good chance I will service this well at some point in the future.
I will promise you I will try to be quiet, but that is the only consolation I can offer.

Good luck once more and...

GET A LAWYER.

As rival just said, get a lawyer.

Being that close, they should buy you out for a nice piece of change.

reply to post by rival

First, ease your worry about fracking. To date there have been no claims of water contamination in the area due to fracking. I have many friends and family in this area, some with their own water wells, and to date the drinking water tests as pure as any in the country. I'm not saying contamination won't happen, I'm saying so far...so good.

First, I would not ease any worry about fracking, you have even raised the wastewater issue leeching into the water table.

As far as water contamination claims:
From Austin, TX Jan 21,2011
Texas Landowners Sue Oil Companies for Water Comtamination During Hydraulic Fracking
That's from the Law Firm Newswire, and while the lawsuits are "alleged" at the moment, it will lead to discovery (or justification for the Oil Companies), so I would expect to see some more findings on the contamination issue in the near future.

Two recently filed lawsuits in Texas argue that hydraulic fracturing in the Barnett Shale has caused significant groundwater contamination. One suit has been filed pertaining to property in Tarrant County and a similar suit has been filed covering property in Denton County. The Tarrant County suit names Chesapeake Energy and Encana Oil & Gas as Defendants. Devon Energy is named as a Defendant in the Denton County suit. Both the Denton County lawsuit and the Tarrant County lawsuit are pending before U.S. District Judge Sam Lindsay in Dallas.Two recently filed lawsuits in Texas argue that hydraulic fracturing in the Barnett Shale has caused significant groundwater contamination. One suit has been filed pertaining to property in Tarrant County and a similar suit has been filed covering property in Denton County. The Tarrant County suit names Chesapeake Energy and Encana Oil & Gas as Defendants. Devon Energy is named as a Defendant in the Denton County suit. Both the Denton County lawsuit and the Tarrant County lawsuit are pending before U.S. District Judge Sam Lindsay in Dallas.

As for the Gasland film, it is a tad sensational about fracking.

Maybe it is, maybe it's not, but if it is more sensational, then that would solely be for the purpose of getting the subject into the mainstream, which it has done, personally I don't think it's too sensational at all.

The Oil/Energy companies have even resorted to "thugs" in the western part of our state, while making offers to purchase the land or rights to land from residents, those that refused to sell were visited by thugs, they threatened and in some cases did physically assault individuals. There were no direct links to the companies, but it doesn't take a stretch to go from "Sell us your land." "No", late night visit 2 days later where an assault happens and you are told "Reconsider your options."

Outside of those instances, that the local news covered only once, but now cannot find ANYTHING about the story, we now have them threatening to use "Eminent Domain" to remove landowners.

I understand you work for them, and can respect the need to make a living, but me, I would quit and work for a more ethical industry (I have practised what I preach, many times before). When you follow the money to the top, it leads you to the same policy-bending, lobbying, narcissistic wealth mongers, T Boone Pickens, Halliburton, Koch Brothers, and so on.

Even without the damage created by the chemicals, to both the groundwater and the air you breathe, the trucks themselves destroy the roads due to the massive use, that's just what we need, further wear on an already overtaxed infrastructure.

All that is necessary for evil to triumph, is for good men to do nothing.

You might be surprised to find that they would be willing to pay for car washes due to dust, (I've heard of some weird stuff. And I am sometimes amazed at the lengths these companies companies will go to--to appease homeowners.)

Why do you think that is?

Is it normal for a company to voluntarily bend to these sorts of demands?

Only when they are trying to keep things quiet in my experience, maybe it's all just to avoid "bad publicity" but it seems they do go through extensive lengths to keep anything from reaching a court, where actual evidence would be heard.

Here's a quote from you news link...

"...Fracking is the process in which millions of gallons of water are mixed with chemicals and other materials and are injected under extremely high pressure into the wellbore. This fractures the rock and allows channels to develop through which the gas can migrate to the wellbore. "

Here's my point. "Fracking" to me, is inconsequential. The term is used as a bogey-man,
made infamous by unflattering films about fracking.

Let me explain. A company drills a well and then fracs the well, sending one to three hundred
truckloads of water, sand, chemicals and soaps downhole at
extremely high pressure. This is sent downhole into the shale strata, usually about
a mile and a half underground. This fractures the shale and pressurizes it. They open the hole
and up comes the water and gas. Problem (to me) is the AMOUNT of wastewater returning
to the surface. Most of the fracking water comes up immediately with twenty or thirty loads
of water a day being pulled from the well and disposed of into one of the many waste water disposals
in the immediate area. After most of this sandy water comes back up, the well continues to
produce wastewater for YEARS. MUCH MUCH more water comes up than goes down...do you see
my point?

This water is taken to a DISPOSAL. A disposal is a well drilled for that purpose. It essentially
"fracs" itself, that is it makes space for the wastewater by utilizing pressure to fracture
the surrounding strata. The pumps used for this purpose cost 90k and are permanent. These
wastewater disposals handle 150 truckloads a day--compared to a ONE-WELL fracking process
which AT most will take 400 trucks of water...getting my drift yet?

In a week a disposal will handle a thousand truckloads. One frac-job is only half that amount,
BUT the disposal will operate FOR YEARS, putting a million truckloads of water downhole over
a three year span, not a million gallons, once.

So, to me, fracking is inconsequential, and pales in comparison.

As to the Gasland films and the lawsuits and such...

The gas coming from the faucet in the named film is not a consequence of fracking. It's hyperbole
and misleading. If you have gas coming out of a faucet that is a BIG DEAL, but fracing didn't
cause it. What caused it is a broken well sleeve somewhere downhole near the surface, at
some point after the well began producing gas. You could ban all fracking and that would still
happen.

Once again, there is an elephant in the room that nobody seems to be concerned with.

I feel for the homeowner's plight, they are up against a powerful entity that is tough to beat.
Attempting to legally stop the frac process is virtually impossible, a fool's errand without
a class action suit.

I was trying to ease their concerns and recommend what they could do to make their
situation better.

Worry without the ability to affect is without merit. Do what you can C'est la vie.

reply to post by browneyedgirl8

Interesting story I hope you get to the bottom of it and keep us updated

reply to post by browneyedgirl8

Interesting story I hope you get to the bottom of it and keep us updated

reply to post by rival

After most of this sandy water comes back up, the well continues to produce wastewater for YEARS. MUCH MUCH more water comes up than goes down...do you see my point?

The pumps used for this purpose cost 90k and are permanent. These wastewater disposals handle 150 truckloads a day--compared to a ONE-WELL fracking process which AT most will take 400 trucks of water...getting my drift yet?

I honestly am not sure that I am, a little confused I guess. You are pointing out the ill effects of the wastewater generated as a result of Hydraulic Fracturing, the way I'm reading you is that the wastewater issue is a bigger problem to you, and I would agree with you on that, correct me if I'm wrong.

The wastewater wells themselves in other fracked communities have been shown to also leech into the surrounding environment, due to the poor planning in creating the wells, just makes me think Erin Brockovich.

In our city, they have an ongoing lead removal project from a lead company a hundred years ago, these EPA funded removal projects and studies have been constant now for 2 decades, so I understand the long term effects from environmental damage.

So, to me, fracking is inconsequential, and pales in comparison.

Again, I agree, but you do understand that there would not be a wastewater issue if the Hydraulic Fracturing didn't take place to begin with right?

I know the actual act of fracking isn't the culprit, so to speak, but it's the resultant issues that arise as a result of the fracking, wastewater, air pollution, chemical leeching, and very probably (albeit not conclusively proven) new fault lines they are creating. (Guy, Ar's new Guy Faultline in the oh so stable New Madrid Fault Zone or Blackpool in the UK)

The gas coming from the faucet in the named film is not a consequence of fracking. It's hyperbole and misleading. If you have gas coming out of a faucet that is a BIG DEAL, but fracing didn't cause it. What caused it is a broken well sleeve somewhere downhole near the surface, at some point after the well began producing gas. You could ban all fracking and that would still happen.

Again, correct me if I'm wrong here, but the broken well sleeve mentioned or hypothesized, wouldn't have existed if the area hadn't been fracked, therefore I would extrapolate that it was indeed as a result of fracking, no fracking no broken sleeve from the gas well.

Once again, there is an elephant in the room that nobody seems to be concerned with.

The wastewater elephant? And if so, isn't that wastewater a direct result of the shale being subjected to hydraulic fracturing (aka Fracking)?

I think I do get your point, but mine is simply that if the fracking did not take place to begin with then the resultant damage would not exist either.

I feel for the homeowner's plight, they are up against a powerful entity that is tough to beat. Attempting to legally stop the frac process is virtually impossible, a fool's errand without a class action suit.

And I as well, they are most definitely up against some of the most powerful entities that exist in our world today, the Oil/Energy Cartel who sacrifice our world on the alter of their mighty god, money.

They have little choice but to petition to the courts and abide by the law, which is not designed to help us "We the People" any longer, a class action lawsuit may be the only remedy, but without getting really good and ticked off does one have the genuine fire necessary to amass the other defendants in order to proceed to class action status.

I would throw out a ton of other suggestions, but they would not be abiding the law and would definitely be considered "eco-terrorism" and wildly against T&C, so in order to try and maintain sanity in an insane world I have to suggest sticking to following the broken justice system.

And to the OP, BE CAREFUL, they did resort to physical violence against those that did not "play ball" in the western part of my state, which will impact our country's ability to produce food since they are now destroying our farmlands for their pocket books, as well.

reply to post by Hijaqd


You did get my point.

To me personally, the wastewater problem is much bigger threat than the
fracking of a single well.

And perhaps it is cart-in-front-of-the-horse for me to complain about wastewater when
the eradication of fracking would probably solve the wastewater problem. But I'm a realist,
When you can't even get the frac companies to disclose by law the chemicals they are
pumping in the ground, stopping the entire process is a moot point.

There just isn't enough substantial evidence that fracturing causes enough environmental damage
to get an injunction. Not yet anyway. It's like the global warming issue, in that sadly, a wait and see
approach is what we are dealing with.

In this day-in-age you need a body count to get something done. That's a semi-quote from the guy
who flew his plane into the Austin IRS office....sad but true

reply to post by browneyedgirl8

I am gathering some documents for you. I live in Upstate NY and we are currently having the very same debate right now. There are things that the gas and oil companies don't seem to want people to know about. The technology was buried in the 80's there is a way to produce electricity without burning anything. The process is similar to this type of drilling but you don't use chemicals to frack and you don't extract any form of petroleum. Think of taking a water glass heating it up and pour cold water into it. The term people need to read about is HDR geothermal some may know it as Hydrothermal. It seems that the first site I have found was built in 1954 and financed by the government and they really did want to bring it into the mainstream, I have the reports. Big oil seem to spend a lot of cash to marginalize and demonize anyone who speaks of it. I will PM you when I get it together, I just have to put it all together. The odor you smell is Hydrogen Sulfide and there are remedy's for it, the oil company's should be required to install the scrubbers especially since it's common knowledge that any properly engineered well site would have had the issue addressed from the start. A great place to start reading is at the OSTI web site. We payed for the research you just have to look for it. www.osti.gov...
Here is a 2007 report by MIT web.mit.edu...

reply to post by browneyedgirl8

The rep is also making about $200,000 a year to lie to you. There is no honor amongst thieves or businesses. It's a lesson I have learned over the years

reply to post by rival


Rival, I have a question that I have had a heck of a problem getting an answer for from both sides of the debate. What is the average temp of the effluent?