The Pentagon was hit on 9/11 it wasn't staged.

Originally posted by Sauron
Why don�t you go research and show me that my claim the Bush Cabal did let 911 happen to further there own personal gains, is wrong?

Where are the times that the aircraft were launched at? It is not like the aircraft that were scrambled could instantly transport themselves to the site of the attack.

Your own evidence does little to prove that it was allowed to happen. If you really wanted to show that it was allowed to happen, then you should be able to show proof of an executive order to stand down, or executive attempts to prevent interceptors from taking off. No where do you show that.

My point is that any jets scrambled could not do anything with out Rummy�s OK, first,

physics911.org...
Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld is personally responsible for issuing intercept orders
This amazing order came from S.A. Fry (Vice Admiral, US Navy and Director, Joint Staff) so it appears to me that responsibility for the US armed forces "Failure to Respond" rests directly with Fry for issuing this instruction, as well as with Donald Rumsfeld for failing to execute his responsibility to issue orders in a timely fashion.
The relevant documents are on the Web at:
911research.wtc7.net...
www.dtic.mil...
The time lines are all over the net

Originally posted by Sauron
My point is that any jets scrambled could not do anything with out Rummy�s OK.

Do you truly believe that if the pilots could have made it in time they would have sat by and did nothing while awaiting orders?

Part of the reason that people are selected to be trained as pilots is that they demonstrate the ability to make decisions on their own, without awaiting approval. Otherwise we would have robots doing that job already.

Bottom line, they were not withing weapons firing range by the time the airplanes were making their attacks.

Do you truly believe that if the pilots could have made it in time they would have sat by and did nothing while awaiting orders?

I think they could have made it if they went subsonic, but I'm not a pilot.

Take the initiative and take out the jet, save thousands, and you�re a hero,
Or take out the jet and kill all on board, and you a murderer, LOL I guess it would be up to the mass media, pentagon to decide e.g. there spin on it

Originally posted by Sauron
Explain your self, same info two webs sites, one you think is good and one you don�t, you can�t prove I or mulder or anyone else for that matter wrong, you have to lower your self to the position of calling website who provide the info propagandist.
Why don�t you go research and show me that my claim the Bush Cabal did let 911 happen to further there own personal gains, is wrong?
I dare you You can�t,
[edit on 9-8-2004 by Sauron]

Playing Delta Force? Read the whole thing again, little boy. They were in the MIDDLE OF AN EXCERCISE!!!! Do you know what a military exercise is? Obviously not. What you didn't seem to want to mention is that the F-15's DID respond, but too late. They were on an EXCERCISE!!! If they hadn't been in the middle of it, there would have been no aircraft on alert and no aircrews to fly them, PERIOD! Read the whole article and you will see the fallacy of your post, and why omitting important information makes you look so foolish when it is brought to the forfront.

As far as trying to prove your absolutely stupid claim that President Bush let 911 happen to further his own personal gains wrong, what you have to understand is that it is IMPOSSIBLE TO PROVE A NEGATIVE!!! There is NO proof to support that bag of trash, therefore it cannot be disproved. It's like saying, "prove to me that donkeys don't fly"....well, since a donkey has NEVER flown of its own accord, I cannot prove that they don't. However, if you believe that they DO, there should be evidence to that fact, such as video of one flying, or the flying jackass itself. Get the picture?

Now, why don't you go back to playing Pokemon on your Playstation...your sixth grade classes should be starting soon and you want to get as much gaming time in as possible....

Originally posted by Sauron

I think they could have made it if they went subsonic, but I'm not a pilot.

You really don't have to tell anyone that you aren't a pilot...you prove that with every post. Subsonic is LESS than the speed of sound...SUPERSONIC is above it...The F-15 two ship WAS supersonic the entire way in afterburner...and they still didn't and couldn't have made it...even though they were in EXCERCISE mode at the time....

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
I kind of feel sorry for all the mulders, Merovingians, and ECKs of the world. Especially the ones on this site where the moto is to deny ignorance. Maybe we should change it to deny stupidity.


I went through alot of this thread, but maybe I missed it. If no plane crashed into the Pentagon....what happened to the plane? Were the passengers taken to some secret location? That flight was the one with all the kids on board were they promised candy or something if they'd play along and pretended like they died a horrible death and never spoke to their families again?

Like most people around here, we either witnessed it or know people who did. I fortunately wasn't near there at the time but I know plenty of people who saw it. I'd take their word or you alls 100% of the time. They have no reason to lie about it. lol, it's funny actually.
Your websites created from people who more than likely don't even live near the affected areas and have their own political agendas vs. eyewitness accounts.

No matter how much you want it to be, there is no conspiricy. A plane was hijacked and crashed into the pentagon. If there was something we could have done about it we would have. Talk to anyone in this area who was downtown (or anywhere in this area) at the time, they will tell you VERY soon after the Pentagon was hit Jets were everywhere, so it wasn't like they were sitting back, they just didn't get here in time.

We've been through all this before. This is ridiculous.
Remember when Clinton was in office and a small plane crashed into the White House? Was that purposely allowed? Or is it possible that stuff like that can happen without NORAD the FAA or fighter jets being able to do anything about it.

Go back to your pasture in graze in the lush fields of naivety, foolishness and ignorance.
Why are you even on ATS? I will do you all a favour and will start up a new discussion board. We will call it 'ATS 2' which conveniently stands for 'All Totally Stupid'
Move over bud this is where you get off.

Originally posted by The Merovingian

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
I kind of feel sorry for all the mulders, Merovingians, and ECKs of the world. Especially the ones on this site where the moto is to deny ignorance. Maybe we should change it to deny stupidity.


I went through alot of this thread, but maybe I missed it. If no plane crashed into the Pentagon....what happened to the plane? Were the passengers taken to some secret location? That flight was the one with all the kids on board were they promised candy or something if they'd play along and pretended like they died a horrible death and never spoke to their families again?

Like most people around here, we either witnessed it or know people who did. I fortunately wasn't near there at the time but I know plenty of people who saw it. I'd take their word or you alls 100% of the time. They have no reason to lie about it. lol, it's funny actually.
Your websites created from people who more than likely don't even live near the affected areas and have their own political agendas vs. eyewitness accounts.

No matter how much you want it to be, there is no conspiricy. A plane was hijacked and crashed into the pentagon. If there was something we could have done about it we would have. Talk to anyone in this area who was downtown (or anywhere in this area) at the time, they will tell you VERY soon after the Pentagon was hit Jets were everywhere, so it wasn't like they were sitting back, they just didn't get here in time.

We've been through all this before. This is ridiculous.
Remember when Clinton was in office and a small plane crashed into the White House? Was that purposely allowed? Or is it possible that stuff like that can happen without NORAD the FAA or fighter jets being able to do anything about it.

Go back to your pasture in graze in the lush fields of naivety, foolishness and ignorance.
Why are you even on ATS? I will do you all a favour and will start up a new discussion board. We will call it 'ATS 2' which conveniently stands for 'All Totally Stupid'
Move over bud this is where you get off.

The Merovingian,
Instead of blasting here, why don't you try to answer their questions? Where are the people and children that are KNOWN to have been on the flight?
Where are they now?
Why have their families never have heard of them yet?
For you to blast this with nothing less than your words and belittling opinion is worst than saying that Elvis lives. At least there are Elvis sightings on a daily basis.
Or are you saying that there never was a plane?
There were no passengers, No crews etc. That the families that were shown to the world were either a bunch of liars or they were actors?
Please help me understand your feelings as I fo one am interested. My uncle was one of the people who worked at the Pentagon at the time who is no longer with us. It will be a great surprise to my family that there was no aircraft crashing into the building and that it was all a hoax. I am sure my aunt would want to know where her husban has been the last three years!

Kenshiro

You are misinterpreting my remarks.
I am not saying that 'nothing' crashed into the pentagon. I am saying that the official story of a 757 is horsh*t. What happened to the original plane, remains to be proven but my theory is that it was somehow diverted or destroyed at another location. Sure, go ahead....we are all crackpots aren't we? But when you ask the hard questions and reason within your own mind, there are simply too many variables and inconsistencies in their story. It doesn't add up.

I will debate this back and forth with whoever is up to the challenge. So far all I have read is a dispute about the scrambling of intercepts. That is part of it but there is a lot more.

You can blame Bush and his goons and the people that really rule the USA for the loss of life on that day, not my clear thinking

Originally posted by The Merovingian

Go back to your pasture in graze in the lush fields of naivety, foolishness and ignorance.
Why are you even on ATS? I will do you all a favour and will start up a new discussion board. We will call it 'ATS 2' which conveniently stands for 'All Totally Stupid'
Move over bud this is where you get off.

And what are you here for, to prove that the sparkly effect in your avatar is your brain short-circuiting?

If all you are here to do is trash people without adding anything to the thread, therefore proving your own ignorance, then get off the carousel yourself, little boy....

Go play Pokemon on the Playstation with sauron...

Originally posted by The Merovingian
Go back to your pasture in graze in the lush fields of naivety, foolishness and ignorance.
Why are you even on ATS? I will do you all a favour and will start up a new discussion board. We will call it 'ATS 2' which conveniently stands for 'All Totally Stupid'
Move over bud this is where you get off.

Funny, you quoted my post so I assume you were talking to me, yet you addressed absolutely nothing in my post. Further proving that you bring nothing to the table. Your foolish conjectures and conspiricies are no match for the truth. Sorry bud.

Originally posted by The Merovingian
Kenshiro

You are misinterpreting my remarks.
I am not saying that 'nothing' crashed into the pentagon. I am saying that the official story of a 757 is horsh*t. What happened to the original plane, remains to be proven but my theory is that it was somehow diverted or destroyed at another location. Sure, go ahead....we are all crackpots aren't we? But when you ask the hard questions and reason within your own mind, there are simply too many variables and inconsistencies in their story. It doesn't add up.

I will debate this back and forth with whoever is up to the challenge. So far all I have read is a dispute about the scrambling of intercepts. That is part of it but there is a lot more.

You can blame Bush and his goons and the people that really rule the USA for the loss of life on that day, not my clear thinking

Again, I need to ask where are the people? The Passengers and crew?
What about the radar images?
I trust the US goverment less than I can throw it's collective weight but To believe that this goverment that I trust so little is so STUPID as to stoop that low and to fake the hit on the Pentagon causing so much death and destruction, is a little too much for even me to believe. To kill US citizens in such a blatant and destructive way is below even the goverments intelligence.
I have looked at the photgraphic evidence that is presented earlier in this post and I do not see where there is conclucive proof of your theory.

I have read the posts that the Iraq war is for Oil, that it was for some alien device etc. but the information that has been presented in each theory has been very slim almost on the scale of David Icke.

I may have missed it but what is your theory as to why the goverment as a whole or some secret black ops unit would do something as stupid as this.
If it was to enrage the us citizenry, then yes it did, for a while, but as is the norm for the "average US citizen" they have loss interest in the war that this "hoax" has created. The US citizens, are no longer interested in the war and are now starting to demand the return of our troops.
The goverments of the world have turned against us (except for Britain and israel). The presidents hopes of re-election is quickly going down the tubes.
If this whole deal is a hoax, don't you think one of the many think tanks that the goverment has would have seen this scenario and would have advised the goverment from doing such a idiotic move?
Then to add to this, can you even remotely imagine what would happen if this was true, and what would happen if (and when) the US citizens found out?
Yes I believe that there is something behind many of the conspiracy theories as the gov' has presented ( when it has not totaly denied it) very weak explainations to debunk many of the conspiracy theories. Going on this belief do you really believe that the goverment would even be capable of pulling off the hoax? Think about it...... Look at the debarcle of the "rescue mission" to rescue the american hostages in Iran back in the 80's. If they could not pull that off using their "top troops with the very best equipment" how could they pull of the hoax of crashing an loaded aircraft into the Pentagon and then (as you proposed) actually diverting this aircraft (note while hiding it from every radar site on the eastern seaboard) and then either destroying the aircraft at another location (yes the gov't is cold-blooded enough to do this part) but then to either keep all the troops that participated in such an elaborate hoax from never ever leaking the info out? Or maybe they did not destroy the aircraft as you also eluded to, then again the question comes around as to where are the passengers and flight crew that were known to be on the aircraft? How is the gov't ensuring that they have no communication with absolutely anybody but themselves.
I am sorry, until these questions are addressed, at least to me, your theory holds very very little water. Please note, I am not saying anything or anybody is a crackpot. If you have the theoey then good, now as with any theory, there needs to be a proof that covers all the different angles, close all the loops etc.
Think about it, even the evolution theory (or for that matter the creationism theory) are not proven for just such reasons as I stated above. Both theories have holes in them and thus both cause much discussion but no real solid fact.
If you can clarify, these "holes" for me, I would appreciate it.

Merv,
You are just unreal.

I saw the radar tapes from that day. There was nothing that flew away from the Pentagon after that plane hit. If we were to beleive your assertation that the plane was diverted then it would have shown itself there. Unless you are implying that the US gov't had a cloaking device that they used in this case.

However, I guess you will do the same thing you have always done when directly asked for proof. You will accuse us all for being idiotic fools who fail to comprehend that the US gov't is actually against the people, not for them.

Let me leave you with this parting thought. The victims were ID'd by DNA testing in a vast majority of the cases. How do you account for that?

Originally posted by COOL HAND
Merv,
You are just unreal.

I saw the radar tapes from that day. There was nothing that flew away from the Pentagon after that plane hit. If we were to beleive your assertation that the plane was diverted then it would have shown itself there. Unless you are implying that the US gov't had a cloaking device that they used in this case.

However, I guess you will do the same thing you have always done when directly asked for proof. You will accuse us all for being idiotic fools who fail to comprehend that the US gov't is actually against the people, not for them.

Let me leave you with this parting thought. The victims were ID'd by DNA testing in a vast majority of the cases. How do you account for that?

Let me ask you and Affermative Reaction something. If y'all don't beleive in any of this stuff than why are you on this board posting? To prove everyone else that they're wrong no matter what they say? I'm mean it's your right to be posting but what makes you think you're 100% right? Because you and AFF Reaction are in the military? I'll tell you what go here www.911independentcommission.org... These are the question the 9/11 families asked the commision to answer. If you can answer a few of the question on here I'll be impressed. And don't give me the excuse "I can't because of national security reasons." I'm tired of hearing that from the Administration.

[edit on 9-8-2004 by mrmulder]

[edit on 9-8-2004 by mrmulder]

Originally posted by COOL HAND

There is too much evidence that this attack was just as the news reported it. A terrorist act.

Further speculation is a waste of time.

A round of KOOL AID for everyone - on Cool Hand.

Keep up the good work, man. Just understand one thing. Kidding aside. You've made your role here quite obvious.

btw: Do you know the guys working PLAN DAISY?

[edit on 19-09-2003 by EastCoastKid]

Originally posted by mrmulder

Originally posted by COOL HAND
Merv,
You are just unreal.

I saw the radar tapes from that day. There was nothing that flew away from the Pentagon after that plane hit. If we were to beleive your assertation that the plane was diverted then it would have shown itself there. Unless you are implying that the US gov't had a cloaking device that they used in this case.

However, I guess you will do the same thing you have always done when directly asked for proof. You will accuse us all for being idiotic fools who fail to comprehend that the US gov't is actually against the people, not for them.

Let me leave you with this parting thought. The victims were ID'd by DNA testing in a vast majority of the cases. How do you account for that?

Let me ask you and Affermative Reaction something. If y'all don't beleive in any of this stuff than why are you on this board posting? To prove everyone else that they're wrong no matter what they say. I'm mean it's your right to be posting but what makes you think you're 100% right? Because you and AFF Reaction are in the military? I'll tell you what go here www.911independentcommission.org... These are the question the 9/11 families asked the commision to answer. If you can answer a few of the question on here I'll be impressed. And don't give me the excuse "I can't because of national security reasons." I'm tired of hearing that from the Administration.

[edit on 9-8-2004 by mrmulder]

Mrmulder,
I will ask you the same questions I posed earlier Look at the thread above.
Can you explain or answer any of the points that I brought up?
Yes, the questions from the families were not answered satifactorily by a long shot. But I must say that do you realy and truely believe that our goverment is
1) smart enough to pull off a hoax of this magnitude?
2) There were "live feeds" showing the radar screens, where is the signature of the plane that was diverted?
3) Where is the radar signature of the craft that is supposed to have crashed into the pentagon?
4) Where are the passengers and crew now? Live or dead?
5) If the passengers and aircraft were destroyed at another location, where are the reports of strange anomolies (explosions flashing lights sounds etc.)
6) Even with the Kent State debacle, which only killed a few, there were many National guards that participated that spoke up to the press and everyone else that would listen. Do you think that after all the anger and pain that the US went through in the advent of the events of 9/11 that NO ONE either military or civilians have comeout and made statements to the contrary to the supposed events?
7) don't you think that the military think tanks would have not advised against such a hoax? I mean look at the world picture today, many of our prior allies are now against us, the american peoples attitude towards the goverment and GW bush has fallen greatly. In fact the only one that is still smelling like a rose at this point is Rudolph W. Giuliani . don't you think that the think tanks would have forseen this?

I am sorry, I believe that our goverment is in no way smart enough nor coordinated enough to pull off a hoax of this magnitude.
Please understand, if you have some kind of proof or theories that can answer all of these holes, I am more than willing to hear them out BUT please, no more rehtoric. Try responding to the questions instead of avoiding/ignoring them

Originally posted by Kenshiro

Originally posted by mrmulder

Originally posted by COOL HAND
Merv,
You are just unreal.

I saw the radar tapes from that day. There was nothing that flew away from the Pentagon after that plane hit. If we were to beleive your assertation that the plane was diverted then it would have shown itself there. Unless you are implying that the US gov't had a cloaking device that they used in this case.

However, I guess you will do the same thing you have always done when directly asked for proof. You will accuse us all for being idiotic fools who fail to comprehend that the US gov't is actually against the people, not for them.

Let me leave you with this parting thought. The victims were ID'd by DNA testing in a vast majority of the cases. How do you account for that?

Let me ask you and Affermative Reaction something. If y'all don't beleive in any of this stuff than why are you on this board posting? To prove everyone else that they're wrong no matter what they say. I'm mean it's your right to be posting but what makes you think you're 100% right? Because you and AFF Reaction are in the military? I'll tell you what go here www.911independentcommission.org... These are the question the 9/11 families asked the commision to answer. If you can answer a few of the question on here I'll be impressed. And don't give me the excuse "I can't because of national security reasons." I'm tired of hearing that from the Administration.

[edit on 9-8-2004 by mrmulder]

Mrmulder,
I will ask you the same questions I posed earlier Look at the thread above.
Can you explain or answer any of the points that I brought up?
Yes, the questions from the families were not answered satifactorily by a long shot. But I must say that do you realy and truely believe that our goverment is
1) smart enough to pull off a hoax of this magnitude?
Yes I do

2) There were "live feeds" showing the radar screens, where is the signature of the plane that was diverted?
I'm not questioninig that

3) Where is the radar signature of the craft that is supposed to have crashed into the pentagon?
Now that I don't know

4) Where are the passengers and crew now? Live or dead?
I'm sure they're dead

5) If the passengers and aircraft were destroyed at another location, where are the reports of strange anomolies (explosions flashing lights sounds etc.)
I never said I believe that a plane didn't hit the Pentagon. I don't know. There are two many questions I would still like to see answered by the Pentagon if I were a reporter.

6) Even with the Kent State debacle, which only killed a few, there were many National guards that participated that spoke up to the press and everyone else that would listen. Do you think that after all the anger and pain that the US went through in the advent of the events of 9/11 that NO ONE either military or civilians have comeout and made statements to the contrary to the supposed events?
I regret to say that I'm not familiar with the Kent State debacle. So I cannot fully answer that question at this time.

7) don't you think that the military think tanks would have not advised against such a hoax? I mean look at the world picture today, many of our prior allies are now against us, the american peoples attitude towards the goverment and GW bush has fallen greatly. In fact the only one that is still smelling like a rose at this point is Rudolph W. Giuliani . don't you think that the think tanks would have forseen this?
Not if they weren't told or told to keep their mouths shut. There are whistleblowers out there that are coming forth with information that is not being released to the mainstream press. I also know that other countries told us this would happen and we did nothing to prepare for it.

I am sorry, I believe that our goverment is in no way smart enough nor coordinated enough to pull off a hoax of this magnitude.
Please understand, if you have some kind of proof or theories that can answer all of these holes, I am more than willing to hear them out BUT please, no more rehtoric. Try responding to the questions instead of avoiding/ignoring them

All I can tell you is I've been researching 9/11 for over a year. I've been looking at both sides of the issue and my conclusion is there are still many questions that need answering.

[edit on 9-8-2004 by mrmulder]

mrmulder, here is a link on what occured at Kent State in 1970
Kent State "America Kills it's children"
Agreed, there are many questions that still today needs to be addressed, but I do not think that the gov't could have / would have pulled off such a stupid act. mNow they may have instigated it but not performed the act themselves.

[edit on 9-8-2004 by Kenshiro]

Originally posted by Kenshiro
mrmulder, here is a link on what occured at Kent State in 1970
Kent State "America Kills it's children"
Agreed, there are many questions that still today needs to be addressed, but I do not think that the gov't could have / would have pulled off such a stupid act. mNow they may have instigated it but not performed the act themselves.

[edit on 9-8-2004 by Kenshiro]

Oh, I'm not saying they performed the act themselves. I can't prove that but they could've stopped it before it happened. We were given forewarning by many other countries. Why didn't we act to protect our major landmarks before 9/11?

My apologies when you asked this:

1) smart enough to pull off a hoax of this magnitude?
I don't think it was a hoax. I just think we allowed it to happen.

[edit on 9-8-2004 by mrmulder]

Originally posted by mrmulder

Originally posted by Kenshiro
mrmulder, here is a link on what occured at Kent State in 1970
Kent State "America Kills it's children"
Agreed, there are many questions that still today needs to be addressed, but I do not think that the gov't could have / would have pulled off such a stupid act. mNow they may have instigated it but not performed the act themselves.

[edit on 9-8-2004 by Kenshiro]

Oh, I'm not saying they performed the act themselves. I can't prove that but they could've stopped it before it happened. We were given forewarning by many other countries. Why didn't we act to protect our major landmarks before 9/11?

Now That is where I can agree with you.