Hay Festival 2011: ex-CIA man claims Barack Obama 'doesn't have a clue'

Hay Festival 2011: ex-CIA man claims Barack Obama 'doesn't have a clue'

www.telegraph.co .uk

David Cameron and Barack Obama ''don't have a clue'' about dealing with the war on terror, a former senior member of the CIA has claimed.

'American politicians, and I'm afraid listening to Mr Cameron this week, there's not a clue about what's going down in the western world,'' he told the festival.

''They can't cope with the fact that it's nothing to do with the way we live. It doesn't have anything to do with elections or democracy or liberty.

He added: ''The American relationship with Israel, in my mind, is a useless and unnecessary relationship.

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The speaker being Michael Scheuer, a name I expect familiar to many in the USA, although far from that here in the UK; I've seen the name and vaguely recall reading something. The reported speech was very direct:

They can't cope with the fact that it's nothing to do with the way we live. It doesn't have anything to do with elections or democracy or liberty.

We are being attacked in the west and we will continue to be attacked in the west as long as we are in Afghanistan, as long as we support the Israelis, as long as we protect the Saudi police state.

Responding to a question:

We are the ones that are arranging the cultural war against them. What we will see as al Qaida evolves is that the next generation is better educated, combat experienced and probably much crueller.

Then:

The American relationship with Israel, in my mind, is a useless and unnecessary relationship. As long as we are playing a role we are the recruiting sergeant for the people that are going to kill us.

I was particularly drawn to the future threat:

...What we will see as al Qaida evolves is that the next generation is better educated, combat experienced and probably much crueller.
Personally I disagree with him on the impact of US foreign policy on the motivation for AQ. It is a simple answer for a complex set of issues.

Are we the very cause of our own troubles?

www.telegraph.co .uk
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reply to post by RUSSO


Even if Saudi reforms and Israel and the various Palestinians find a workable peace agreement, we will have at least two generations of potential terrorists who will seek revenge for our occupation of Afghanistan (justified) and Iraq.

reply to post by RUSSO


Of course they dont have a clue. Like Noam Chomsky said, you dont even make it into the upper echelons of many professions unless you are the most deeply indoctrinated. The best sales people are those who believe what they are selling.

www.telegraph.co.uk...

''American politicians, and I'm afraid listening to Mr Cameron this week, there's not a clue about what's going down in the western world,'' he told the festival.

''They can't cope with the fact that it's nothing to do with the way we live. It doesn't have anything to do with elections or democracy or liberty.

Even to say its our "foreign policy" is to gloss over the driving economic forces which dictate that foreign policy. We have problems in the region because powerful economic forces, (groups/individuals/corporations) are influencing our government to use our military and intelligence resources in a way that is harmful for the majority of the people in that region. And they dont like it. Sure, we are making some people there very rich. Unjustly. But the majority of the people who should be benefiting from their nations oil and mineral wealth are getting raped by said economic forces and the puppet leaders they support in the region.

If we want "terrorism" to stop, we need to stop enabling unjust economic rape in the developing world. Its that easy. And no one has to have their junk groped to make the world safer.

Originally posted by RUSSO

He added: ''The American relationship with Israel, in my mind, is a useless and unnecessary relationship.

Not only useless and unnecessary, but ultimately for the USA, and for American citizens in particular, it is a relationship that will prove to be extremely dangerous and deadly.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander

If we want "terrorism" to stop, we need to stop enabling unjust economic rape in the developing world. Its that easy. And no one has to have their junk groped to make the world safer.

Another thing, maybe will be the US stop preaching at Arab leaders to be more like us and also stop blindly supporting Israel. So governments of states like Israel and Saudi Arabia come to realize that they both have some issues in common that they need to address to move forward to greater stability.

So are you saying that this ex CIA guy is implying that we will no longer be threatened by the Muslim world if we kick Israel to the curb? That sounds like the stand Neville Chamberlain would have taken. I have no love for Israel and really couldn't care less what happens to it, but even if we abandoned it, I think we would still face hostility from radicals in the Muslim world.

In fact, if our policy changed with regard to Israel, with the hope of reducing the threat from radical Muslims, I think it would have the opposite effect.
We would simply be viewed as weak.

Wow.

None of you seem to want to even recognize the role that Islamic Jihad has played in the last 1,400 years of history in the Middle East, North Africa, Eastern Europe, Western China, and beyond.

Hell, you don't even accept the existence of Jihad. You will never understand what is going on in the muslim world if you deny Jihad.

reply to post by Sparky63


As a component of our foreign policy the US/Israel relationship is one that would be more beneficial if it were a neutral position rather than a "relationship"... But changes in that regard now, are not going to help a great deal, as long as the US is involved in operations in that region of the world.

ANY actions the Israelis take against any enemies will always be seen as actions by the US, that is where the danger lies, and always has... In some aspects we are a bigger, and easier target for the enemies of Israel.

It is also an entirely exploitable relationship that can be used for blame and justification for large scale "terrorist" attacks, blamed on terrorists, but covertly perpetrated by other enemies of the west.

Originally posted by Fractured.Facade

Originally posted by RUSSO

He added: ''The American relationship with Israel, in my mind, is a useless and unnecessary relationship.

Not only useless and unnecessary, but ultimately for the USA, and for American citizens in particular, it is a relationship that will prove to be extremely dangerous and deadly.

Useless because it is dangerous. What goods this "love affair" with Israel bring to US?

He is absolutely correct in my view. We've become an arrogant and warring nation. The idiocy of it all drives me crazy. Imagine how you might be shaped if a foreign power came in univited and destroyed at will whatever and whoever it wanted? You become an absolute blood enemy of that entity and for goo reason. Think of all the anger being bred in our country by our militarized local police as they barge in homes unannounced and masked. Now multiply that 1000 times AND imagine you have zero means of redress after the fact. At least we supposedly have the courts in this country an we can sue cops for wrongful action (if you are lucy enough to prove it). Yet, our foolish and utterly irrational foreign policy does not seem to acknowlegde that these things ARE the sperm to the egg of "terrorism." We are our own worst enemy.

Originally posted by Sparky63

In fact, if our policy changed with regard to Israel, with the hope of reducing the threat from radical Muslims, I think it would have the opposite effect.
We would simply be viewed as weak.

I wouldnt do it "in hope of reducing threat." Thats a pretty selfish and self centered way of looking at the world imho. I would change our policy "because its the right thing to do." I dont think thats weak. Thats being willing to say "we were wrong, and we are going to stop now," and then dealing with whatever natural consequences we had already incurred as a result of our former more selfish actions.

I personally dont think we are being attacked because they want to attack us. I didnt see 9-11 that way at all. (And I know some people believe it is a set up, I respect your view, I just dont share it. ) To me, their choice of targets didnt look as much a viscous assault as a desperate attempt to get the everyday people of the US to wake up to what our economic policy, (World Trade Center) or military, (Pentagon) and our political leaders (White House) were doing to their people. I dont think they want to attack us when we are weak. I think they just really, really want us to stop raping them. And while I dont think they would love us all right away, I personally think the average citizen in the middle east would be happy to just move on and have a life without war if only we would let them.

The simple version for those who may fail to understand...

If you are a US citizen, whether you like it or not, you are also an Israeli citizen.

In the hearts and minds of all who are enemies of Israel.. we are one and the same!

reply to post by Fractured.Facade


I really do not understand why the USA insists to link his image to Israel.

Bad marketing.

But I think the money speaks louder in this case.

Originally posted by IllusionsaregranderI personally think the average citizen in the middle east would be happy to just move on and have a life without war if only we would let them.

I would agree with you that the average citizen wants a life without war. It is not the average citizen that is the problem. It is the leaders, mainly religious and secular to a lesser extent, who need war and confrontation to continue to exert their power & influence.
I have about 200 Muslim employees. They want the same things I do. Peace, happiness, security, and the means to provide for our families.
Take the religious leaders out of the picture and you would see the problems dissolve.

Originally posted by RUSSO

But I think the money speaks louder in this case.

There is absolutely no financial benefit for the US in having a relationship with Israel.

In fact that relationship costs the American taxpayers billions annually.

Originally posted by Fractured.Facade

Originally posted by RUSSO

But I think the money speaks louder in this case.

There is absolutely no financial benefit for the US in having a relationship with Israel.

In fact that relationship costs the American taxpayers billions annually.

I seached about what you said and makes sense.

cost of israel

So why this? USA decided to be an authentic altruistic?

Originally posted by Sparky63

Take the religious leaders out of the picture and you would see the problems dissolve.

Ditto for our economic leaders. Money is the true God in the west, take the people who worship money above all things out of the equation, and you would see the problems dissolve. Including a lot of the religious fanaticism. That kind of religious nuttery tends to thrive in the soil of economic strife and civil unrest. At home and abroad.

reply to post by RUSSO


Israel would be unable to exist, or to even sustain itself economically if it wasn't for those billions in annual aid packages, both those on the record and the billions in secret aid for their defenses.

The total investment in Israel to date would be a staggering figure, one that would piss off a lot of Americans, so it doesn't get much coverage here, and for good reason.

I suppose a lot of it is the effective lobbying in Washington, over several decades by the Israelis, did you see Netanyahu's recent speech to a joint session of the US congress??

He seemed to be more of a US statesman than an Israeli leader.

In the end, we do it, because many have been convinced that we have to, it is the right thing to do, we cannot allow another holocaust, never again?

So as budgets for social security and other programs are cut at home, and more and more Americans find themselves doing without benefits that were once available, they can take comfort in knowing that billions are being sent to Israel annually to support them, so their sacrifices are not in vein.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


As far as the west in concerned you also have to factor in the religious leaders who still consider Israel to occupy a special place in God's eyes. For them, allegiance to Israel is on par with allegiance to God. These religious leaders still exert a measure of power over politicians on the left & right side of the aisle.
Just mention the idea of cutting Israel loose and the argument won't focus on foreign policy but on religious dogma.

These religious leaders will do all they can to continue the relationship the US has with Israel. But their influence is waning. I think Israel's days as a close & protected ally are coming to an end.