Where's the scientific evidence that matter exists?

I'm curious to look this evidence over because I haven't found any to date. All that can be said is that everything is waves of probability that act like particles when observed(actually it doesn't even act like a particle because we can't pin down what we call subatomic particles so I use the term "particle" loosely). There isn't any evidence that matter has an objective existence. If this evidence exists, I would like to see it. If it doesn't exists, then what's the basis for materialism?

Originally posted by Matrix Rising
I'm curious to look this evidence over because I haven't found any to date. All that can be said is that everything is waves of probability that act like particles when observed(actually it doesn't even act like a particle because we can't pin down what we call subatomic particles so I use the term "particle" loosely). There isn't any evidence that matter has an objective existence. If this evidence exists, I would like to see it. If it doesn't exists, then what's the basis for materialism?

I would say that the fact you could even post this ..is evidence that matter exists

Of course matter doesn't exist.

I read a very interesting book a loong time ago, The Holographic Universe, by Michael Talbot.

I'd be surprised to find anyone who hasn't read it, but this concept isn't a new one.

Where's the scientific evidence that you exist?

Have you ever considered the possibility that you might not exist, or do you just take it as self evident?

Originally posted by CN1018
Of course matter doesn't exist.

I read a very interesting book a loong time ago, The Holographic Universe, by Michael Talbot.

I'd be surprised to find anyone who hasn't read it, but this concept isn't a new one.

Could you please explain to me how matter doesn't exist..yet..you are real enough to read this post,and respond to it..using tools made of matter..

c'mon .....have a little logic.

I don't know about any scientific evidence but I know an at-home experiment you can do.
Slap yourself in the face. Now ask yourself 3 things:
1) Was there a sound?
2) Did you see your hand hit yourself in the face?
3) Did you feel it ?

If you answered yes to all three, matter exists.

If your not talking about dark matter i'm pretty sure the periodic table covers allot. Matter has many definitions, but the most common is that it is any substance which has mass and occupies space. All physical objects are composed of matter, in the form of atoms, which are in turn composed of protons, neutrons, and electrons. Not sure what type of evidence your requesting but the proof is every where?? well thats my 2cents hope that helped.

reply to post by gabby2011



What? Nobody has mentioned vibrational states of frequencies yet?

But does that sound to new age-ish" Ok, forget it. (Continue believing that a rock is a rock (when it may be a crock.)

reply to post by Aliensun

What? Nobody has mentioned vibrational states of frequencies yet? But does that sound to new age-ish" Ok, forget it. (Continue believing that a rock is a rock (when it may be a crock.)

Perhaps you should be asking yourself what matter actually is. But then, definitions are so un-New Age, aren’t they?

Sometimes you don't need proof. Sometimes proof is simply in the beholding.

you are here, that should be enough to proove that matter exists.

Originally posted by Matrix Rising
I'm curious to look this evidence over because I haven't found any to date. All that can be said is that everything is waves of probability that act like particles when observed(actually it doesn't even act like a particle because we can't pin down what we call subatomic particles so I use the term "particle" loosely). There isn't any evidence that matter has an objective existence. If this evidence exists, I would like to see it. If it doesn't exists, then what's the basis for materialism?

The basis for scientific materialism (the existence of matter as something primary) is the same as for any other religion:
Belief without question.
The individual ego is fear and thus
it must create a diversion to mask this fear. Belief is an attempt to make oneself immune from
fear but in reality it creates the fear.

While it is possible to know how things behave or work,no one
knows what anything is. This includes matter,energy,space or time.
Since no one knows what anything is the Universe may be nothing
more or less than Gods Dream or Consciousness.This thought
is too frightening for most people to consider.

Adi Da pointed this out in his Teaching. The proper attitude
toward reality is Divine Ignorance, not false knowing.

I prefer to think of matter as being the definition of existence.

ie. If something isn't composed from any of the elements, then what/where/when is it?

Then again, do waves exist? Or are they an effect within?

PTX

reply to post by Planet teleX

Contemporary theoretical physics tends to regard matter as a string, loop, knot or braid in spacetime. That takes care of the waves question, but any honest theoretical physicist will admit that the answer is almost more mysterious than the question, because it leads us beyond the realm of what can be comprehended by the human mind. What the hell is a braid in spacetime?

When we have inadequate mental cognates for the entity being described, description fails.

This does not mean matter has no existence. Even if we posit, as I suspect the OP wishes to do, that all entities are purely mental (rather than merely holding, uncontroversially, that all entities have a mental aspect, either epiphenomenal or integral to them), then matter must have that mental aspect, otherwise we couldn’t be talking about it. The scientific evidence that matter exists (as a mental entity) consists in the fact that we are doing so.

Personally, though, I tend to refute that kind of mentalist nonsense the way Dr. Johnson did: by kicking something hard.

This thread reminds me of the minister that talked about my wife's ex-husband's father during his funeral who was a renown physiological neurochemist and he wanted to enlighten us to a bit of his humor.

He continued to tell us a short story of a British man in Paris flying home and after the stewardess (incidentally stewardess is the longest English word typed by a single hand on the keyboard), sorry, but the stewardess asked the polite English man if he would like a cup of tea, the man then answered that he thinks not–and POOF!, he vanished!

If scientific theory evidence is the very thing you need to verify what it is, you also understand it is just a theory don't you? But it is the best process to verify repeatable outcomes of what we project to occur, like if that brick fell on my head from that roof, it would really actually really hurt! Therefore, it is. (as far as I'm concerned).

reply to post by Matrix Rising


Matter exist cosmically to the observer.

I have been saying this a lot lately.........

Reality exist as a construct of the mind.

Take it or leave it its a basic truth that fits all formats.

Its not even holographic. Thats just the only way to explain it within the bounds of our language.

reply to post by RRokkyy


Adi whoever should be telling people that their idea of reality is what we design it to be within our mind ( the dream as it is so called exist within our imagination). Mind having nothing to do with body.

The problems we face as a species are the problems we face within ourselves. We are aging cosmically and becoming self aware. I think of it as adolescence, we must learn our ego and become aware of it in order to accept and experience it for what it is.

The illusion is not self.

The ego is you.

When you can look in the eyes of the devil and see yourself, you have found what is known as the truth.

When you can close your eyes and see the universe, you have found a diamond in the dirt.

When you see the person next to you distracting you from your heart, the essence of your being, and know this distraction is here as a part of yourself, you have found the truth.

A seemingly closed system, that isn't exactly so closed..?

mat·ter/ˈmatər/
Noun: Physical substance in general, as distinct from mind and spirit; (in physics) that which occupies space and possesses rest mass, esp. as distinct from energy. - webster's dictionary

If it exists in space-time, holds mass and therefore affects gravity, it therefore is matter.
As far as humans can understand, anyway. We do not actually touch things, but an illusion of touch is generated by tiny electromagnetic repulsions between electron bonds between objects of mass, aka, matter.

Matter has 4 known states. Solid, Liquid, Gas, and Plasma. examples include rocks, water, air, and fire*.
Matter also, according to the ancient Greco-Roman beliefs, has 4 states of being. Hot, Cold, Dry, and Wet.

"Earth" is Dry and Cold, "Water" is Wet and Cold, "Air" is Hot and Wet, and "Fire" is Dry and Hot.

We do not know if there is or is not a potential 5th state of matter or a 5th state of being. in my personal opinion, Energy could be a 5th state of matter, if only Plasma did not already cover most excited atomic bond types (this would include electricity, which is excited electrons in a steady stream, or for a layman, "organized lightning")

to claim that matter does not exist is folly when you are surrounded by it, interact with it on a constant basis, and generally consume and breathe it in order to live.

*= put in the "plasma" category because fire is common enough in nature that it can be considered a plasma-analogue. a True Plasma is pure ionized gas.

Originally posted by 90percent10less
I don't know about any scientific evidence but I know an at-home experiment you can do.
Slap yourself in the face. Now ask yourself 3 things:
1) Was there a sound?
2) Did you see your hand hit yourself in the face?
3) Did you feel it ?

If you answered yes to all three, matter exists.

I just did this test....

My results:

Not only does matter exists.... It hurts!

reply to post by SireFurious


All these definitions and words represent is one thing,

You own personal observations of what it is within your field of vision, vision not being eyes, vision being experience.

You can't say without absolution that any of that exist outside of your subjective observable universe.

The only thing that you can say that exist absolutely is you. Everything else is an interpretation of what you think you see by what your brain thinks it is experiencing.

To put it lightly, you science types don't have a clue what your talking about. You don't even understand your own science.