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A solutions thread, contributions welcomed

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posted on Apr, 28 2011 @ 09:59 PM
Dear All, I have been commenting on threads for sometime, reading for longer. Some of the information and theories served up are immense, awesome, drivel and at times absolutely mind boggling. All in all, the community is diverse, unique, intelligent, dumb and probably reflective of society on a global scale. (no offense intended, for at times we play all those roles... yes including dumb).

What I see time and time again though is separation, segregation and division, whether by sex, race, religion, political leanings, pro/against anything, and this isn't just on ATS. In fact I would say from where I am standing, I see the focal points continually being placed on points of division, rather than points of unity. When we discuss stocking up on food, supplies, ammo - it's all being discussed on small individual scales, with the potential for neighbour vs neighbour warfare. Surely we are better when we work together? Surely we are stronger in unity?

Too often the ego or arrogance of belonging or attaching oneself to such a group, only enhances the effect of separation from all. This separation then isolates individuals from a group, weakening the effect they can have. Strong leadership brings people together and unites divisions into a common cause/point of focus. To a degree this concept is really behind the union movement, however at times this has twisted the concept of what a union represents and as is typical of many humans, the power associated with position corrupts the intention behind the foundation which provided such person power in the first place.

At times I have felt powerless to do anything. I have felt as though my own personal influence is insignificant and that really, I can't do a damn thing to improve the world on any level. I am but one person, frustrated, up tight and confused about the state of global, national, regional and local affairs. But yet history is littered with the names of individuals who somehow brought unity in the masses and focused their collective energies into a single cause - rightly or wrongly, achieving far more than that individual could have on their own.

Humanity can lead itself

I am a strong advocate and believer in the leading of self. I believe in coming together we are stronger than by isolating ourselves from each other. Division only serves to create greater division. And so I wanted to create a thread where-by I can express ideas to help solve some of our issues on a large or small scale, and encourage fellow ATS members to do the same. Because whilst the problems exist, whilst the lies continue, whilst the average person pays more for everything, our leading elite have no answers, they have no solutions, no direction and perhaps no hope. So perhaps, it's time, we as peoples of the world, started taking back responsibility for our own wellbeing, and the wellbeing of each other.

Big solutions create big problems

Big corporate and the fans of globalization like big solutions to problems, as it's easier to make big profits. The answer to food is massive industrial food farming, whether it be in plant form or animal. Big numbers, higher yields, concentrated in fewer hands, with increased returns. Electricity and Water supplies aren't much different.

In simple terms this might make sense, but in reality, when we put more and more responsibility on less people to create food/water/energy for the masses we create an unstable system that is always one disaster away from collapse.

small solutions can solve big problems

Just imagine if everyone in your neighbourhood collectively started growing or cultivating gardens to produce the fruit, veg, salads, eggs and chickens. Imagine then if collectively the output was shared so that people got an even share in each of the types of food mentioned. Collectively working together would produce high quality foods, at a fraction of the price, whilst maybe even improving community relationships.

This approach would allow for different gardens to focus on different seasonal produce, rather than simply trying to squeeze as much food out of one garden. It would allow for ample rest of soil to replenish after seasonal growth, and if one garden is resting ready for the next season, that household can assist in another garden elsewhere.

Collectively if food or green waste be collected and converted to compost, nutrients could be returned to the soils at the right times reducing waste output and helping to improve soil rather than the global degradation we have seen in recent years. This would also then reduce emissions from landfill sites to a degree.

This micro approach to food production won't create all foods we need, but it reduces pressure on the system, improves social and community interaction, brings people together, produces healthy cost effective foods, or free foods, and free's up money for other means (stockpiling gold and silver... just kidding).

Imagine then if each house was able to collect it's own water from rain, and on some level recycle waste water? Be able to create your own energy (electric) from solar and wind. All of a sudden you have a community in some ways developing their own independence from big corporate/government support. The benefit isn't just cost, its a level of protection against ecological or economic disaster.

As a concept if this method was applied to every community across the world, and be able to create a surplus of energy/water/food - then we have groups of communities taking responsibility for some of their own needs. We remove the reliance from big industry/corporations and empower ourselves. Yes a change in lifestyle would need to accommodate such ideals, BUT lack of action now is only going to result in massive lifestyle change down the track if action isn't done now.

So that's one solution to food, water and energy issues - admittedly it's not going to provide all the needs of the people in such community, but it removes the dependence on big solutions. The carbon footprint is probably less, and improved community aspects of working collectively would no doubt decrease crime as a side effect.

So come on people, give us some solutions to some of world issues, whether big, small, corporate or micro/community managed.

Note to add: Without going into the global warming debate, some things I think we can all agree on. Pollution from big industry, cars, transportation of goods adds toxic fumes to the air, resulting in increased asthma and probably a whole other myriad of health issues. Reducing the need for massive transportation should improve health of people, even on a small scale this can have a massive impact. Of course the need for big fertilizers and chemical farming would diminish massively, improving water pollution, and of course hazardous effects of chemicals on the body.

The reduction in transportation fuels on a large scale would reduce the cost of fuel as a by-product of the supply/demand market we are enslaved too - thereby freeing up a little more funds for the everyday person.
edit on 28-4-2011 by moleskin because: forgot about environmental aspect!
edit on 28-4-2011 by moleskin because: forgot to finish the first edit!

posted on Apr, 28 2011 @ 10:15 PM

edit on 28-4-2011 by infolurker because: (no reason given)

posted on Apr, 28 2011 @ 10:25 PM

In keeping with my opening post, I wanted to extend the concept a little bit more to include shareholders and the roles they play.

The community aspects I mentioned before or co-operative's when applied to businesses would probably identify shareholders or stakeholders as the 2 following groups:

Those with a product to sell (employees)
Those needing to purchase a product (customers)

This Dependant relationship serves both sides well. If higher profits are received, cost of produce could either be reduced thus benefiting loyal customers (improving their bank balance) or staff would see an increase in wages (improving their bank balance) or a combination of the two (either way someone is getting more cash in the wallets).

The result being increased cash in their back pocket allows both stakeholders to invest that money in other products, reducing their own debts or simply having a healthier bank balance - which could lead to improved health care, better education etc etc.

Now lets take this model and add shareholders as we know them today:

Those with a product to sell (employees)
Those who neither buy nor sell the product (shareholders)
Those needing to purchase a product (customers)

The introduction of shareholders, with a board of directors generally elected by shareholders has one main focus; improved efficiency, increased profits and lower costs.

Staff generally get no say or very little say in the direction of the company, and customers probably even less. Bringing shareholders into the equation with the focus of increased profits (financial returns) then results in:

Higher cost of goods/services
Lower wages, with more work being done by less people

Shareholders may invest some cash, strike it lucky and reap the returns for years to come, with no risk should the company hit troubled times. CEO's and execs constantly talk about shareholder dividends, and profits for their shareholders, and increased money for their shareholders etc etc...

But this focus on shareholders for big businesses erodes the focus on decent sustainable businesses, reduces wages, pushes pressure to reduce costs, therefore financially weakening the whole chain. This concept in turn eventually turns to outsourcing, sending services or the production/growth of product to cheaper areas of the world. Thus turning the system from a micro managed one, into a global one, with higher risks in the face of disaster.

So not much of a solution here, but more a concept of returning to co-operative business practices which supports the whole chain of production, and benefits those who are truly a part of the business, rather than those who want quick gains or returns on finances.

posted on Apr, 28 2011 @ 10:43 PM

Originally posted by moleskin

Surely we are stronger in unity?


The European Knight required about 50 peasants to support them.

The Asian equivalent to a Knight required about 300.

The reason for this is that rice farming is
much more labor intensive.


In a medieval village anyone of those 50 people could expect to see, meet, and maybe even talk to their local lord.

In the Asian system, village elders were the ears, and if you met your local lord you were already in trouble and were probably going to be punished.

This explains the completely different philosophies that grew up in the two different worlds.


Now consider modern America.

Have you ever met your Mayor?
What is the ratio of citizens to mayor these days. Not what it was when these towns and cities were founded. The population has exploded, but we still have one mayor?

Trying to speak to our local Mayor is like one person at a Rolling Stones concert trying to ask Mic a question. What are they going to do, stop the show and make tens of thousands of people wait for you to ask some personal question. Most people self elect not to impose on all the other people.

It is in this sense that the west is already under an eastern system.


The reality of our world is that we used to know our local representatives, and could speak to them.

But where there used to be a chain of representation all the way up to the state, and then federal levels, now we have only the figure head at the top. The evidence is everywhere. People are only interested in turning out to vote for the presidential elections. Local reps don't interest us.

For most of us if we actually get a word from the governor it's a stay of execution.

Conclusion: we are already under a Chinese system now.


Speculative [color=gold]solution

If 50 families teamed up and paid a monthly fee, they could afford a high powered legal firm and keep them on retainer. Then any problem, like a ticket, or a zoning ordinance, could be handled effectively and quickly.

The law as a tool to serve us, and having a voice in the conduct of this law would become a reality again. Even better the politicians would be very interested in our opinions. Cause a group of 50 self organized families is a voting block that is worth its weight in gold.

David Grouchy

posted on Apr, 28 2011 @ 10:59 PM
reply to post by davidgrouchy

Nice points David, and in some of those point I think you highlighted some of the problems right away; Peasants supported knights as an example. When are peasants going to start supporting peasants?

This need to worship, be subservient and unable to fully govern ourselves has only aided in presenting the problems we face globally. Whilst some countries aren't affected by it at the moment, it's simply a domino effect and sooner or later, the same problems will hit everyone.

posted on May, 4 2011 @ 01:52 AM
I guess no-one cares much for solutions? That would end the drama, and no drama = no entertainment for the masses...

Oh well, we tried

posted on Aug, 22 2011 @ 08:07 PM
reply to post by moleskin

Thanks for the invite to your thread. In principal, I agree with pretty much all of it. In fact, the idea of communities coming together and sharing their knowledge, labor, farm equipment etc. as a survival approach, is exactly what some of us are presently engaged in, and I would encourage others to do the same. We see some tough times ahead.
Man, do I already know, what some readers of my thread, are going to try to do with this post. LOL
My purpose was to highlight the very divisions that have crippled our political and economic system, ( as you so rightly deduced) and expose the relationship between the socialist element, with the corporatist element, which many have no clue, as to how and who have orchestrated this global beast. Not trying to high-jack your thread, just wanted to say i wish more people thought like you.There might be some hope yet/

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