We Can Do Better.

I hesitated to put this in the "Rant" section, because honestly I don't really want this to come across as a rant at all. I do however believe that a little constructive criticism is a good thing.

My primary reason for writing this is that I feel that there are a lot of very intelligent members on this site. This site probably has the largest collection of members who believe in critical thinking as well as thinking for themselves as any site out there. I also believe that there is a ton of great information and discussion that goes on here. The one thing that I feel we can all do better at is the quality and presentation of our posts. I'm using this thread to make some suggestions on how we can improve.

Please don't get upset and think I'm talking down to people or that I think I'm better than anyone. I'm really not like that at all. In fact, there will probably be mistakes in this thread, but they won't be there because I didn't take the time to at least try to correct them. I promise you will never see me post in someone else's thread to correct their spelling or grammar. In my opinion, that's just rude. So, having said all that, here are three things I think would improve the quality of all of our threads.

1. Grammar and Spelling

I've never understood why people get so defensive over this subject. It's not a matter of someone thinking they are smarter or better than you. It's simply that proper spelling and grammar will help you get you point across much better. This is especially important when you make a thread in which you are trying to persuade or convince someone of something you believe in. It's very hard to be persuaded or even give consideration to someone's opinion when they can't even write a proper paragraph and they misspell ten words in their post.

I'm not saying that I never misspell words or use improper grammar. I do it all the time, but I take the extra two minutes to copy and paste what I've written into an online grammar and spell check before I actually post a thread.

Here's a copy to the one I use all the time. All you have to do is copy your thread before you post it. Then you paste into the spell check and click on the spell check button. A new window will pop up and any mistakes will be highlighted. You can then click any mistake and a suggestion for replacing it will show at the bottom. Once you've corrected everything, you copy the corrected text and paste over your original thread then post . You don't have to change everything that it suggests. Sometimes is doesn't interpret things correctly. It is however a great tool to do a quick check with.

Online Grammar and Spell Check

Here's a great comic from the genius over at The Oatmeal.com concerning those words that everyone always gets wrong. It's funny and educational.

Ten Words You Need to Stop Misspelling.

Now, one thing I do want to say is that I understand that there are a lot of members here who do not speak English as their primary language. Honestly I think that's the only excuse for grammar and spelling mistakes. I'm not one of those people that think the whole world should know the English language. So, any of you that are from other countries and not living in the US, the above isn't really directed towards you. Although, I have a sneaking suspicion that a majority of those that speak English as a second language take more time to write properly than those of us that were born and raised here do.

2. Do Your Research

OK, I'm not saying you have to do two weeks of intensive investigation on a topic before making a thread on a topic. I do however think you should at least take 5-10 minutes of looking around before posting something.

First of all, there is a search function on this site. You don't have to spend hours looking through every thread posted in the last 5 years, but at least take a quick look around and make sure there aren't already ten threads on the same topic on the site. Also, it wouldn't hurt to use Google and see if what you're about to post has already been proven to be a hoax multiple times.

Another word that seems to be thrown around way too much is the word "proof". Don't make an attention grabbing thread called "Absolute Proof That Blue Unicorns Exist!!!", then proceed to post a picture that your 3 year old daughter drew after telling you she saw one in the back yard. I mean, feel free to post the picture as I'm sure it's adorable but don't call it "proof" of anything.

Now if you come across something that you really do think is very convincing evidence of something, then label it as such. If you come across a picture or video of a ghost or UFO or whatever, maybe make the title of your thread something like "Very Convincing Evidence of an Alien Craft". Very few things we come across are really "proof" of anything.

3. Actually Say Something

Don't make a thread with one sentence and a link to something. Give us your opinion or analysis. Give us something to actually talk about or debate. Maybe even using some suggestions from above, find some other links and resources concerning the topic other than the one piece of video you came across.

I'm not saying you have to write a novel, but at least a paragraph or two explaining how you feel or what you think about the topic you are presenting to everyone.

Well, I think that's all I have to say at the moment. I really hope no one takes this the wrong way. I'm not a jerk and I'm probably the most laid back, non-judgmental person you will ever meet. This really has nothing to do with me trying to act superior to anyone. It's simply a little constructive criticism to try and help others get their points across more effectively. I think if we can do a better job of writing on here it would be much easier to refer others to this site who may not be familiar with it, without them immediately dismissing it because of the quality of the threads they see.

While I am not the grammar/punctuation/spelling Nazi that others are. I have to agree. When you make a thread, say something. Why did you think this was important? Was it just to collect stars and flags? Or was there an important message you wanted to see disseminated?

I would like to add one thing to this topic if I may...
I think everyone needs to pay closer attention to what it is they post in response to a thread/post as well.
Take me as a Nazi if you like, but it really irks me at times when going through a thread in an interesting discussion and someone posts "That's stupid" or some such... If you have something to say we would all love to hear your opinion, regardless of whether it is our opinion or not. Just please if nothing else "That's stupid, because (insert opinion here)..."

Wahtver u wurd nazi yur obviously racist cuz us blaks cant sprell reel guud wahtver foo.

reply to post by jnyblujns

Well, Thats us told. l would like to point out that some people are not as fortunate as you are. There are a lot of very intelligent people who make a valuable contribution to this site. Some, unlike your good self and through no fault of their own probably never had the opportunity to recieve an education as good as the one you recieved. Also, not all are as computer literate as you, l happen to be one of them and yes, l make mistakes as a lot of us do but l would rather listen to someone that has something interesting to say with errors than someone whose spelling and grammar are not up to your standards and has little or no substance. Sorry for any spelling mistakes or/and grammatical errors. Peace starchild.

Originally posted by star child
reply to post by jnyblujns

 

Well, Thats us told. l would like to point out that some people are not as fortunate as you are. There are a lot of very intelligent people who make a valuable contribution to this site. Some, unlike your good self and through no fault of their own probably never had the opportunity to recieve an education as good as the one you recieved. Also, not all are as computer literate as you, l happen to be one of them and yes, l make mistakes as a lot of us do but l would rather listen to someone that has something interesting to say with errors than someone whose spelling and grammar are not up to your standards and has little or no substance. Sorry for any spelling mistakes or/and grammatical errors. Peace starchild.

First of all, this is exactly what I was talking about when I said people get defensive about things for no reason. Secondly, I went to college for one year and dropped out because I was an idiot when I was 19, so I haven't recieved a formal "education" and am no more privilaged than anyone on this site. Lastly, you don't have to be a computer genius to copy and paste something into a spell check program.

I did nothing but praise the members on this site for their intelligence, many of which are way more intelligent than I will ever be. This isn't about intelligence or having the opportunity to have a great education. This is about people being lazy and not taking five extra minutes to improve the quality of their posts so others can better understand what they are trying to say.

Having said that, I'm sorry if I offended you somehow. It wasn't my intention at all. I guess the way I think is if someone offers me some constructive criticism, I at least consider that it might be true and use that feedback to try and better myself instead of immediately attacking the person that was just trying to help. But, again, if you feel I was being mean in some way, I apologize.

Wow- a lecture from someone who's been here one month........

reply to post by jnyblujns


No, l did'nt think you were being mean but you did come across as just a tad condescending. The advice you have given is helpful, l'm sure a lot of people will heed what you say. l was just trying to point out that some times the content is more important than spelling mistakes or some grammatical errors. Sometimes l check things and turn my back for a couple of seconds and one of my cats has hit a key on my keyboard, l press reply and can't believe whats gone up there. That does not mean l'm lazy, it's an accident, these things happen. l'm sorry that you thought l was attacking you, l just wanted to put my point across. With respect starchild.

I'm going to say what the OP is trying not to say. Many of you can write better but you don't. Laziness, contrariness, whatever it is, it's annoying as hell. You all know the difference between your and you're (how the hell could "you're" be anything other than "you are"? Jeebus, people--seriously). And "there," "their," "they're"? Are you f---ing kidding me? Every teacher every one of us ever had drilled and beat this into us till we saw it in our nightmares!

Personally, I think it's some kind of misguided rebellion against authority--even imagined authority. It's maddening as hell, and you know it, and that's probably as good a reason as you need to do it....

How do you all this about the membership? And why in the world would you think anyone is going to take this tired old advice from a noob?

If these petty things bother you (in general) so much how hard is it to skip the post, or ignore that poster?

You do realize many of our posters here are ESL or multilingual, and thus maybe the mistakes you are most definitely ranting about (although whining fits better) may be due to valid reasons.

Originally posted by hotbakedtater
How do you all this about the membership? And why in the world would you think anyone is going to take this tired old advice from a noob?

If these petty things bother you (in general) so much how hard is it to skip the post, or ignore that poster?

You do realize many of our posters here are ESL or multilingual, and thus maybe the mistakes you are most definitely ranting about (although whining fits better) may be due to valid reasons.

Another helpful tip would of been "Read the thread before you post a comment"

Now, one thing I do want to say is that I understand that there are a lot of members here who do not speak English as their primary language. Honestly I think that's the only excuse for grammar and spelling mistakes. I'm not one of those people that think the whole world should know the English language. So, any of you that are from other countries and not living in the US, the above isn't really directed towards you. Although, I have a sneaking suspicion that a majority of those that speak English as a second language take more time to write properly than those of us that were born and raised here do.

I appreciate this advice. I enjoy improving my vocabulary, punctuation, and grammar skills. I have improved a lot since I started posting here. I usually do run longer posts through a spell check, because I have horrible spelling!
I used to get confused about there and their, but I think I’m getting a hold of it now. Another problem I have been working on is the "run-on" sentence, and the use of the semi colon. I believe people do forget the rules we were taught in school about the uses of the apostrophe.

I do agree though that here at ATS, if you aren’t just messing around BTS and are trying to convey your point, you should make your best effort in editing your posts.

Also just because a person is a "noob" doesn’t really mean they don't know what goes on here. My Aunt Peanut has been lurking here for years, and just hasn't signed up. I lurked for a good 6 months before joining in.

reply to post by jnyblujns


lnteresting blog in your signature. l just love listening to George Carlin.

English isn't my native language so I try to be very careful when it comes to grammar and spelling. I want people to understand me, and if someone points out a mistake I'l correct it and remember it so it won't happen again. Thank you for the links, jnyblujns, I'll bookmark them.

Another thing, when we are going to post something we see this:

No 1-Liners: Please do not create minimal "me too," "I agree," or similar very-short replies.

No Shorthand: Please do not use "txting" shorthand in your posts, this is an international site and many people may not understand your post.

State Your Case: If you're posting links to other sites or videos, please include your commentary on how the video is relevant to the discussion.

Which is basically what the OP is telling us about. It's not like he/she decided to come here and try to make us follow some crazy rules he came up with.

Originally posted by Casandra
English isn't my native language so I try to be very careful when it comes to grammar and spelling. I want people to understand me, and if someone points out a mistake I'l correct it and remember it so it won't happen again. Thank you for the links, jnyblujns, I'll bookmark them.

Another thing, when we are going to post something we see this:

No 1-Liners: Please do not create minimal "me too," "I agree," or similar very-short replies.

No Shorthand: Please do not use "txting" shorthand in your posts, this is an international site and many people may not understand your post.

State Your Case: If you're posting links to other sites or videos, please include your commentary on how the video is relevant to the discussion.

Which is basically what the OP is telling us about. It's not like he/she decided to come here and try to make us follow some crazy rules he came up with.

Not certain your age but I am an adult, I do not need anyone telling me how to post online.

reply to post by hotbakedtater


I'm 20. But age isn't important, I've seen grown people make spelling mistakes not even an elementary student would. We have all come across posts that look like a teenager's text message to one of his friends and it's annoying having to decipher them.

reply to post by hotbakedtater


No one is telling you how to post online. The OP just sugested a few things that will help when you are trying to get your point accross. I also sugested that people like yourself would benifit from reading the thread before making foolish comments. To me, not being able to accept constuctive critisism, or being able to admit that we all make mistakes and can always learn from each other...is well, childish.

Originally posted by MidnightSunshine
reply to post by hotbakedtater

 

No one is telling you how to post online. The OP just sugested a few things that will help when you are trying to get your point accross. I also sugested that people like yourself would benifit from reading the thread before making foolish comments. To me, not being able to accept constuctive critisism, or being able to admit that we all make mistakes and can always learn from each other...is well, childish.

Ok, good for you. I am just fine the way I am, but thanks for the concern, and thanks for the passive aggressive name calling, all I did was express an opinion.

Originally posted by Casandra
reply to post by hotbakedtater

 

I'm 20. But age isn't important, I've seen grown people make spelling mistakes not even an elementary student would. We have all come across posts that look like a teenager's text message to one of his friends and it's annoying having to decipher them.

edit on 27-4-2011 by Casandra because: Added reply

I am confused, why do you HAVE to decipher them at all?

Originally posted by hotbakedtater
I am confused, why do you HAVE to decipher them at all?

Well, because they could be saying something important. I'm just saying that people should follow the rules of the forums when posting. The rules say you can't use shortened words or post something useless to the thread.

I give all members a chance and I like reading to their opinion but they should remember not everyone is like them and that they might not understand them if they don't use English appropriately.