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The Black Grail?

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posted on Apr, 26 2011 @ 03:46 PM
I dreamed last night that I was browsing an endless flea market when I was approached by my mother. She grasped my wrist and said, "The Black Grail is sealed. America was founded to begin a process which will breech that seal."

Did a search on "black grail", found a bunch of Warhammer links and Black Metal lyrics. Has anyone else encountered this term?

posted on Apr, 26 2011 @ 03:58 PM
I've not heard of a black grail but I have heard of an 'anti-grail' - I don't know that they could be considered the same thing or not, I don't know whole lot about it really. I did find a link that looks like it gives the general idea of what it is about:
article on the grail

article on the anti-grail
edit on 26-4-2011 by skjalddis because: added further link

edit on 26-4-2011 by skjalddis because: fixed links - hopefully

links now fixed

edit on 26-4-2011 by skjalddis because: (no reason given)

posted on Apr, 26 2011 @ 04:21 PM
lots of thoughts down thru the years about America being more than just a noble experiment...goes back to Washington having a revelation one day after the stinking redcoats couldnt shoot him off his horse in the thick of battle as he rode up and down the lines....he had his coats shot full of holes but no blood was drawn...his entire demeanor changed after his prayers that night...JMO
edit on 4/26/2011 by Homedawg because: sp

posted on Apr, 26 2011 @ 05:36 PM
Many thanks. Your information has proved illuminating.

posted on Apr, 27 2011 @ 02:23 AM
reply to post by mistermonculous

Hello, I was searching for Adriana Koulias's articles on the Grail and Anti-Grail streams, and my Google search also brought up this site, with your report of your extraordinary dream. Though these will be very difficult to take in upon first reading, they are absolutely flawless as an overview of this cosmic battle – the true "Star Wars" – that has been playing out through earth's history. Your dream uncannily unveils the fact that yes, at this apocalyptic moment in history, the US (it's imperial political/military apparatus and its allied oligarchy) is playing the role of the Anti-Grail or Black Grail. For more on this, see:


I've just created an account here on ATS in order to reply to your post, and won't stay subscribed, so should you wish to contact me, my email address is I would be greatly interested should you have any further dreams along these lines; as the Black Grail's activities come to a head, we should pay heed especially to our dreams, where spiritual aid is frequently available.

Best wishes,
Kevin Dann

posted on Apr, 27 2011 @ 08:36 AM
The writings of Rudolf Steiner are good, yet they are Piscean in nature because, well, they were written during the Age of Pisces. Here is a more unveiled take (more unveiled because the following was written by a Master of the White Lodge during the Age of Aquarius) on the Grail Mysteries (we'll write more regarding Rudolf Steiner in my next post):

The Perfect Matrimony: The Great Battle

"Next to every temple of light, there is a temple of darkness. Where the light shines brighter, there the darkness by contrast turns denser.

"The Knights of the White Grail should inevitably fight against the Knights of the Black Grail.

"The witchcraft salon located in Salamanca, Spain, is the fatal antithesis of the Temple of Monserrat.

"Let us study this curious analogy of opposites. The Temple of the White Grail is a splendid monastery of the great light. The Temple of Salamanca is a splendid monastery of darkness.

"The monastery of Monserrat has two floors. The witchcraft salon also has two floors. The Temple of Monserrat is surrounded by beautiful and sweet gardens. The witchcraft salon also is surrounded by romantic gardens where each flower exhales a breath of death.

"Both are splendid edifices. In both buildings, truth and justice are well spoken of. In both temples, order and culture reign. In both temples, sanctity and love are spoken of. This will astound the reader, and he might question himself, “How is it possible that in the temples of evil, sanctity and love are well spoken of?” Please, dear reader, don’t be disconcerted. Remember, dear brother or sister, that the Knights of the Black Grail are wolves dressed in sheep’s clothing. The adepts of the left hand love to ejaculate the Christonic semen; that is why they are black magicians. Their philosophy is the philosophy of fatality. For them, all good is evil. For them, all evil is good. The doctrine of Javhe is divine for them. The doctrine of Christ is diabolical for them; the lords of darkness hate the Christ. The sons of the Abyss hate the Divine Mother. In their regions, they violently attack all those who invoke the Divine Mother or her beloved son.

"If the occult investigator goes into the witchcraft salon with his Astral Body, he will inevitably find a beautiful, spiral staircase which leads to the most secret place of the precinct. This is an elegant salon furnished with the splendid luxury of the lordly mansions of the XVII century. There shine the One Thousand and One Night mirrors, the enchanted rugs, and all of Nahemah’s evil beauty. The governor of that mansion of fatality is Don Ramón Rubifero, distinguished Knight of the Black Grail, horrible demon of darkness.

"How unfortunate are those disciples who visit the witchcraft salon! Nahemah’s fatal beauty will seduce them with all the delightful magic of her enchantments. Then they will roll down into the bottomless pit where we hear only the crying and the gnashing of teeth. For them it would have been better not to have been born at all or to have had a windmill stone tied around their necks and to have been thrown into the depths of the sea. [See Matthew 18:6, Mark 9:42, Luke 17:12]

"In the Temple of Monserrat shines the glory of the silver chalice with the blood of the Redeemer of the world. In the Temple of Salamanca shines the darkness of the Black Grail. In the Temple of Monserrat, cosmic festivals are celebrated. In the Temple of Salamanca, profane dances and disgusting witches’ Sabbaths are celebrated. The Knights of the Holy Grail worship the Christ and the Divine Mother. The Knights of the Black Grail worship Javhe and great Nature’s fatal shadow. That shadow is called Santa Maria (Holy Mary). [Samael explains elsewhere that this person is not Mary the mother of Jesus.] The Kingdom of Santa Maria is the Abyss. The great battle between the powers of light and darkness is as ancient as eternity."

– Samael Aun Weor

A reference is made, in another thread, in regard to the difference between Nahemah and Lilith.

The White Moon existing as Nahemah, and the Black Moon existing as Lilith.

On Lilith who is the Black Moon: "Her hair is long, red like a lily; her face is white and pink."The Zohar

So the "White Moon" (related to Nahemah) and the "Black Moon" (Lilith, who is related to the "Hidden Face of our Psychological Moon") are both aspects of the Black Grail.

However, only the White Moon's inferior or infernal aspect is of the Black Grail, because the White Moon also has an aspect, related to the White Grail, that is superior to Nahemah.

Basically, the superior aspect of the White Moon is related to Jehovah (not to be confused with Javhe) and Gabriel of the White Grail, and the White Moon's inferior aspect is related to Nahemah of the Black Grail.

Here is a link to a recent post in regard to the same topic.

Please note that in my posts, it is always suggested that it is best to rise above Lilith and Nahemah, and that I'm only showing how Nahemah is the lesser of the two evils; two evils of which are both parts of our psychology, that is to say, so long as we have ego alive within us (ego is not necessarily to be confused with individuality).

See for example this thread in another forum:

"Self-Realization: Yogananda and Others" by Almustafa

edit on 27-4-2011 by Tamahu because: added text

posted on Apr, 27 2011 @ 08:48 AM
skjalddis and ktdann

Even though I've not yet read much of his writings, Rudolf Steiner was no doubt aware of much of what is referenced in my previous post.

And even though Samael Aun Weor wrote that the writings of Rudolf Steiner have mistakes within them, He also wrote that Rudolf Steiner was "a true Rosicrucian-Gnostic" and that his works are "wells of profound wisdom".

We plan on reading Outline of Occult Science by Rudolf Steiner, and Freemasonry and Ritual Work: The Misraim Service by Rudolf Steiner.

edit on 27-4-2011 by Tamahu because: spelling

posted on Apr, 27 2011 @ 10:20 AM
reply to post by Tamahu

I am literally weeping a little bit. Until a month ago I was an Agnostic Utilitarian. I have some grounding in esoterica, but any knowledge gained has (outside of one attempt in my extreme youth I deemed unsuccessful) never been applied.

Since a certain event a month ago, I feel like the inexplicable has flooded my daily life. I am fervently devoted to love, autonomy, and being; so if there is a choice of hats, I'm already wearing the white one.

Thanks particularly to you, Tamahu, this information is beyond value.

posted on Apr, 27 2011 @ 10:38 AM
reply to post by ktdann

Many thanks, friend.

Be well.

posted on Apr, 28 2011 @ 09:27 AM
reply to post by mistermonculous

Hello Mister Monculous,

Thanks for your reply. I was terribly dismayed to read this post from the person quoting Samuel Aun Weor, in my estimation a very dark occultist. To quote Weor's opinion of Rudolf Steiner, well, this is truly not of any help in finding the truth.

I came back to ATS today while doing a search on "Remote Viewing/9-11" and came upon the very interesting thread " Do you feel it?" From the activity there, and from what I know from a wide network of clairvoyant friends, the coming years will indeed bring an apocalyptic wave of unprecedented magnitude.

Best wishes,
Kevin Dann

posted on Apr, 28 2011 @ 10:34 AM
reply to post by ktdann

I sent you a private message, and thought I'd mention it in the thread, as you are new to this site.


posted on Apr, 28 2011 @ 01:02 PM
reply to post by mistermonculous

You are very welcome.

I've read some of your posts here over the past couple weeks; and must say, that I'm rather fascinated by the way you articulate things, and that you certainly do strike me as one of the more intelligent posters here.

And I'd also wondered if your avatar is a somewhat humorous reference to what Samael Aun Weor refers to as the intellectual animal mistakenly called Man.

Anyway, I'm working on cutting down on my posting here for various reasons; however if you have any questions for me, feel free to ask, and I'll make sure to reply even if it's not right away.

Inverential Peace

posted on Apr, 28 2011 @ 01:46 PM

Originally posted by ktdann
I was terribly dismayed to read this post from the person quoting Samuel Aun Weor, in my estimation a very dark occultist.

To quote Weor's opinion of Rudolf Steiner, well, this is truly not of any help in finding the truth.

The teachings of "Aleister Crowley" for example are of "dark occultism"; not the teachings of Samael Aun Weor.

If we want to begin to see the reality of the tremendous truths that are taught by Samael Aun Weor, we can start by looking to see what other Initiates of the White Lodge, and the World's Religion's Prophets, have to say in comparison to what is taught by Samael Aun Weor (link): Quotes from Worldwide Scriptures and Initiates of the White Lodge

Surely, any authentic White Lodge Occultist such as Rudolf Steiner or Manly P. Hall, would not have many, if any, qualms with what is taught by the Gnostic Movement.

There is much that can be said about this topic; nevertheless, a very respectable Islamic Gnostic-Instructor (Almustafa) has said it best:

Freemasonry and the Gnostic Movement

"If you study our resources as we have indicated (mainly through our lectures on Gnostic Radio or those that have been transcribed on the Gnostic Teachings page), you will see that the mystery tradition of Freemasonry is studied and explained in depth within the Gnostic knowledge.

"Different groups have said different things: I know and have heard of some Masons who have been pleased by The Perfect Matrimony (which goes into detail about the Kabbalistic symbolism contained within the rites of the Masons, which otherwise would have remained cryptic given the limitations of some of their resources). Others have rejected the writings of Samael Aun Weor completely, mostly due to the tone of his works, and not their content.

"There are many who do not like Samael Aun Weor because of his writing style, since he composed through a Martian influence and idiosyncrasy (relating with the Seven Spiritual Rays described in esotericism). However, what he explains does not contradict what any of the other Initiates or esoteric authors (like Albert Pike, Manly P. Hall, etc.) have said about these subjects.

"Also, because he was so open with this knowledge, he has been condemned by many spiritual groups, Rosicrucian, Mason or otherwise, who have 1) either been possessive for ownership of this wisdom or 2) are openly contradicted by what Samael Aun Weor wrote, since what some really practice is a disguised form of Black Magic.

"It is certainly not pleasant for some to approach the sensitive subject of spiritual authenticity, but compassion (understanding) is not complacency with ignorance. The Logos Samael is described in the Book of Revelation as the White Rider, from whose mouth (Tantric knowledge of Da'ath) emerges a double-edged sword. This sword, even in Samael Aun Weor's incarnated time, has cut through many people due to its force, and is representative of the conflicts that have emerged in relation to the spreading of this knowledge (since many have remained attached to traditions but without comprehension of them; therefore, in being corrected, a lot of "spiritual" pride has been wounded).

"Gnosis refers to a specific form of experiential knowledge, which is contained within the cryptic symbolism of the mystery traditions. As Son of Man pointed out to you, just because a person participates in a tradition does not mean they understand the esotericism of that tradition (indicating that they have Gnosis). Also, if one does not have Gnosis or experiential understanding of a particular tradition (grasping with internal experience from one's consciousness what it signifies), it indicates that they will not likely recognize corruptions to that tradition if there are any present.

"If you want to find comments about Samael Aun Weor from Rosicrucians or Masons, you can simply use google. But we will not reiterate for this community the straw-man propoganda being proliferated against him to denigrate his writings. Samael Aun Weor was very conscious of the criticism poised against him from Rosicrucian orders like A.M.O.R.C., and wrote about it in works like The Revolution of Beelzebub and Igneous Rose. There are many who are coming to study and appreciate his writings though, and there are others who do not. While the Dharma is the Dharma, everyone is entitled to his or her own opinion."

Another quote from a Gnostic-Instructor (Son of Man), from the same thread:

Freemasonry and the Gnostic Movement

"Not many would even know what that means, since many who practice Freemasonry are asleep, and only cultivate it as a traditionalism without realizing its esoteric content. However, there are esoteric orders of Freemasonry which are rooted in the black application of Shem Hamphorash stone, the Black Magic of the Intellectual Kabbalists who use Yesod in the wrong way.

"Even then, many Black Initiates who have awakened in evil think they are doing very well, due to the acquisition of occult powers and internal experiences (but in the subjective ego). This is why many misguided souls of the Abyss believe themselves to be White, like Beelzebub, who fortunately did realize his mistake.

"But, then there are the fallen Bodhisattvas, or those who once rectified the occult stone previously through White Initiations, but are now fallen into Black Magic. These individuals are extremely dangerous, since they know that what they do is wrong, and yet continue to do so with eagerness. These beings, carrying a lot of power, tend to organize and run such institutions, whether in the physical or internal dimensions, since the greater one is in heaven, the greater one's fall and power in hell will be."

edit on 28-4-2011 by Tamahu because: edited text

posted on Apr, 28 2011 @ 03:40 PM

And I'd also wondered if your avatar is a somewhat humorous reference to what Samael Aun Weor refers to as the [url=]intellectual animal mistakenly called Man?

Serendipitous coincidence. I also later noted a correspondence between the "Ape of Thoth" concept, which is most appropriate, as my avatar is a figurative "scribe", a sort of stand-in.

edit on 28-4-2011 by mistermonculous because: Bad formatting.

posted on Apr, 28 2011 @ 04:10 PM
Ha. I didn't think of it from the "Ape of Thoth" (Tehuti sometimes appears symbolically as a monkey or baboon) or Hanuman angle.

Now it seems to me that the Divinities who appear symbolically as animals, are often completely Divine in their symbolism; whereas the Centaur and Minotaur are actually symbolic of the Initiate who in the internal planes is half Human and half intellectual-animal, or a Hanasmuss.


(plural: Hanasmussen) A Middle Eastern term referring to a person with a divided consciousness: part of it is free and natural, and part is trapped in the ego. In synthesis, everyone who has ego is a Hanasmuss. Although there are many variations and kinds of Hanasmussen, Gnosis generally describes four primary grades:

mortal: the common person

those with the Solar Astral body

those with the Solar Bodies created

fallen Angels

These are described in detail by Samael Aun Weor in The Master Key.

“The Twice-born who does not reduce his Lunar Ego to cosmic dust converts himself into an abortion of the Cosmic Mother. He becomes a Marut, and there exist thousands of types of Maruts. Certain oriental sects and some Muslim tribes commit the lamentable error of rendering cult to all of those families of Maruts. Every Marut, every Hanasmuss (plural: Hanasmussen) has in fact two personalities: one White and another Black (one Solar and another Lunar). The Innermost, the Being dressed with the Solar Electronic Bodies, is the White Personality of the Hanasmuss, and the pluralized “I” dressed with the Protoplasmic Lunar Bodies is the Hanasmuss’ Black Personality. Therefore, these Maruts have a double center of gravity.” - Samael Aun Weor

So in this sense, Tehuti and Hanuman–no matter how they appear symbolically–for example, are always beyond (because Tehuti and Hanuman are completely Divine) the Centaur/Minotaur (the latter existing as Hanasmussen).

edit on 28-4-2011 by Tamahu because: edited text

posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 12:37 AM
reply to post by Tamahu

How delightful!

Are you familiar with "Journey to the West"? a.k.a. "Monkey"

It is one of the oldest novels in any language, and the Waley translation is sublime.

The first two lines:

"The Divine Root Conceives and the Spring Breaks Forth

As the Heart's Nature is Cultivated, the Great Way Arises"

edit on 29-4-2011 by mistermonculous because: Doh! Forgot about the "Tale of Genji", 11th cent.

edit on 29-4-2011 by mistermonculous because: Had to insert that quote.

edit on 29-4-2011 by mistermonculous because: (no reason given)

edit on 29-4-2011 by mistermonculous because: yarp.

posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 04:40 AM
reply to post by mistermonculous

Hello M,

I am replying within the thread as I just tried to send you a message and received a prompt saying I could not send priate mail until I had made 20 posts.

Thanks for your note. Your instinct that all doctrines are equally treacherous is a good one, in that it keeps you in a state of discernment. Beyond the circus world of doctrine, however, there are eternal truths. Unfortunately, 99.9% of what is offered as Truth within the realm of modern pop occulture is "Counterinitiation" knowledge rather than Initiation. Samuel Aun Weor certainly belongs to this dark tribe.

I came upon Weor while I was doing research on Aztec myth; you can read the results of that research in Christ & the Maya Calendar. His statements about Mesoamerican mythology, and the gods of Mesoamerica, are pure fantasy, and actually have the same quality that stood behind the terror culture instituted by Tlaclaell in the 15th century. At present, as 2012 approaches, we are in the midst of a proliferation of false gospels.

Best wishes,

posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 05:44 PM
I have been contemplating my dream, and the information provided on this thread. In addition, although I last read "Journey to the West" when I was sixteen for a Chinese Lit. course and interpreted it solely as an entertaining fairy tale, I began to re-read it last night. I have subsequently pondered the following conclusion.

The Black Grail represents the abyss of non-being. It is "sealed" away from the great ocean of being. Although non-existence would seem to preclude sentient entites, I am entertaining the idea that this is not the case.

I will condence my thoughts into a fable, as this seems fitting.

An earthworm fulfills an essential function. It aerreates the soil, helps to break down dead matter. One day a particularly cunning and resourceful earthworm decided that it would like to be a bird. Rather than go through the many eons of evolution which would be required for this transformation, it devised a plan to rip the wings from a bird whom it trapped and employed technology in order to make the wings functional. Yet, even though the earthworm was able to fly, it still remained an earthworm with some poor, dead bird's wings strapped to its back.
edit on 29-4-2011 by mistermonculous because: blurb

posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 07:49 PM
reply to post by mistermonculous

Alternative possibility: There is but one worm with many casings, and it never had nor ever shall have the option of being anything other than a worm, whether by means of evolution or any other process.

posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 07:50 PM


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