Cyclic Bombardment of Earth - Thoughts?

It started for me as a kid when learning about Dinosaurs and then reading about historical events like ice ages and extinctions. This is speculative and though I'm fairly sure of the basic info, I haven't the drive to cite and paste links... sorry 'bout that (added- because most of the info came to me through books now stuffed into a storage locker and the info isn't hard to get now via google... I'm old, you see).

The layers of jumbled flora and mega fauna in the permafrost in Alaska through Siberia led me to agree with the observation that it looked like a huge wave dashed everything up against the higher ground. Mapping the finds of the mega fauna soup from 13,000 BCE supports this. Recently, meteoric dust, like with the Jurassic extinction, has been found in the 13,000 BCE layer to solidify theories about an asteroid or many doing the damage.

That there have been mass extinctions with some periodocity has been noted, though argument over the time period's exact nature exists. It seems the severity of the extinction events vary and this might give an illusion of randomness, or augment a cycle with random events and thus hide the pattern.

Various researchers have pointed to worldwide flood "myths" as an indication something worldwide and nasty happened in the comparitively recent past (approx 13,000 years ago). Comets are feared and considered bad omens across the globe and are entrenched in the myths and folklore. Dragons have been suggested to be representations of flaming debree raining down from the sky. There are the Biblical accounts of flood and fire and tree ring data has shown sudden climate change in the middle ages, around 500 A.D.?, that could have been caused by space rocks, as well as at the end of the bronze age and even a small one in the 1700's.

There was the Tunguska event that showed that even if something came in over land, it didn't have to leave a crater to be destructive.

Also common in the oldest myths are clues about time, as in the common tale of a mill grinding in the heavens that regularly goes off its axis and brings renewel through destruction, via the (hard to get through) book "Hamlet's Mill." The authors think this mill metaphore is merely noticing the progression of the equinox, but it could be a warning embedded in word-of-mouth code as the best way to survive civilization's breaking down.

The fossil and ice core records show, overall, ebbs and flows of life and climate in a strangely cyclic manner. That Ice Ages exist at all is odd, but undeniable. The exact mechanisms haven't been identified, but a "nuclear winter" type event caused by an asteroid strike filling the atmosphere with ablative dust is certainly a reasonable possibility.

DNA mapping has shown "choke points" where the human race had nearly gone extinct at least twice in our relatively short existence.

Then there are the literally thousands of out of place artifacts and "anomolies" that have been found suggesting civilizations far older than this one.

There have been various hypothesis how this periodic hammering could occur, and catastrophe theory is slowly gaining on uniformitarian ideas. The sun having a twin, perhaps a brown dwarf, as in the Nemisis theory that sends asteroids into the inner solar system at intervals, is at least reasonable and would explain the gravity disturbances seen in the outer solar system.

The asteroid belt, Neptune's retrograde rotation, craters visible throughout the planets and Mars' past catastrophe that at least stripped its atmosphere all point to major events in the solar system in the past, though there is nothing to give a clue about any regularity.

Knowing that we, in our present form, have been around for at least 500,000 years, though, it defies logic to suppose we were just hunting/gathering and cave squatting for 490,000 of those years, or more. We don't act like that. We are social creatures that move toward easier modes of existence and once fed, think about things. I think that the modern ideas about our past are flawed and colonialistic in reference.

Language studies show that our ancestors were far more connected than was supposed and recent finds of coc aine in Egyptian mummies points to at least more global contact than was supposed. Then there are the maps that got better the older they are, a valid example that has been beaten to death. Recently several possible cities have been found in various areas of the oceans hundreds of feet under water. Hancock, though he has books to sell, isn't a complete idiot.

Other cultures besides the West have long traditions and believe we have had previous high civilizations puncuated by catastrophes. This is a global phenomena. Is it reasonable to dismiss this when there are many odd artifacts and a few sites that support it? It's been a chain of choosing the least scary scenario, parsing evidence, and academic filtering that has formed our mainstream views about this world we inhabit.

In the lunitic fringe, there are mystery schools and esoteric knowledge that suggest belief in this periodic bombardment. It's a fact that bombardment from space has happened on this planet many times. The question is, is it predictable and/or cyclic in some part? Regardless of cyclic or random, why aren't we doing much of anything about it (unless hidden to avoid mass panic, the basis for so many conspiracy theories)... or is it delusion?

It clearly cannot be delusional on our part. Like you pointed out, there are far too many coincidences for anything to be a coincidence anymore. We are taught only what THEY want us to know, then left in the dark to fend for ourselves (conspiracy theories).
It's frustrating trying to express the fact that there are so many "holes" in stories and theories, that the general public just doesn't get it. No, I do not have THE answer, but at least I am alert enough to ask questions and not be herded along.

Someone once told me "To get the right answer, you must ask the right question." I still don't know what that question is.

While I do agree with your general direction of thinking OP, you make a lot of claims that DO need sources and citations. If you are to lazy to post them, perhaps you should refrain from making a new thread... How can we trust you did the research, and didn't just make it up,without posting it?

This thread has been done hundreds of times already.

I hope it doesn't have anything to do with Earth going through the Galactic plane, for those who don't know the galactic plane is the Milky Ways center from top to bottom. Take a cookie hold it up in front of you looking at it from the side then Imagen our solar system going around it but not in a strait line but moving up and down as it goes around the cookie or the Milky Way Galaxy every 226 million years. Each time our solar system goes through the center or the galactic plane of the Galaxy every 27 - 36 million years as it goes around the Milky Way some people believe that there are all kinds of things that can happen.

One of the theory's is that there is more gravitational pull there and it could reek havoc on our Earth to say the least causing earthquakes. One more is that there is large amounts of dust and asteroids there in a flat disk right in the center where we go through and I don't need to tell you what that would do to Earth. There is a theory I heard on Coast to Coast one time that when Earth goes through the Galactic plane the pressure slams the Earths atmosphere down to the Earths surface on the side that goes through it first. Here are some link about this theory. Good job OP star and flag, Thanks

earthsky.org...
plantosurvive2012.com...
www.zaradia.com...

reply to post by itsatrap


As perhaps poorly explained, the post was a broad overview of a lifetime of gathered info. I took some effort to eliminate things that I thought too fringe or too hard to find with a google search. The new finding of meteoric iridium in the layer at the mega fauna/ice age boundry from 12,000+ years ago was covered by NOVA and the MSM a few weeks ago.

I know it's an old topic, but isn't everything at this point? It still seems quite relevent from my perspective and I threw it out there to see if anyone less lazy, with more info or with more imagination/time had anything to add.

So sorry to waste your time reading/responding to it. Though I don't recall asking you to cough up money for it, either... so it's worth exactly what you paid for it... but perhaps I do owe you for time spent wasted on the internet. If that's the case, then I am in serious financial trouble ; ]

reply to post by Baddogma




Up until your last post i was going to defend your thread and the attack on you by Itsatrap but i can see i have no need to as you have done a marvelous job all by your little lonesome, well done.

For those interested, when you read something you dont like you really really dont have to respond so negatively to it in such a manner as to cause offence.

Keep your thoughts to yourself eh.


Icanseeatoms.

Originally posted by Baddogma
The layers of jumbled flora and mega fauna in the permafrost in Alaska through Siberia led me to agree with the observation that it looked like a huge wave dashed everything up against the higher ground. Mapping the finds of the mega fauna soup from 13,000 BCE supports this.

I work with the paleontologists who appear on the "Arctic Dinosaurs" epiosde of "Nova." They really aren't jumbled together in a great soup although there are areas (old river bends and so forth) that were crossing points where you get a jumble of fossils and badly crushed ones. We're working on some material (pachyrhinosaurus and hadrosaur, with a bit of T. Rex) from one of those sites.

Recently, meteoric dust, like with the Jurassic extinction, has been found in the 13,000 BCE layer to solidify theories about an asteroid or many doing the damage.

That came from 2004 and was associated not only with iridum but with "black mats" found in several locations including here in Texas. Howver, the basic scenario didn't hold up and has been discounted by most (most species died out over a several thousand year period and it wasn't size dependent (elephants survived, mammoths and mastadons and others didn't.) Nor was the Jurassic associated with meteoric dust (you're thinking of the iridum layer at the Cretaceous/Tertiary boundary. Jurassic extincion seems to be associated with the "rusting" of the atmosphere and possibly volcanos. ...along with other possible causes...)

Various researchers have pointed to worldwide flood "myths" as an indication something worldwide and nasty happened in the comparitively recent past (approx 13,000 years ago).

These would be "armchair researchers." Geological evidence shows no flood... ditto paleontological evidence and archaeological evidence. Anthropological studies of myths and folklore and legends show that the myths are only in cultures where you have rivers that flood OR arise after Christian missionaries came in, as variants of the Christian flood myth. Many other cultures have no flood myths.

Comets are feared and considered bad omens across the globe and are entrenched in the myths and folklore. Dragons have been suggested to be representations of flaming debree raining down from the sky. There are the Biblical accounts of flood and fire and tree ring data has shown sudden climate change in the middle ages, around 500 A.D.?, that could have been caused by space rocks, as well as at the end of the bronze age and even a small one in the 1700's.

The "Bronze age" rose at different centuries in different places and gave way to the "iron age" in different centuries in different locations. There wasn't one shock event that transitioned history (and we know this because multiple cultures were fully literate by then and were writing all sorts of things.) Nor was there a "space rock" involved in these changes (though volcanos are implicated since they last lots longer.) Tungaska didn't cause any significant climate change since it didn't hit land and pulverize a lot of land into aerosol type material and float in the atmosphere for years.

Also common in the oldest myths are clues about time, as in the common tale of a mill grinding in the heavens that regularly goes off its axis and brings renewel through destruction, via the (hard to get through) book "Hamlet's Mill." The authors think this mill metaphore is merely noticing the progression of the equinox, but it could be a warning embedded in word-of-mouth code as the best way to survive civilization's breaking down.

"Hamlet's Mill" was another speculation that was found to be incorrect.

Then there are the literally thousands of out of place artifacts and "anomolies" that have been found suggesting civilizations far older than this one.

There aren't, actually (at least in the 'out of place.') Early civilizations were sophisticated and did sophisticated things, but we could outstrip them (do the same thing with modern tools and machines) in far less time and by far fewer people. Yes, even the pyramids.

The sun having a twin, perhaps a brown dwarf, as in the Nemisis theory that sends asteroids into the inner solar system at intervals, is at least reasonable and would explain the gravity disturbances seen in the outer solar system.

That's been mostly discounted (with the improvement of astronomical observatories and tools.) I don't think it's been seriously considered since the 1980's (at least in scientific communties) -- to the best of my knowledge.

Knowing that we, in our present form, have been around for at least 500,000 years, though, it defies logic to suppose we were just hunting/gathering and cave squatting for 490,000 of those years, or more. We don't act like that. We are social creatures that move toward easier modes of existence and once fed, think about things. I think that the modern ideas about our past are flawed and colonialistic in reference.

Uhm... I think you have some "popular culture" biased ideas of these people.

...and recent finds of coc aine in Egyptian mummies points to at least more global contact than was supposed.

Actually, it points to European mummy unwrapping parties (no kidding) in the 1800's. Other (newly discovered, never in a museum or collection) mummies show no such influence.

Other cultures besides the West have long traditions and believe we have had previous high civilizations puncuated by catastrophes. This is a global phenomena.

Actually, it isn't. The ancient Egyptians, for instance (first dynasty through middle kingdom) held no such belief, and it's reasonable to suspect that the "legendary god-kings of the Ramses list" were created to legitimize his rule.

Is it reasonable to dismiss this when there are many odd artifacts and a few sites that support it? It's been a chain of choosing the least scary scenario, parsing evidence, and academic filtering that has formed our mainstream views about this world we inhabit.

I feel that science has done a good job in eliminating the wishful-thinking mysticism and the "channeled material" (because none of it ever turns up any proof) and hoaxes and so forth. But -- I'm up for a good challenge! Show me some evidence (artifacts, etc) showing that there were great ancient civilizations that appeared and collapsed in a cyclic form. We know from written history and archaeology that one civilization can collapse but what usually happens is that a competitor slides in and takes over their territory while other civilizations go on happily progressing.

But get to the original source. Not just "Hancock says" but show me the artifacts and how they were dated. Folks show me stuff all the time -- I don't always agree and sometimes I think my information is better, but I often get introduced to new stuff that I'd never seen before (like the "Fairy Chimneys" of Cappadocia.)

reply to post by Byrd

Originally posted by Baddogma

Then there are the literally thousands of out of place artifacts and "anomolies" that have been found suggesting civilizations far older than this one.

Originally posted by Byrd

There aren't, actually (at least in the 'out of place.') Early civilizations were sophisticated and did sophisticated things, but we could outstrip them (do the same thing with modern tools and machines) in far less time and by far fewer people. Yes, even the pyramids.

Somehow this seems to be a shoot from the hip claim eh? You might have thought it out "before" tagging the Great Pyramid of Giza on the end of that... lol

Even to this very day, with architects still trying to align "buildings" to True North.... The most accurate is the Great Pyramid of Giza. It's an amazing claim to consider when not one construction of modern times has THAT level of "SHOW ME, DON"T TELL ME".

So if perchance, even modern societies can manage to align any construction with better accuracy then the Great Pyramid, the claim that "modern" tools can "outstrip" ancient constructions "might" be taken seriously. As it is... it's not valid.. lol

That's just one point Modern Man can't match in construction... The True North Point. When that's figured out in a show me don't tell me "modern construction" then MAYBE understanding even how or when the Great Pyramid was constructed could be considered with more then just shallow Egyptology theories or modern construction limitations.

reply to post by Byrd


Meaty, excellent reply. Thank you for the effort and info.

The Iridium in the 12,900 BCE black layer, found in Arizona too, BTW, was from 2004? I remember reading about it back then, too, sans iridium, and even in the 1980's as an undergrad, but I thought the whole point of the NOVA (just repeated) and articles I saw last year, or perhaps 2009, was that there was more evidence, i.e. iridium, pointing to a meteoric event aiding in the extinction of the mega beasties.

It always made more sense to me than mass hunting. There are still deer in Virginia all the way to Cali and those lunatics have had semi-automatic weapons for a hundred years! There are the buffalo, or lack thereof though. The black line (correctly mat-ty) itself, which I've seen live and in person and is pretty boring in many respects, suggests quite the burning to me. One cause that springs to mind is meteor, as I don't think there was enough volcanism at that time and place to ignite Arizona through Texas, but who knows, maybe Clovis smokers?

I will look into it and get less lazy and see if in fact it has been discredited... do you know if it was poo-poo'd because the iridium wasn't really there or because it wasn't there in large levels? And if so, why didn't the NOVA rerun add the endnote that "what you just sat through, again, has been discredited," as that would have been quite helpful and curtailed such poor info dessemination. Now I'm almost hoping PBS gets defunded!

As far as drawn out extinctions, that's hard to pinpoint and one would expect it to be drawnout in a nuclear winter type scenario, rather than a full, global level extinction event like the one from cretaceous/tertiary boundry (TY-old brain) 65,000 million years ago that might have wiped most all the critters out, not to mention the biggie cambrian wipe out-though I don't remember any hard evidence at all for a cause for that one. Ice ages are pretty spectacular blips, though, and I remain open to ablative effect.

The mummy coke parties are wild and I really hadn't heard that. That's pretty funny, and the possibility did cross my mind at the time, actually, though I guessed grad students from the 1980's. Thanks again, for that. I wish I had been a fly on the wall listening to pith helmeted, monacle wearing Egyptologists spouting stream of consciousness ego rap at high speed.

As far as flood myths and Christian Missionaries, well, they sure did muck up things and lost enough material to fill the Library of Alexandria, so adding a flood myth or three wouldn't surprise me at all, and since many of the cultures involved had no writing it's hard to prove one way or the other... but that does sound reasonable.

In respect to what we did or didn't do from perhaps 1.5 million to 500,000 BCE to 10,000 years ago, it is just speculation from the old armchair. But culturally biased or not, there are signs of huge habitations, on the Guyana coast of S. America for example where there are canals and mounds and cleared forest stretching for literal miles, that are old and we haven't scratched the surface yet archeologically speaking. They have found a few pots from 8,000 years ago in a canal there, but that tells us not much. It is probably not more than 10,000 years old, but flood and water level rise could hide a whole lot.

There are concensus signs of habitation in the Mediterranean and Black Seas at least. If that "city" off Cuba's west coast is legit, that would amaze even this old heretic and all bets are off. I'm not saying they had skyscapers and rocket ships, just postulating that in that amount of time and being exactly like us in DNA, our traditional view seems culturally biased to me, too. In fact, I'd venture that all anthropological views are culturally biased!

One of the OOPA's, a layer of tiles, was found 20 feet or so underground in southern Oklahoma in the late 19th century that covered an acre or two and was written off as obviously native American...yes, of course, but how old was it? Proving it's age is nearly impossible now as it was just recorded in a newspaper, though an old anthro TA of mine said his family had a few pieces... and that there were odd walls being found underground "all over Texas" (probably meaning two or three spots) and getting bulldozed to keep projects on time and under budget, so either way, it proves nothing, nor do all the other little doo-dads that have been found, or not. Just little anomolies that suggest things. Like those maps.

So I rather hope you win this argument, or have won, because I have no wish to see us smushed with space rock anytime soon. As far as random smushing goes, I still think we get smushed a bit more often then anyone would like. Cyclic smushing would just be helpful in giving a heads up. But on the whole (and I won't mention every idea you deflated due to a modicum of hubris still left in me), you are chock full of valid points. Cheers

i am an older fart also and got most of my ideas from books which makes backing up claims is a pain in the butt as i am not good with google, so the op has all my sympathy on that note. i will say that i have also read most all that the op states (though once again knowledge grows and old ideas do get thrown out as better ones arise).

as for flood thinking i am not religious and i dont believe in a worldwide flood but i do think that there were large catostrophic floods before. somehwere i read that some scholars had traced the origins of flood mythos and found that the area around indonesia (sorry cant be more precise) seemed to be the originating point (for one they had the most versions of flood myths). a thread i read on here the other week reminded me about this. it was on a civilization based in southern india extending to madagascar and into indonesia which might now be being rediscovered under the sea.
back closer to topic i have also wondered wether there are hazards in space the we periodically run into as our solar system meanders on its way though the galaxy and the universe it is definately something that should be examined even it is just to nullify the possibility. the universe is a big freaking place!