How do I know that YOU have consciousness?

reply to post by yic17


In Lac' ech....I am a reflection of you and you are a reflection of me....welcome to the hall of mirrors....WE R CONCIOUSSNESS TOGETHER

reply to post by yic17


In Lac' ech....I am a reflection of you and you are a reflection of me....welcome to the hall of mirrors....WE R CONsCIOUSSNESS TOGETHER

ooops internet bogged and i refreshed...sorry for the double shot of my opinion....

reply to post by yic17

Do my questions offend you? I have no intention to be offensive to anyone with my questions. I am just genuinely curious about these questions because I am unable to answer them. And I am curious to see what others think on the matter.

Others are just as unable to answer them as you are. Just look at the nature of the questions! How can anyone know? Anyone who thinks they have an answer to this question is a conceited intellectual who thinks a complicated answer for this very simple question is incredibly clever. Such people are distracted with their own self image.

Truth is, we dont know. Trust is the most one can answer

reply to post by yic17


Short answer (as already posted, sorry) is you don't.

Previous philosophers have posited that, for one example, we are in fact indivuated pieces of a single consciousness, or god, probably created to give the poor thing company and extrapolated upon exponentially to infinity... imagine being a point of awareness all alone in darkness... I had an anaesthesia experience like that that sucked!

But many religions insist that our plurality is an illusion and we are simply learning and amusing ourselves with the illusion exactly because we are in fact all alone in infinity.

I find that bleak and hope that at least if that's the ultimate truth then the simulation is infinite enough to keep "us" from despair.

Then there's the less bleak approach and the thought that this god (still maybe us, if you like) indeed can create, and there we go to definition of simulation... if a simulation, or construct is real enough to the perciever, then does it matter if it is ultimately a construct?

And then, perhaps we are pieces of a whole viewing ourselves from different perspectives before reamassing and assimilating.

Either way, at this stage of awareness, it seems that others exist... thank goodness. There's only so many pretty natural scenes to view, or daydreams to ponder without other consciousness to keep one company.

Physical bodies help, too.

Originally posted by yic17
The types of meditation I practiced before were one where I focused on my third eye and another where I listened to my thoughts until they're clear.

i only have my own thoughts from my own journey and its subjective by nature, so with that being said; it seemed that focusing on specific parts of my overall physical system (third eye) led to general imbalance. i focused on them as simultaneaously existing parts of a bigger system. No visualizations or anything like that, simply becoming aware of what was already there in the first place. a clear mind is a result of practice. i see many sources say to clear ones mind as part of meditation, but acceptance of the thoughts as an equally supported part of the larger system is an activity that will clear ones mind as a result. Similar to how a muscle will gain mass with exercise. We dont necessarily exercise our muscles by gaining mass, it is more of a result of the activity than the activity itself.

Perhaps trying again under another context (or method, if you will) could not only help you face your fear, but can show the true value of meditation as an exercise to grow ones perspective, literally. Its all up to you though, obviously, and i will not personally mention it to you again if you are simply not interested in such things right now.

One time I meditated .. the same night I went to sleep .. I fell asleep into the same reality we live in now. Meaning, I woke up thinking I woke up but turns out I was still within my dream. And no, it wasn't just a lucid dream. I had lucid dreams before - this one - it was 100 times more real than a lucid dream. When I woke up from that "dream" which felt just as real as reality - I could not tell if I was awake or still inside a dream (even though I was already in this reality). It was frightening. I know I may sound like a sissy just now - but that experience was really scary. I woke up in complete panic not knowing what's real anymore - or if anything IS ever real.

i think this sleep anomaly can happen regardless of meditation. i know i have had similar dreams when i was a child, before i knew anything about meditation. In one case, it was a loop of waking up into what i thought was the "real world." Took a while to figure out when it was the "right" one Dreams can be a strange thing, and i feel their impact on our lives is more intertwined than generally thought. Things can feel "real" because it is the same brain that processes data when we are awake. i am far from dismissing what you are saying, more that from my experience, it was a dream, but they impact us in more ways than we currently understand.

Other than that experience, usually when I meditate to a deeper state - I felt like there are evil entities trying to stop me from keep going. I know it could be just be my own mind creating fears. But I did have some paranormal (ghost) experiences in the past. Such as I fall into lucid dreams (fully aware) yet I had no control - paralyzed and trapped with dark entities (ghosts) around hurting me physically. Though even those could be just my own mind playing mind games. Uhh no I don't have any history of mental problems or anything. Function perfectly everyday

Anyways, simply I had many negative experiences whenever I meditate too deep that gave me fears of it ... -_-

i think it can be interesting the adversaries we willingly place for ourselves in our lives. That doesnt make it any less of a battle, but i would probably say they are indeed your own mind. Either way, my own solution is the same for both, and that is focusing on being in a state of Love. Not so much the directed emotion everyone is familiar with, but a mindful continuous state from which all actions arise. i think some will also visualize pure white light around them as a form of protection. i think, experientially, the processes are one and the same.

When i personally approach meditation, it is not to achieve something which is not already present (like a deeper state, or higher dimension, etc), but to allow my perspective to grow to include systems that are simultaneously existing with the system of my thought processes (or mind). i started within my own body, then started to include that which happens around me, and eventually redefined/removed the barrier of within/without. i think the mistake i made was in thinking that the universe i had become so jaded to (from consistency) was not part of the "spiritual" matters i wanted to achieve and explore. When, i later learned that such things were always present, the only place they were not is in my own free will perspective.

i will also say that anything that seems "too complicated," probably is. i enjoy the saying that "Every thought and word we use to figure "it" out brings us one step further away from what we seek." The meaning, to this one, is that it is not something which is understood through the thought processes and mind alone, but is to be understood by "being," or the process that makes up the base to the thoughts.

i think that by simply sharing our individual experiences here, we can not only learn more about each other (and how we all face so many of the same challenges) but we tend to learn more about ourselves too, if one is open to it

"How do I know that YOU have consciousness?"

Whenever I use my senses, I have consciousness.
Whenever I sleep, I am unconscious.
Everything else in between is but a dream.

Why can't I think like Einstein? Schrödinger? Or who ever else who were or are geniuses?

If you created all of those... all of reality, then you are are a freaking genius.

This implies a separate reality apart of you and me and everyone else. If there is only one of you, then there are something else creating the reality for you.

Originally posted by Deaf Alien
Why can't I think like Einstein? Schrödinger? Or who ever else who were or are geniuses?

If you created all of those... all of reality, then you are are a freaking genius.

You just made me think of something.

For many/most people (myself included), Einstein or Schrodinger do not fully exist and never fully existed for us as other individuals, because we still don't understand the full scope of their experiences or understandings. Only a necessarily incomplete portion.


When someone "creates their own reality," they just create for themselves representations for these people, that can never account for the full experiences or perspectives of these people, even if we talked to them in person.

reply to post by bsbray11

When someone "creates their own reality," they just create for themselves representations for these people, that can never account for the full experiences or perspectives of these people, even if we talked to them in person.

Do you realize what you are saying? "someone". "themselves" "their perspectives"

What the OP is asking is are they real people? According to the OP it's either just YOU (everything's in your mind) or it's you and "something" else is creating the reality for you.

If it's just YOU (nothing else), then you are a genius. You have to ask yourself this question, why can't you think like Einstein?

Originally posted by Deaf Alien
Why can't I think like Einstein? Schrödinger? Or who ever else who were or are geniuses?

If you created all of those... all of reality, then you are are a freaking genius.

This implies a separate reality apart of you and me and everyone else. If there is only one of you, then there are something else creating the reality for you.

Yes, it's possible. In one of my previous replies I talked about how in a dream, you don't consciously create all the environments, people, and scenarios around you yet they still exist - even if they are beyond what your conscious mind is capable of creating. Which means they are created by the subconscious mind. So even if we cannot consciously think like Einstein, it doesn't mean our subconscious mind cannot. What if the world around me is simply created by my subconscious mind just like in a dream?

Also, do you know that in hypnosis - people are able to become geniuses in mere seconds. Such as people suddenly have the ability to play an instrument without any prior knowledge. Where did the knowledge come from? The subconscious mind I'd say.

Originally posted by Deaf Alien
Do you realize what you are saying? "someone". "themselves" "their perspectives"

Yes.

What the OP is asking is are they real people? According to the OP it's either just YOU (everything's in your mind) or it's you and "something" else is creating the reality for you.

I already posted my position on that earlier, that basically there is no way to prove whether or not other people experience the same consciousness inside their heads as you do, just like you can't prove that what looks "red" to you looks "red" to someone else (maybe it really looks like your "blue" but they learned to call it "red" anyway) etc.

If it's just YOU (nothing else), then you are a genius. You have to ask yourself this question, why can't you think like Einstein?

How do you know that I can't, or that you can't? Or why should I even try, and sacrifice my own individuality?

Your subconscious creates plenty for you without your conscious knowledge already. Many disorders go to show how much information is retained in the subconscious and how powerful it can be. Many psychologists along Jung's line of thought are even convinced that the subconscious is collective of all human experience, or at least the collective experience of an individual's genes/DNA, but certainly not totally unique to every individual.




yic17, looks like you beat me to it, and put it in even more understandable terms.

Sometimes I have the same question op. My hypothesis is, when this occurs, is just a glitch in the matrix to remember us the real self. There is only one consciousness. We are just parts of it. If you want a more solid proof try some substances to dissolve your ego.

Yes, I have a consciousness. And is the same of yours. The difference is that we are in separete bodies. Does it make you feel good? Every living thing has a kind of consciousness. Is good to know that are people who feel the same fellings...

Originally posted by Fiberx
I don't hold any spooky superstitious beliefs, so I can only argue this from my view of logic.

In my view the answer is "complexity". If this was YOUR world, set up to teach you or test you (seems implied by the thought that rest of us are created by your conciousness), it would not need such complexity to achieve those goals. The world is enormous, you will likely not experience 99% of it in your life, there are 7 billion of us, it would be an amazing feat to have a useful interaction with one million people, that's 0.0001428% of humanity.

There are biillions of years of observable history around us, only perhaps 100 of which you will experience (learn anything about yourself from the brontosauras?).

Seems like a waste to me. Besides that, if you are creating the universe, could I have a more comfy bed to sleep on please?

Well, it's possible that consciousness is infinitely powerful that it first shapes the entire universe. Then for the purpose of giving itself a real experience of "reality", it limits itself into one person at a time. So maybe I am the only conscious one right now living in a sandbox world created by the same consciousness. But maybe once my life is over - the consciousness will "play" life again by using YOU as the player. So the universe is not really a waste. It's created so consciousness can play the game forever with different characters in the same world.

Anyways, one way to rephrase my original question would be - is it possible for anyone to prove that there are multiple consciousness in the world? Since one can only realize his/her own consciousness at one time. So I guess it's impossible. But is there any way to find out?

Maybe we only share one consciousness. Just different perspectives, all experiencing it self?

Possibly?

Signed

Consciousness-free auto-bot 2011 (MR Lizard Model v.1.0)

Originally posted by bugasman
Yes, I have a consciousness. And is the same of yours. The difference is that we are in separete bodies.

So is there any way to connect our consciousness then?

And why did consciousness separate itself to zillions of pieces all over the universe? And if our consciousness is really one and the same, shouldn't I (or my consciousness) be able to answer my own previous question?

Since I (my consciousness) cannot, does it mean that maybe consciousness separated all of us and didn't want us to know the truth for the purpose of being able to live in the reality as human beings - for the purpose of experiencing human life?

But if that is the case, shouldn't consciousness wake up for those people (me) who realize itself and want to wake up and know the truth? Since there are billions of people on Earth who are experiencing human life unaware of itself already (for the purpose of experiencing human life without knowing itself). Shouldn't the people who are aware and do not want to play the game anymore just wake up and connect back to the one consciousness?

Or does consciousness want to experience itself QUESTIONING what it is and wanting to wake up but unable to wake up? Anyways, what the heck is consciousness thinking?

Originally posted by yic17

Originally posted by Deaf Alien
Why can't I think like Einstein? Schrödinger? Or who ever else who were or are geniuses?

If you created all of those... all of reality, then you are are a freaking genius.

This implies a separate reality apart of you and me and everyone else. If there is only one of you, then there are something else creating the reality for you.

Yes, it's possible. In one of my previous replies I talked about how in a dream, you don't consciously create all the environments, people, and scenarios around you yet they still exist - even if they are beyond what your conscious mind is capable of creating. Which means they are created by the subconscious mind. So even if we cannot consciously think like Einstein, it doesn't mean our subconscious mind cannot. What if the world around me is simply created by my subconscious mind just like in a dream?

Also, do you know that in hypnosis - people are able to become geniuses in mere seconds. Such as people suddenly have the ability to play an instrument without any prior knowledge. Where did the knowledge come from? The subconscious mind I'd say.

edit on 23-4-2011 by yic17 because: (no reason given)

Then it is YOU and "something else". Correct? Two separate realities.

reply to post by yic17


And I thought I ran myself crazy with questions no one can answer.

Originally posted by yic17
Well, it's possible that consciousness is infinitely powerful that it first shapes the entire universe. Then for the purpose of giving itself a real experience of "reality", it limits itself into one person at a time. So maybe I am the only conscious one right now living in a sandbox world created by the same consciousness. But maybe once my life is over - the consciousness will "play" life again by using YOU as the player. So the universe is not really a waste. It's created so consciousness can play the game forever with different characters in the same world.

This is closer to what I personally believe than anything else. It would basically be exactly what I believe, except I'm a little more agnostic and undecided on the whole issue. It sounds like you are in the same boat, that you are just playing with these ideas too.

The idea of parallel universes, multi-dimensionality, all of that lends credence to this too imo. Maybe when you live again as another person, the entire universe will unfold completely differently, including changes in historical events. A version of the current you may still be there, but having experiences that you won't have in this incarnation, and may not ever have in any incarnation. The complexities of multi-dimensionality seem to allow for these possibilities, there is just not physical, scientific evidence for any of it (that I know of anyway).

The way I think of lives, are like threads of yarn, sometimes intertwining, sometimes going completely opposite directions. Sometimes the threads of yarn may even combine into a single thread during moments of "coherence" and "singularity" and etc., just to split off again into very different realities later. I have no way of knowing any of this so I just play with ideas, but I have had some personal experiences that make me think this have more credence to it.

Anyways, one way to rephrase my original question would be - is it possible for anyone to prove that there are multiple consciousness in the world? Since one can only realize his/her own consciousness at one time. So I guess it's impossible. But is there any way to find out?

This is a great thread and I'm enjoying seeing others grapple with this question.

All I can tell you is that I'd like to have an answer too, but how could anyone give proof for one?

Originally posted by Deaf Alien
Then it is YOU and "something else". Correct? Two separate realities.

Are you a separate entity from your subconscious?

If not, then what you perceive as "something else" may not be "something else" after all.

This may sound like a trivial issue but if you read much Carl Jung, he can explode this point using plenty of clinical cases, to show it is not trivial at all and we are inherently connected in many different ways to our surroundings. What distinguishes the human being from its surroundings is namely its sense of self-awareness, simply the perception of being a separate entity.

reply to post by yic17

And why did consciousness separate itself to zillions of pieces all over the universe? And if our consciousness is really one and the same, shouldn't I (or my consciousness) be able to answer my own previous question?

How is that even possible? You are just you. If you "separated" yourself into pieces, you would still be aware of others. That would be one hell of a multitasking job. Even so, why are you only aware of yourself (in your physical body, or whatever)?

What is funny is I am really in agreement with you.