Israel passes law nixing citizenship for treason

Israel passes law nixing citizenship for treason

www.rawstory.com

JERUSALEM — Israel's Knesset, or parliament, has passed a law which would enable the court system to revoke the citizenship of anyone convicted of spying, treason or helping the enemy during times of war.

The bill, which was passed by 37 to 11 at a late-night session on Monday, was initiated by two Knesset members (MKs) from the ultra-nationalist Yisrael Beitenu party of Israeli Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman.

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On the surface it seems like a reasonable thing for a nation to do. Yet when one examines the complex politics of Israel and the Palestinian situation this new law could have ominous implications for members of Jewish religious and charity groups within Israel that have long reached out to Palestinians in private initiatives that are sometimes humanitarian and sometimes religious in nature.

With the Hamas government labeled conveniently as a terrorist organization and just about any Palestinian able to quickly be labeled a Terrorist through Israeli courts on the flimsiest of evidence it would seem Israel is doing its best to make sure peace doesn’t accidently break out between the peoples it and the Palestinian Authority and Hamas govern.

What’s more with interracial dating in and around the densely populated Jerusalem area between Arabs and Jews long being a cause of concern for the Israeli Government could aiding and providing comfort actually be something as innocuous as a Jewish Woman dating a Palestinian Man?

One might wonder if this new law is designed not just to prevent peaceful relations between Arabs and Jews but is a thinly disguised Racial Purity Law as well.


www.rawstory.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

On the surface it seems like a reasonable thing for a nation to do. Yet when one examines the complex politics of Israel and the Palestinian situation this new law could have ominous implications for members of Jewish religious and charity groups within Israel that have long reached out to Palestinians in private initiatives that are sometimes humanitarian and sometimes religious in nature.

I was thinking the exact same. I can see them using this as a reason to prosecute anyone who helps the Palestinians since Israel is at "war" with the citizens of Gaza and their elected government. This would be a good reason for all Jews against Zionism to get out while they still can. Israel has done their fair share of eradicating any voices or reason in that region. It is so bad that they will not let foreigners who openly disagree with their policies enter the country. It really bothers me that the Israeli government calls themselves the "voice of democracy" in the middle east.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Dear Proto,
My friend you once again voice my thoughts perfectly and succinctly. For such a motion to be passed will surely lead to much wider implications.

I fear things are slowly hotting up.

Regards,
T

Its impossible to revoke citizenship for individuals BORN in countries. They are what they are, and they are where there are. The law would be a psuedo law, and irrelevant. Its not real law, natural law, or common law, its something that doesnt count, artificial crapola.

reply to post by Corruption Exposed


Exactly it seems like one more contrived impedement to peace, knowingly executed as that, while guised in the old we are under attack from every quarter and we must be frightened and fight back.

The United States too has been tinkering with executive presidential decrees that can strip 'domestic terrorists' of their citizenship.

The Government and Media prompts us to identify with those seeming underdogs on the battlefield who face bombs and guns by regimes, but they never seem to mind or mention the ongoing assault on citizens through the courts and the judicial and lawmaking process that effectively kill any vestiges of freedom and independence.

Our governments are becoming increasingly authoritarian and dictatorial in creating the "Loyal" citizen, by essentially trying to strip them of any choice to be disloyal.

Not exactly what democracy is supposed to be.

Just saying

Thanks for posting.

Originally posted by Unity_99
Its impossible to revoke citizenship for individuals BORN in countries. They are what they are, and they are where there are. The law would be a psuedo law, and irrelevant. Its not real law, natural law, or common law, its something that doesnt count, artificial crapola.

edit on 29-3-2011 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)

There was no mechanism for someone to be designated an enemy combatant and held in idefinite detention as a detainee absent a trial or any protections of domestic constitutional law or international laws of war but they sure made one.

Since I can't imagine why say Ireland would want to take a born in America person like me stripped of their citizenship, so that means Guantonomo Bay style internment camps where you just end up imprisoned for life without any legal mechanism to seek freedom or redress from a government operating purely on might makes right domination through armed force.

If military personnel don't want to carry it out, they will just hire some private corporation to oversee the process like they have with many mainland US prisons already.

The law just doesn't much enter into it when you have six goons in full body armor and automatic weapons tasering you.

But hey it's a nice thought to keep in mind until they come for us!

Thanks.

Originally posted by torqpoc
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Dear Proto,
My friend you once again voice my thoughts perfectly and succinctly. For such a motion to be passed will surely lead to much wider implications.

I fear things are slowly hotting up.

Regards,
T

Yeah it just wouldn't do to have people of concious accidently picking the wrong side as the overly militant governments of the world begin their quest for more land, more resources, and more law and order.

It's basically an attempt at intimidation and a reminder to stay on the state's line or that there are going to be repurcussions and consequences.

But hey they won't stone you for being Gay in Israel so you are really better off there as the shining jewel of the Middle East.

And sadly that's a line that supporters of this will throw out.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
On the surface it seems like a reasonable thing for a nation to do.

It is a reasonable thing to do. Except for people who would love to see Israel destroyed.

Yet when one examines the complex politics of Israel and the Palestinian situation this new law could have ominous implications for members of Jewish religious and charity groups within Israel that have long reached out to Palestinians in private initiatives that are sometimes humanitarian and sometimes religious in nature.

The biggest donor and benefactor to Palestinians is....you'd have never guessed it...Israel. Even before their own Government. Without Israel Palestinians would be just as poor as their Jordanian or Egyptian friends.

With the Hamas government labeled conveniently as a terrorist organization

With this statement you are conveniently neglecting that the Hamas are the type of people that use children as human shields and send children strapped with bombs to Israeli hospitals.

What’s more with interracial dating in and around the densely populated Jerusalem area between Arabs and Jews long being a cause of concern for the Israeli Government could aiding and providing comfort actually be something as innocuous as a Jewish Woman dating a Palestinian Man?

You seem to have forgotten that its the Israeli side that allows the dating to happen, because Israel is a democractic country. Dating on the Palestinian side can easily result in the woman being stoned.

I would think that "proof" of spying or treason would have to be presented in a court of law. Whether or not you agree with Israel's foreign policy, you must recognize the fact that it is NOT a dictatorship; Israel is a functioning democracy and conducts its internal affairs under the rule of law. I seriously doubt that dating a Muslim or performing TRUE charity work on behalf of the Palestinians would qualify.

That being said, anyone convicted of spying, treason, or providing aid and comfort to the enemy should be taken out behind the courthouse and SHOT - in ANY country. Having your citizenship revoked is a kindness.

And regardless of what bile Jew-haters spew, Israel is NOT at war with the people of Gaza, even though the charter of the Hamas government calls for the utter destruction of Israel. If they were, there would be nobody left to complain about it. The Israeli military is more than capable of pushing every Arab out of the West Bank and Gaza Strip anytime they want, and surrounding Arab countries wouldn't do a thing about it.

Notice I used the word "Wouldn't." Arab countries COULDN'T do anything about it even if they wanted to - Israel has handed the Arabs their own butts every time she has been invaded - but even if they could, they wouldn't. Why? The answer is simple.

I'm not talking now about the ordinary people of Gaza - the farmers, fishermen, etc., - but rather their government. Since Israel was born in 1948, every government the Palestinians have had has been extremely corrupt. Not only that, but they have a history of attacking the governments of their host countries - not just Israel.

When Jordan had a large Palestinian refugee community, they tried to absorb them into the country as their "Arab brothers," providing them with shelter and food. How did the Palestinians repay that kindness? By trying to seize control of the Jordanian government: BLACK SEPTEMBER.

When the Palestinians were expelled from Jordan, the (PLO) tried to do the same thing in Lebanon, creating a state within a state and eventually making moves on the central government in Beirut. Their tactics were so brutal that when the Israelis invaded to oust the PLO - which was conducting its own little war on Israel's northern border - the Israelis were actually seen as liberators by many of the Lebanese. Beirut HAD been a beautiful city before the PLO took over and started fighting EVERYONE from Jews, to Phalangists, and even rival Arab groups like Hezbollah. THE PLO IN LEBANON

The PLO brought UTTER RUIN to Lebanon, and their successors are even worse. There is NO Arab nation that wants to have anything to do with the Palestinians, except to use their plight as a propaganda tool against Israel. They have seen, and experienced, what happens when Arab governments try to really help the Palestinians - and they want NO part of it.

reply to post by lucid eyes


Welcome back "ziotroll" haven't seen you since your "Voices of Palestine" thread.

Did you get tired of trolling that thread so you decided to come here and troll this one instead?

The biggest donor and benefactor to Palestinians is....you'd have never guessed it...Israel. Even before their own Government. Without Israel Palestinians would be just as poor as their Jordanian or Egyptian friends.

You are forgetting that the only reason Israel is the main provider of aide is because Israel has the blockade implemented and they allow very few other countries to provide aide. They consider strawberry jam as contraband. Do you have a good explanation for that?

Originally posted by Corruption Exposed

Welcome back "ziotroll" haven't seen you since your "Voices of Palestine" thread.

Yes, and wasnt it wonderful? Isnt it important to give Palestinians a voice too, so that the world and future Generations can get to know something about a culture that is often misunderstood in the West?

You are forgetting that the only reason Israel is the main provider of aide is because Israel has the blockade implemented and they allow very few other countries to provide aide. They consider strawberry jam as contraband. Do you have a good explanation for that?

These are simple security precautions in an area full of enemies. Plenty of humanitarian aid has made it to Palestine. But even before that...did you know that Israel gave Palestine plumbing, infrastructure, roads, buildings?

reply to post by Corruption Exposed

You are forgetting that the only reason Israel is the main provider of aide is because Israel has the blockade implemented and they allow very few other countries to provide aide. They consider strawberry jam as contraband. Do you have a good explanation for that?

She seems to also be forgetting that the money and aide Israel gives to the Palestinians is first pretty much extorted through the American people through some process that would have many Americans claiming our politicians are acting in treasonous ways by awarding it and so many weapons to Israel.

Some of those politicians being dual citizens of Israel and the United States.

Now it would seem to me if a State like Israel wants absolute Loyalty to it, then having dual citizenship and allegiances to other nations would be counter productive to that.

But because most of the world's Jews do not want to live in Israel, and LucidEyes is no exception there, the Israeli Government allows it's citizens to have dual citizenship to effectively cook the books and make it seem on paper (probably for aide purposes) to be much more greatly populated than it actually is.

Still it would seem to me that those Americans especially those Americans with dual Israeli/American citizenship who are all too happy to focus on AIPAC related causes are putting Israel before the United States and are committing treason.

So while we will no doubt have the Israeli Internet Defense Force all over this thread spinning it's usual dogmas, they will as always manage to avoid the admission of or any reference to the hypocracy involved in Israel's policies and the United State's as well for that matter.

Personally I feel it best not to feed the trolls.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

So while we will no doubt have the Israeli Internet Defense Force all over this thread spinning it's usual dogmas,

You really do think your internet postings warrant the IDF itself to come after you?

This might help.

And why are you so angry that the U.S. and Israel, two forces of democracy and freedom, cooperate and work so closely together? On second thought, I dont want to know.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler



You do realize that if you are convicted of spying, treason, or aiding the enemy in a time of war in Yisrael . . . citizenship is the least of your worries, right? You will be imprisoned and potentially could be served the death penalty, though chances are they'd back off from the death penalty.
Now, I'd like to play Devil's Advocate with you . . . at least, until I have to go to work.

Why should those who are convicted of aiding and abetting the enemy during war, treason, terrorism, and spying not be punished by the removal of citizenship? They obviously do not have the interests of the nation at heart, so they should not be granted the benefits of being a citizen.

You brought up marriage between Jews and Arabs, yet that is not illegal in Yisrael - they can still have a common-law marriage, or a civil marriage outside of the state that will be recognized within.

With the Hamas government labeled conveniently as a terrorist organization and just about any Palestinian able to quickly be labeled a Terrorist through Israeli courts on the flimsiest of evidence it would seem Israel is doing its best to make sure peace doesn’t accidently break out between the peoples it and the Palestinian Authority and Hamas govern.

Are you kidding me? Go read Hama's charter and what their goals are. For those who don't feel like it;

Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it."

There is a little snippet. It also declares Jihad, and this can be seen in their actions. I can assure you that peace will not "accidentally break out" between the Jewish people and Hamas.


Edit to Add;

So while we will no doubt have the Israeli Internet Defense Force all over this thread spinning it's usual dogmas, they will as always manage to avoid the admission of or any reference to the hypocracy involved in Israel's policies and the United State's as well for that matter.

Personally I feel it best not to feed the trolls.

Trolls because we think you are wrong? Lol. There is absolutely nothing hypocritical about this law that you've brought up, it is completely reasonable for any country to do.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Before I begin, please understand readers that equating Jewish with Israel is incorrect.

If they are a truly democratic state and not a blatantly racist state, then it is not possible to equate one with the other.
The only situation that would present a Jewish Israel is if the were a blatantly racist state; therefore, criticizing Israel, if it is a "democratic" state, is not the same as picking on Jewish people.

I don't know how long I will last in this thread Proto, but I already see the game plan on how it will be attacked, and you and I don't have the best history of being in the same thread with this topic.

Their is no peace between the Palestinians and Jews. It will not happen.
Both parties spit venom at the near mention of the other.

I happen to feel more sorry for the Palestinians because they seem to be reactive, whereas Israel likes to instigate situations.
Every action that the leaders of the state of Israel have taken since its inception in 1948 has had, at its heart, the end result of a complete take over of all land between the two rivers.

Thus the flag of Israel.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/a2ce6b757a37.png[/atsimg]

I can only think of one state that rivals America in its brazen show of obvious gusto that continually reeks of lies and deceptions, and that is Israel.

I think that more people are beginning to finally break the "anti-semitic" voodoo brain wash, and wake up to the reality around them.
Individuals who blindly criticize one group of people are incorrect.
It does not serve to describe the groups individual behavior correctly, but...

When a government begins to label certain people as undesirable, and treason charges can result from feelings of dissent and not treason or racial laws are made to repress a certain population, then that my friend is tyranny.

reply to post by lucid eyes

Plenty of humanitarian aid has made it to Palestine. But even before that...did you know that Israel gave Palestine plumbing, infrastructure, roads, buildings?

It's the least they can do after stealing their land and confining them to a small space equivalent to a cage. And as other members have mentioned this was probably American tax dollars at work.

reply to post by OldCorp

I'm not talking now about the ordinary people of Gaza - the farmers, fishermen, etc., - but rather their government. Since Israel was born in 1948, every government the Palestinians have had has been extremely corrupt. Not only that, but they have a history of attacking the governments of their host countries - not just Israel.

Are you actually trying to say that Israel is the "host country" to the Palestinians.

That is some serious disinformation. And brazen as heck of you.

If I could give applause for having the gusto to speak such lies, then I would a million times over.

The Palestinians had control of that land for a thousand years before the Balfour Declaration.

But now Israel is "host country" because the leaders of Israel have usurped a religion and interpreted its religious book, incorrectly I might add, to lead them to think that they are the chosen people and the Middle East is their land.
And they can take it by force and they are the host.

Sounds more to me like a parasite that won and took over the host's body.

War is peace.
Freedom is slavery.

I really hope that people reading can see this and it is not just me.

reply to post by Josephus23


One of the problems I have personally with the Israeli Propagandists and Appologists is this insane notion that they have a democracy in Israel.

There is no Democracy on the entire planet, Democracy being defined by the Greeks as everyone having a say in every issue.

No country on earth including the USA has a true democracy and Israel much like the USA simply has a parlimentary system elected at large by the people but then corrupted by and directed by corporations and special interests and not the people, in a government that could be best described under the RICO Act as an ongoing and continuous criminal enterprise.

While with one ill thoughout out stroke of the pen some posters would say because Israel is a democracy Jewish Men and Women are freer to date Palestinian Men and Women as they don't face stoning, they neglect to now consider that what Israelis now face thanks to their pseudo democracy is being stripped of their citizenship.

Wow!

None of us live in true democracies, and one of the reasons none of our nations is utilizing technology that would allow us to become true democracies is this insane notion that nations like Israel and the United States already are democracies.

We aren't our only limited say as citizens is who a handful of the people will be in elected positions within government.

That's not democracy that's a representative republic and it becomes clearer and clearer at least to the people in the United States the officials of our republic don't represent the interests of the average person at all.

You make some great points Proto, but I would say most of that is indicative of america and europe rather than the nation of israel. While Israel has grossly and cowardly over-reacted to hamas aggression several times, I still believe arab palestinians are instigating the hostility with their own cowardly actions. Not policing the fanatics enough and convincing the population "all jews into the sea" while the gazans voted for hamas in the first place.

Palestinians should have realised a long time ago that they will never raise a palestinian flag WITHIN the nation of Israel and that they should have accepted that Israel is primarily for jews, gotten an israeli passport and gone on with their daily lives. Thats what the minority christians have been doing all along. How come Isreali christians don't make a big fuss about it?

Arabs control 95% of the middle east, never mind northern africa, asia, etc. Why can't they allow the jews who have been there all along, thousands of years ago, to have their own country? It just does NOT make sense to me one bit!

Would I be cynical in suggesting that the balfour declaration by the british was a pretext for WW3, especially in light of what pike and mazzini have allegedly said? And why does everyone focus on Israel when mass genocide in rhwanda and southern sudan go largely unnoticed? No offense, I am just trying to be objective here.....