A Question for ATS Masons, What is a Ster-convex

[I ran across an interesting article today Science Daily of some published results of the testing of hundreds of musical scales that revealed a common geometry in them not thought to exist.

ScienceDaily (Mar. 25, 2011) — Researchers at the Institute for Logic, Language and Computation (ILLC) of the University of Amsterdam have discovered a universal property of musical scales. Until now it was assumed that the only thing scales throughout the world have in common is the octave.

The many hundreds of scales, however, seem to possess a deeper commonality: if their tones are compared in a two- or three-dimensional way by means of a coordinate system, they form convex or star-convex structures. Convex structures are patterns without indentations or holes, such as a circle, square or oval.

www.sciencedaily.com...

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/61240a13d44e.jpg[/atsimg]

As a life long musician and conspiracy theorist I have often wondered if there are certain properties to music that go beyond simply the artistic and entertaining ones.

Part of this stems from some Indian religious teachings where the universe itself was created from a musical note, its vibration and noise causing chaos in the otherwise silent and peaceful nothingness of endless empty space, prompting an angry reaction in which life was born.

However additionally I have often been amazed when it comes to some instrumental pieces I have heard for the first time, that while listening to it, my minds eye and emotions conjured up images that later turned out to be what the song was all about when I learned it’s title.

Without words themselves music itself seems to sometimes speak a universally recognized message in that fashion.

Additionally much like the Medical Staff the Musical Staff that precedes every score is somewhat reminiscent of a strand of DNA in its artistic wrap around the pole curves.

So this study revealing some common geometry in music is quite intriguing to me.

I just have one little problem in the Geometry isn’t my strong suit.

In fact I don’t even own a suit!

there was a thread on this like 2 days ago, as a musician i find it very interesting.

but uhhhh how does it have anything to do with masons?

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


It says that the only interval in common between scales is the octave...

If that is true, then it must not be true, because if the octaves were common among scales, so would be the tritone, or flat5, the note that dissects the diatonic.

I could be misunderstanding, because I don't have time to read the full article now. That's just my first impression. I'll check this out later.

reply to post by SIKKAthanMOST


Yeah they understand sacred geometry, the golden mean and all those things. They might be able to add something interesting to this, that the average person might not.

Further the Masons are builders in theory and understand about building block structures like you find in Music.

So I am real interested if any of them have a take on this that they would like to share.

It's the old "ask and thou recieve" thing.

Thanks.

Well, since most of the guys in my lodge are tone-deaf, I am afraid I can't help you out much there,

Not much along the musical conspiracy lines...

Originally posted by lo7s3v3n7ol
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

It says that the only interval in common between scales is the octave...

If that is true, then it must not be true, because if the octaves were common among scales, so would be the tritone, or flat5, the note that dissects the diatonic.

I could be misunderstanding, because I don't have time to read the full article now. That's just my first impression. I'll check this out later.

I confess it all does seem a little confusing, as far as understanding the basic geometry of it all I am hoping maybe one or some of the site's Masons can shed a little more light on this.

Music itself is all about structural rudiments so I am thinking maybe learning some of the geometrical rudiments involved might help lay out a better foundation for anyone interested in this.

Originally posted by YourPopRock
Well, since most of the guys in my lodge are tone-deaf, I am afraid I can't help you out much there,

Not much along the musical conspiracy lines...

Well hey, thanks for responding. I don't think it's so much about the tone but more about if there are any anomilies in nature that are associated wth the Ster-convex, what signifigance if any when they naturally occur and naturally occur frequently.

I still think it's incumbent on the Masons, Elks, Moose etc to at least have one Barbershop Quartet per lodge though!

I think you could assume that the Masons would have some interest in the mathematics of music, considering that Pythagoras invented it. Was it not he that also defined the golden ratio? Interesting to note that the Catholics actually banned the use of the tritone in music written in the medieval era because they were convinced the interval would summon demons. If you were found to write counterpoint with the use of a tritone, you would be burned as a heretic.

In all sincerity, as a lover of music and as a Mason, I will look into it for you (and for me also, as my interest is piqued).

If I find something that is knowledge I am permitted by my obligation to disseminate, I will let you know.

Originally posted by YourPopRock
In all sincerity, as a lover of music and as a Mason, I will look into it for you (and for me also, as my interest is piqued).

If I find something that is knowledge I am permitted by my obligation to disseminate, I will let you know.

Thanks I appreciate that. I sure am not asking anyone to divulge any secrets of Masonry but I am under the impression a lot of study of geometry is involved, something many of us find well both boring and challenging, so I am hoping one of the erstwhile brothers might be indulgent and kind enough to maybe outline the Ster-convex for us.

What if any signifigance it might have mathematically, spirtually, universally etc.

Great of you to share.

Thanks.

Originally posted by lo7s3v3n7ol
I think you could assume that the Masons would have some interest in the mathematics of music, considering that Pythagoras invented it. Was it not he that also defined the golden ratio? Interesting to note that the Catholics actually banned the use of the tritone in music written in the medieval era because they were convinced the interval would summon demons. If you were found to write counterpoint with the use of a tritone, you would be burned as a heretic.

In the Hindu Sanskrit religion they believe the conch shell was used to capture the first primordial note that gave birth to the Universe and drove the demons mad with rage.

To this day Hindus and Buddhists blow the conch shell to ward off demons.

Interestingly enough the conch shell is made of argonite a substance 10 times stronger than ceramics and the mollusk itself uses the golden mean in how it builds and adds additions to the shell using an expert degree of masonry in the process.

So there are a lot of interesting elements involved in music, beliefs about music and notes, and the mathematics involved in possibly capturing them through instruments both natural like the conch and man made instruments, and how music is structured.

I am not sure how interesting Masons find this or what they may or may not know about these things, but it never hurts to ask.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Yeah they understand sacred geometry, the golden mean and all those things.

Actually, most Masons are completely oblivious to such things. This is pretty much the average Mason's Masonic activities:

Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Yeah they understand sacred geometry, the golden mean and all those things.

Actually, most Masons are completely oblivious to such things. This is pretty much the average Mason's Masonic activities:

Come on now are you going to tell me it didn't take NASA like scientific equations to fit all those big men into those tiny little cars?

Surely you jest!

I'm pretty sure that what it all comes down to is that you see what you want to see, and you hear what you want to hear. Patterns recur in nature... naturally. Patterns are bound to emerge when we define nature with a system of patterns that a human being arbitrarily invented, such as mathematics. If we apply more math to nature, more patterns will reveal themselves, not for the pattern in that exists in nature, but for the pattern by which we observe and define it.

If so far we have examined musical scales in a linear, two-dimensional manner, it would only make sense that patterns would emerge to a greater degree if we then examine them in a logarithmic or multi-dimensional way. No different than defining a number prime, squared, or cubed and so on...

The Golden Ratio, for example, was not invented, but observed in nature. The reason for it's prevalence in nature is due to the way that gravity acts on living objects on earth, namely trees. Is it any wonder why a human fits through a doorway so well? If we want to truly observe nature, we should learn to unobserve it, rather than place it in this crude box which is mathematics.

reply to post by lo7s3v3n7ol


Well I think one of the things that the casual observer of nature has discovered through it is mathematics.

I am not looking specifically for mathematics to define this anomaly but to rather better understand what arguably one part of it is.

So that’s why I ask the question, every little bit and angle helps if you truly want to better understand something.

Thanks.

Try searching for "Tone Color Alchemy Project" on the web, some of us have gotten much farther than our original expectations. Beyond math being the universal language "I personally believe sound is the word of the maker."

As some describes the building of many megalithic places as saying "they used words of power." And just read the story about coral castle. There is much more yet to be uncovered by us for us.

reply to post by RenoKnows


I will be sure to check that out. I have long suspected that music, and musical notes play a little known but perhaps premier part in understanding life and the universe and creation.

The Coral Castle certainly is an amazing engineering achievement to be completed by one man. To this day the part of Miami it was built in is still very sparsely populated so you couldn't have picked a much more remote location to achieve something extroidinary away from prying eyes.

Chorus...coral? Could there be a connection there?

I would not at all be surprised to see in the future that we develop technology to dampen inertial forces and even defy gravity with harmonics. I think it would be pretty loud, though.

When I look at that star shape, and how it's not a symmetrical star, I think of the center being the tonal center, and the arms of the star being the intervals. It would seem that each key might have a slightly different shape. It think it would be interesting to see visual representations of the different modalities, considering that in a key, they would all have the same tonal center, but with intervals differing slightly.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Hi Proto,

I don't think there is any Masonic teaching particularly about sound, but Masons have lost a lot of our knowledge due to sloppy floorwork. There are secrets passed down that are intended to be "learned" but not "communicated." That is, we never teach the secrets to one another, we just learn them through experience in the Lodge. Since most lodges these days are prettly sloppily run, there is no chance to absorbe that knowledge.

I think one could spend 100's of hours on the following links, and spend a lifetime in the study of Masonry, and if things could be recreated as intended, perhaps we would discover "that which cannot be taught."

Just for starters......

'a living canon of proportion, formed after the perfect model of the cosmos'. He points to the (supposed) state of the understanding of astronomical facts in 1600 when Bruno was burned at the stake for proclaiming the sun to be the center of the system.

"The tradition of the kabbalists and gnostics is not merely a collection of facts or beliefs jealously guarded by masonic and other hermetic groups, but consists of a method whereby certain incommunicable knowledge can be gained through a course of study in preparation for induced moments of perception, in which aspects of the hidden universe stand out clear and orderly to the inner mind... Revelation comes to those who invoke it through intense studies and a lively curiosity of mind."

Short note to introduce the notion that the Mysteries surrounding ancient Masonry were more than just astronomy. While geometry and astronomy went hand in hand as far as the 'measure' of the orderly universe, they were connected through legends to what we call the soul's journey. The Greeks taught that we came from and returned to the stars via seven planetary spheres. If we include the stars at the top and the earth at the bottom, we have a total of nine spheres, arks, arcs, or arches. OUR TEMPLE reflects all of this. THE TEMPLE is a library of the sciences.

Masonic Floor Work -- Main Site
Page 2 with an animated layout at the top. This is important.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
I don't think there is any Masonic teaching particularly about sound

How quickly we forget the lessons of the 2nd degree...

Music is that elevated science which affects the passions by sound. There are few who have not felt its charms and acknowledged its expressions to be intelligible to the heart. It is a language of delightful sensations, far more eloquent than words; it breathes to the ear the clearest intimations; it touches, and gently agitates the agreeable and sublime passions; it wraps us in melancholy, and elevates us in joy; it dissolves and inflames; it melts us in tenderness and excites to war. This science is truly congenial to the nature of man, for, by its powerful charms, the most discordant passions may be harmonized and brought into perfect unison, but it never sounds with such seraphic harmony as when employed in singing hymns of gratitude to the Creator of the Universe.

I'll read the article of the OP in a bit. I'm actually working on some pythagorean interval music programming right now, so it will be interesting to see what they have to say on the subject...