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“Democracy in Iraq will take up to 30 years”

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posted on Mar, 23 2003 @ 06:42 AM
The United States has neither the will nor the ability to bring democracy to Iraq, according to Middle East specialist Arnold Hottinger :

posted on Mar, 23 2003 @ 07:47 AM
I think that could change if people are willing to liberate the oppressed minds of Iraq. There must be many who are ruled through hatred, religion, or cultural differences, therefore effectively destroying all hopes for peace among those that are ruled in such ways.

If we were to teach those people things about the virtue of humanity and the sake of sacrifice then maybe there could be hope. To me it is all political, but I know the picuture will be distorted by the radicals, people like Mullah Krekar. I am so happy that we gave his Al-Ansar thugs some of their own medicine. I hope they like cruise missles on top of their training camps.

posted on Mar, 23 2003 @ 08:06 AM
Nans, are you sitting down? This is going to blow you away!
I agree with Mr. Hottinger.

The Iraqi people that have been liberated so far have rejoiced, but what is there to make me believe they will embrace democracy? They didn't fight for liberty, they didn't pay the price to obtain it, therefore it is cheap to them. It'll be thrown away long before thirty years.

Do you agree, Nans?

posted on Mar, 23 2003 @ 07:09 PM
Germany is still occupied by America, so that they do not throw away their Democracy for the same reason.

(If you don't call the military presence we kept there, granted conveniently against the soviets but still, occupation, then call it what you will, our presence is still heavily felt there)

It was said we wouldn't know if we have won WW2 until 50 years have gone by, and the Germans are still democratic.

Well 50 years have gone by, and we've won it should seem.

Same thing in Iraq.

We will always have to have a presence there.

It's a shame the ignorant liberals won't understand.

posted on Mar, 23 2003 @ 07:20 PM
I am going to say some thing that is not popular with many people because it is not politically correct or they are ignorant- The gift of a democracy is different than that of a democracy that was fought for because they had no part in it sure. But the main reason that they will not accept democracy is because of their religion. Islam is in itself anti-democratic. One of their beliefs is that Allahs will is not fufilled until everyone is "under the house of Allah". You are either against them or with them, there is no in between. unless the roots of hate and anti westernism are removed, the seeds of democracy will not grow.

posted on Mar, 23 2003 @ 07:41 PM
Well one can argue Catholicism is anti-democratic, I mean look at the Pope for instance.

But Kennedy proved them wrong.

posted on Mar, 24 2003 @ 07:32 AM
For hundreds (in some cases thousands) of years...most middle eastern societies (including Iraq) are used to a single strong leader. If done in a way (i.e. strong president) that is in keeping with this, then democracy will occur. It will take years, but likely not 30. I'll say about 10. Their biggest surprise will be when they don't have to put their names and addresses on the ballot!

posted on Mar, 24 2003 @ 07:11 PM
Correct Gazrok, but for Thousands of years Germany was ruled by an "elite" class, or a single dictator.

All they'll need is us babysitting them for a time and they'll be fine.

I do think Gazrok, the biggest challenge, is not a single strong leader, but to get the tribes leaders to calm down.

Lawrence tried to unite the tribes of Arabia in Damascus, and they practically killed eachother instead of "Compromising".

But a lot has changed since then, they should be ready now.

posted on Mar, 25 2003 @ 03:44 PM
the plan for "Regime change." will set up a system of 12 different tribal states within Iraq. So can anyone say Afghanistan??? I wonder if Bin Laden is on the move to take over Iraq??? I wonder who else would??? For some reason, I keep hearing "Russians" over and over in my head. Does it not make sense??? I think it does. What do you think???

Has anyone else heard of this plan, and has anyone else thought of Russian involvement in the aftermath years??? This to me is the ultimate prize for Mother Russia.

posted on Mar, 25 2003 @ 03:51 PM
I only hope you aren't right... The plan for Afghanistan likewise needs some revamping, or we're setting ourselves up for a Taliban-like government all over again...

posted on Mar, 25 2003 @ 03:55 PM
An iraqi said that the leaders supported by America have bad histories, they killed many people, and this is known by all iraqis.

So any govt set up in Iraq will not be accepted because of their collaborator taint, and the personal history committed by the people.

Although they would like democracy it is impossable with their culture and mindset, europe took 500 years to reach the level of wanting and accepting democracy, look how difficult it has been until recently to keep it.

Democracy is only a recent invention, its not the default govt for all people, its only 150 years old. Strong leaders have rulled countires for most of our civilization. People without education will not easily change...

posted on Mar, 25 2003 @ 04:32 PM
the idea of democracy is new and still being experimented with by us in America and in Britian. The idea that such freedom of political safety for all is not considerable reasonable for the for the portion of today's civil and ethic groups. If people have crusades against one another, on the basis of political opinions or in religious thought, then no such civil system can occur. Not one governed by democratic ideals. I see that decline in democracy here in America when people accuse one another of being collaberators, and enemies of the state. I also see that here on these boards, from people I talk to. I think that type of persecution will lead to America's downfall.

As for democracy right now in America, well I think that is a joke as long as the 2000 election was stolen from the people. That election was rigged. The real results were not good enough for us. We had to have the way of the snake.

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