ATS Street View: 11: Abortion and Racism in New York City

With all the people in NYC, how come the same ones keep showing up in Street View time after time. Is this scripted? Are these actors?

People of this planet, must understand it is wrong, inefficient and a waste of your own time trying to control other peoples lives and morals. Anti-abortion and anti-drug laws are both petty laws and an inefficient allocation of resources. At the end of the day, people are going to do what they want, if they really want to, no matter what. Laws only stop a marganalised minority from avoiding what some may deem as socially undersiable behaviour. Every person should have the right to their ow body and should have a right to choose what they do and how they use their own body. If I was a woman, I would never get an abortion unless it was necassary for my survival or if the world the child is to be brung up in is unfit for it, but at the same time I would never judge someone for getting an abortion or stop someone from getting an abortion. As for the issue of racism with that particular bilboard, I beleieve their intentions weren't to offend or provoke. Unfortunately like we have seen in the past, it just came out that way.

At first, I didn't understand what the billboard was trying to say. I figured it was something about stray bullets in drive-by shootings or something. Then I watched the video and saw that the message was supposed to be that African Americans had the highest percentage of abortions, and I was still like "so what?" I mean, some race had to be at the top of that list. Would it matter more or less if it had been Hispanics or Eskimos or any other race?

You know, you're going to find racists anywhere you go. I think large cities, by their very nature, magnify the problem. How many people that were interviewed actually saw the sign? Most heard about it from the news, which gave that billboard a lot more exposure than it would have had during its short run. Now people who never saw the sign have an opinion about it.

I got a good laugh from the guy at the 2:00 mark. "I believe that a woman has the right to her own body, Habeus Corpus."

100% of all abortions in America are done on women in America

reply to post by VictorVonDoom


Well besides the guy's ignorance of Habius Corpus, the issue is that abortion was explicitly allowed to pass to control minority and mixed birth rates, which the administration at the time viewed as abominations. Another swell hello from Nixon.

Besides that, the fact is the right to her body started when she chose to have sex. The right to both people's bodies in the creation of that life was made by using protection or not. If they failed after all that, then there is something known as accepting known risks. If a life comes from your freedoms, it has the same rights as you. If rights are violated in its creation, it cannot have rights.

Dear ATS Reader,
Eeech what touchy subjects huh? Well i'm going to dive right in and state my views and opinions on both.

Racism: This is actually simple human nature and comes from our base animal instincts and is ingrained in a somewhat deeper way by society, history and parenting. It is not unusual for an individual of a specific skin tone, religion, social group to not understand a polar opposite to themselves. I'm going to use examples here because it is far easier than talking in a general sense. Let's take (for the sake of this discussion) black versus white, or African versus caucasian if you prefer. There are simple base differences between how the two races developed, the underlying social system and beliefs, hence when you ask a caucasian who has had zero exposure to an African what they think of that person their basis for comparison is void, it is nigh on impossible for them to make comparisons or even understand fully the differences. When you add centuries of historical racism on top of that, the natural response is one of "what I don't understand, I dislike". This is stupid, yes.. but it is simple psychology. If you want a much simpler example go to a kindergarden and watch out a child with a "difference" is treated by the other children who fall into a majority group. Even at the age of 3, we as humans can already discern between what we "know" and what we do not "know". Sadly education and parenting push the dislike for things we do not know or understand even further. Specific groups are atrocious in this respect. Is it right to be apprehensive of what you do not understand, I personally think it is, however that doesn't mean it cannot be changed and should not be changed. The problem is that modern society does not wish you to change, they promote hatred and racism in huge quantities on the TV, newspapers and pretty much everywhere you are exposed to.

The difference between racism and national socialism is one which should also be addressed. For those who are not aware the Nazi party in Germany during the Third Reich was primarily based on National Socialism. The belief that the people of a country should fight for their country, supremacy and culture against invaders. This, in my opinion, is the biggest cause of racism in today's world. I have lived in France, currently live in the UK and the number of people who hate the "muslim, africans, indians, polish etc.." is vast. The reasoning behind it has nothing to do with those specific people, in most cases anyway. It is simply a question of economics and perceived changes in the political system. When you are living in a modern family (couple, married, 2.2 kids etc..) and hear that a family of immigrants with 7 kids are living in a 2million pound house funded by the government and not working, it is hard to find a way to justify that, the natural response is of course to be predisposed to racism in a social context. I for one am fervently against immigration in vast terms. I think it destablises a country based on the political, welfare and social system. Some cultures simply do not mix, some cultures actually don't wish to mix; they are, through no real fault of their own, simply after a better life.

Onto the next topic, abortion.

This is one I have personal experience with as my partner recently had an abortion. I will not go into the reasons we both chose, but I will simply add that had we not had the choice to do so, I would have moved country in a heart beat. I must now state I am totally against all forms of religion, again the reasons for that don't need to be explained here but the topic of religion needs to be addressed. It is the belief of some, the vast majority of them falling into the Catholic/Christian group that abortion is murder. It is also the belief that all pregnancies should come to full term and the child be given the chance at life. I am going to focus on that and only that here.
The statement that abortion is murder is simply moronic. I have read all the scientific papers about the development of a fetus and I am sorry but up to a certain point that fetus is no more aware of it's existense than a vegetable (here come the vegans wishing to string me up and lash me!). It is also, in my opinion, noones business what a woman should or should not do with the life she has created. It is not through the act of God that a child is created, I know.. some would argue but again let's not go down this road. The simple act of procreation is due to the fact we are mammals, not inspired by a divine being overseeing the act and ensuring that specific sperm makes it to that specific ovum. I digress somewhat but I think it needs to be stated, people were having children before anyone was Catholic and people will be having children when religion is gone.
The somewhat blinkered arrogance of those religious groups is what I want to discuss here. When I read about children being born into poverty, disease and harm simply because the parents are fervent Christians it makes my blood boil. The premise that all children should be given a chance at life is wrong. If you are truly religious and truly Christian you should also be aware of the life you are forcing that child into. No child is going to have a good life when the mother is riddled with AIDS and living the life of a prostitute in a destitute country now are they? Similarly for other parts of the world and other social situations. What is ridiculous is the total lack of thought in the overiding desire to please the scriptures and the Pope.
It is a personal choice, not a religious one. It is a social choice, not a religious one.

Those are my views and my opinions.

Regards,
T

I just really wish we could scrape the world clean and give it a clean slate. Racism all in all is stupid. Just dumb. Why in the world people would voluntarily contribute to the misery of others is disgusting and distasteful.

Note on the term African American: I always wondered where the term Caucasian came from, but any who why not refer to blacks as Somolian-American or Morrocan-American. Oh that's right they couldn't because they forgot to stamp what tribe Africans were stolen from! Thank you slavery.

As and abortion, it depends on the beliefs and opinions of the people it matters the most to. Some people don't consider it alive until it reaches a certain term. I believe in the right for a woman to choose. It wasn't to long ago when certain countries would use infanticide to control a population, now that it's actually legal in some places people want to do something about it now? Too late. Let's just focus on the people who are already here to take care of.

reply to post by hardamber


Martin Luther Kings niece, Alveda King, and many other African American anti abortion activist compare it to genocide of the African American race, because of the higher percentages, when compared to other races.

She calls abortion “womb lynching” and says she is continuing her uncle’s fight for civil rights and pursuing his dream of racial equality.

www.blackgenocide.org...

www.sj-r.com...

reply to post by Gorman91

If a life comes from your freedoms, it has the same rights as you. If rights are violated in its creation, it cannot have rights.

How so? Either something already IS a human person, then it has the same rights as you, and you cannot kill it if its not directly endangering your life (by your logic we could kill even infants born from rape, they are older, but rights were still violated during their conception, so they cannot have rights too - you never included age in your logic, otherwise you will have to agree that fetuses cannot have the same rights as born humans), or something IS NOT a human person, then you can kill it for whatever reason you deem necessary, even economic ones (like we kill animals).

Anti-abortionists who are prochoice in case of rape are hypocrites. I am prochoice until 3rd month (no matter the reason), from there I am prolife (again, no matter the reason, even in cases of rape).

I do not think people understand what an abortion does to the female body. In many cases there are no visible results, but there are cases where the woman experiences problems down the road. Everything from internal lesions to possibility of inability to give birth later can occur from a female having an abortion. Some even have planned births several years after the abortion that put the mother in such a state of risk that they must either choose to save the baby or the mother.

People will say that is fine it is the mothers right to incur these future problems if she wishes, the problem is these issues are not always brought forth to the mother having the abortion, and had they known or given it more thought, may not have gone through with the abortion. I know at least two people now that wish they had not gone through with their abortions because of the medical issues they now face, that they were not made aware of at the time of their abortions. They are both unable to work, and collecting from welfare which now adds to the people on welfare that my tax dollars are contributing to, so now it becomes my issue to. This is why I do not believe in abortion, it may at one time been about pro life, but now it is hitting my wallet. By the way the two ladies I know are not minorities; they are white, so race does not figure into my view.

People need to be made aware that abortions could harm women, causing them to be extremely ill and unable to work, and have to enter the welfare system, which will hit your wallet.

This does not happen in all cases, but just the fact that it can happen has to be taken into consideration.

The argument can be had that because of the births, these women might enter into the welfare system as well, however, there is the choice to give the child up for adoption, and there are programs now that allow the mother to remain a part of the child’s life after the adoption which I know from personal experience can be hard on all involved, but ultimately it just gives more people to love the child.

reply to post by Maslo


Still using person? Kthanxbye. Get your morals and ambiguousness out of the equation if you want to debate. please don't introduce a term into something so you can use.

But yes, you could kill those infants if you accept that logic and do not add in some common sense. Why on Earth would you try to use it against me? Please use some intellect. Clearly they have rights. Call me a hypocrite. I honestly couldn't care.

Like I said way back when. If your rights are violated then that life has no right to live. But at a point you clearly have accepted the fact that it is going to live and there is no going back. If full rights and liberties were use dto have sex and a kid comes about, tough luck. Unless the kids going to kill you through pregnancy you have to accept responsibility.

Screw personhood. That's the same crap dictators and losers use to deny people their humanity. Suck it up. Personhood is a lie.

reply to post by Gorman91


I used human person as a term for human life that has full human rights. If you dont like it, substitute "human life that has full human rights" in place of that.

But yes, you could kill those infants if you accept that logic and do not add in some common sense.

Yes. Common sense which says that embryos are inferior to born humans, and do not have human rights (so killing them is not murder). If you wont agree with that common sense, you could kill born humans from rape by your logic, with no problem.

Like I said way back when. If your rights are violated then that life has no right to live. But at a point you clearly have accepted the fact that it is going to live and there is no going back.

So where is the cutoff point until you are allowed to kill a human life even if its not directly threatening you? Clearly the life before that point has no human rights (or is not a person by law) by your logic, otherwise it simply could not be killed for such reason.

Whatever the hell it is, the billboard achieved its objective: stir controversy and gain attention. I'd never of it until ATS focused in on it. By the way, who is that incredibly cute brunette doing some of the interviews? Gorgeous lady.

reply to post by Maslo


There is no life that has no rights. Again, saying such things is called elitism and in many cases was uses by losers who wanted to dehumanize groups. Congratulations on your failogic.

Common sense that all life is equal. regardless of inferiority. The old are inferior, the sick are inferior, the blacks in poor communities are inferior. This does not make them not human, nor does it remove their worth, nor their rights. Once again, your little shpeel is called elitism. No thanks.

Cut off point? I don't know, let the person decide, eh?

Originally posted by tonypazzohome

Originally posted by starwarsisreal
I thought New York is the most Liberal places on Earth? I mean you have Harlem, Chinatown, The Irish Community, etc

you think irish are liberal!? what?! they're the most brainwashed catholics on the planet.

I disagree. Please do not generalise. Thanks

Originally posted by Maslo
reply to post by Gorman91

 

I used human person as a term for human life that has full human rights. If you dont like it, substitute "human life that has full human rights" in place of that.

But yes, you could kill those infants if you accept that logic and do not add in some common sense.

Yes. Common sense which says that embryos are inferior to born humans, and do not have human rights (so killing them is not murder). If you wont agree with that common sense, you could kill born humans from rape by your logic, with no problem.

Like I said way back when. If your rights are violated then that life has no right to live. But at a point you clearly have accepted the fact that it is going to live and there is no going back.

So where is the cutoff point until you are allowed to kill a human life even if its not directly threatening you? Clearly the life before that point has no human rights (or is not a person by law) by your logic, otherwise it simply could not be killed for such reason.

People believe all life has rights and an embryo is defiantly a life form.

We have laws against cruelty to animals that includes killing which excludes killing for food where allowable in the law. There are laws that even protect some plants and insects.

There are beliefs among some who believe it is wrong to kill any kind of life and if they step on an ant, will freak out. To these people it matters not whether the embryo is human, just the fact that it is a form of life is enough, where it should be protected from being put to death.

Where my personal feelings indicate that life is important in all forms, I do not believe that view should be forced on others, though I will let my feelings on the issue be known as said I will not force it upon them.

That being said, there are health issues that do come up, if you look at my previous post you will understand what I mean, as I am not going to reiterate it since it is already in this thread.

reply to post by AlienCarnage


Precisely. But there has to be a line where the law protects, otherwise we have right to kill anyone. In ergo, if it's human and it's not killing or the product of stealing your rights, Do not kill it.

Not sure about anyone else, but I love it when I see things like this put up that I disagree with. That's what America is all about, right? Different viewpoints, starting discussions, stirring the pot, making you think. Imagine how boring it'd be if every message we receive throughout the day we agreed with...

reply to post by Gorman91


I think is more about education than making laws, do we really need more laws that will just get bent and twisted anyway?

Educating people to understand what life is and why it should be not taken away with out any thought is the best angle. There will be always people who disagree, and those people do have the right to disagree.

If laws get passed and set in stone, instead of women going to clean antiseptic hospitals, they will be forced to go to places less clean to have their abortions which heighten the problems these women could have further down the line. Conditions I have pointed out in one of my previous posts.

So the best thing to do is educate about what constitutes life and also educate about the medical issues that these women could face down the line. They should also be educated on the adoption processes that are available as well should they choose not to have the abortion. If they still choose abortion, then it is ultimately their choice, I can only hope that some are persuaded not to get one after they are fully educated.

This may seem to circumvent my point about paying more into welfare do to illness, but it does not as I believe if they are educated about all of the aspects, then it is possible that many will not go the route of abortion, and if needed go the route of adoption, which will help with the welfare situation.

reply to post by Gorman91

There is no life that has no rights.

You are contradicting yourself. You say there is no human life that has no human rights, yet you said human life that is conceived from rape can be killed for reason which human rights forbid. Therefore it clearly has no human rights. So you are an elitist, trying to remove the most basic human right (right to live) of a living human, just because it was conceived from rape.

Cut off point? I don't know, let the person decide, eh?

What if she decides its in 8th month of pregnancy? Or few years after birth?