Lack of feminine characteristics...

You can choose for yourself what to believe, perhaps your current view guides you.

Maybe this exists for you to find the value in the opposite sex,

Maybe this exists for you to find the value in your own sex,

Maybe this exists so you can find the value in yourself.

Let me tell you something. You are valuable beyond what you can imagine.

Let go of the old blame of yourself. Become responsible, become yourself. Be gentle, be loving, be strong, stand firm, take command of yourself, let nothing get in your way, surround yourself with people you love and not only with people who love you.

This is allways about you. You are the only one living your life. Be happy. Give out to the world what you want/need. It will come back twicefold. Make decision and stick with it. You did the right thing, allways.

Hi all, the neanderthal has scraped his knuckles dragging himself from his cave. That said hear me out.

I firmly believe that men and women have very separate and distinct societal and familial roles. They have been this way since time immemorial and will continue to be so until the end of our species. I believe that these characteristics and traits occur at nearly a genetic level. Women bear children so to them falls the role of nurturer and caregiver. Men are larger, stronger, and more aggressive (usually), so to them falls the roles of provider and protector. Now this is not to say that women are weak and useless outside of the bedroom or kitchen. Nor does this mean that they are incapable of fulfilling the roles of protector and provider, nature proves this wrong on a daily basis. Just as women are capable of fulfilling the male roles the men are also capable of being the nurturer and caregiver (minus the whole childbirth thing). Though both are capable of fulfilling the others roles it is also uncomfortable.

Anyone who believes that women are delicate little flowers who are to be sheltered and kept somewhere safe are fools. Do I like to treat my wife as that delicate little flower? YES!! Do I need to? HELL NO! My wife has a hip implant and RA in her spine, yet I've seen her take down a college boy who decided to screw around with our dog one night. I was in no condition to do anything that particular night as I was dealing with a very serious case of pancreatitis (sp?) I enjoy treating my wife like a delicate flower because it makes her feel like a woman. Her words not mine. At the same time though I have expectations that she will do certain things that make me feel like a man. (Get your mind out of the gutter you perverts!) I want her opinion on everything and to be honest she is probably one of the most intelligent women I know. I value what she has to say and what she thinks.

Although she is a housewife now, she worked for 20+ years providing for herself and all of her nieces and nephews (there is like 10 of them) since she is unable to have children herself. Her independence and intelligence is what attracted me to her. She strengthens me where I am lacking and I strengthen her where she is weak. THIS is what relationships are about.

American society as a whole has lost itself in the feminist movement. For example, we babysit out grandniece and grandnephew. The grandniece was watching a show on nick where the girls basically just spent the entire show running down the boys and preaching about how dumb they all are. The girls on the show basically treated the boys as if they are servants and morons. THIS is what is acceptable today? What would have been the outcry in the media and from the lesbia.....er feminists had those positions been reversed. We would have been innundated with what knuckle dragging neanderthal pigs men are. (No I don't believe that feminists are all lesbians, that was a joke).

I raised my son, from my first marriage, to respect and treat women as if they are rare and special. At the same time however, I taught him that no one has the right to downplay or denigrate him. Its all about balance.

A 50/50 relationship is the ideal, but it is also a fallacy. I listen to my wife and take into account anything she has to say, just as she does with me. We usually reach a compromise that is somewhere in the middle. However, when the chips are down and especially if we are somewhere in the area of provide and protect, she knows to shut up and step back, I don't need the distractions at that point. When it comes to nurturing and caregiving and the chips are down, I shut up and sit down. At that point I'm only there for backup. As I said its about balance.

Someone on here mentioned being the Alpha male, either you are or your aren't. You can learn all there is to know about being an alpha male but unless you have the heart for it, your a drone. Feminism is about making the alpha male into a drone. Its not about equality, its about putting women into a position OVER everyone else, just as affirmative action is about giving advantages to someone based on skin color. If I ramble I apologize, sometimes my thoughts make connections and take off in different directions during my ranting and grunting. Now if you will excuse me, my wife is keeping the furs warm in our cave.

OH and just for the record..........Al Bundy is my hero. hehehehe

reply to post by HaveAnotherOne


If men haven't evolved, that is sad.

reply to post by schlub



How about their dad got hooked on drugs, is a lazy good for nothing sperm donor, and I spent the last 5 years of our relationship wearing the pants because he didn't feel that he had to support his family. That is pretty typical these days you know. Like I said, there a no more men of integrity!

reply to post by Roger Dat


Both men and women do need to work on being better humans. Women have become what we are because we can! We are no longer held back by our society and we are better for it!

NOW... you are right in saying that some women have lost their values. I could not agree more. It makes me ill to see women just sleep with anyone. It takes us back some notches.

As far as telling men what to do. I know some women like that and their husbands just do as they are told like dogs. Relationships should be "partnerships".

Originally posted by ignoranceisdestruction

Originally posted by Xiamara
I support the femminist movement. Society is controlled by men and its should be said that women should be able to act however the choose as should men. More feminine men and androgynous gender roles i think is important to society

There are no genes determining purely feminine or male characteristics. Men use to wear pink and purple as purple was a royal colour, now if a man wears purple he's labeled gay. Times change as do social norms. its natural, its a new method of thinking. There is nothing wrong with men being more feminine or women being more masculine or holding the same values. We are all the same and the sooner we learn this the sooner we can all get along.

edit on 7-3-2011 by Xiamara because: Went on ATS before my morning coffee

you're type of thinking is extremely twisted

Some of the statements typed by several women on this thread are similar and identical in thought process. This to me seems like the Universities and colleges are the culprits with few anti social females as faculties, it is easy to twist and corrupt the young female students joining straight out of high school. Its typical human nature to be greedy and it just shows. It is more so a CULT belief system. More and more and more power demand and hunger for power is what I see with such statements. Everyone has a place in the society and just wish people can understand that.

Originally posted by DonnaLynn
reply to post by schlub

 

How about their dad got hooked on drugs, is a lazy good for nothing sperm donor, and I spent the last 5 years of our relationship wearing the pants because he didn't feel that he had to support his family. That is pretty typical these days you know. Like I said, there a no more men of integrity!

Blame this on the society and culture. In other words his Mother. Generally a mother is the one that teaches the ways of the society to a child. Mothers have bigger influence and attachment to their children since she nurtured them inside her womb for 9 months. The children also share the natural bond which is very very evident and proven with new borns and infants who can instantly feel their biological mother's touch and sense her presence. Generally the men are more attached to their mothers emotionally even after they become adults. The father has some influence but the mother has more influence on the outcome of a man's thought process and how he treats other women.

Originally posted by Yeah-Alright
I have noticed that females in a traditional male-dominated society are much more feminine in their behaviour and mild so to speak. But in western societies, with what I have heard and seen from my own and other acquaintances' experiences, females are having more of ego-related issues and there you may find more instances of 'spoilt brats'. Now before someone jumps to conclusion about this comment, let me clarify that I am not advocating any pros of one kind of society over the other. Maybe it is because there is more freedom for females in the west and as human nature goes, they tend to take liberties of it.
This makes me wonder if as compared to past, there is a degradation of basic female characteristics, what it would be like in the future.
Well this is from a female's perspective who is comparatively new to living in a western society, I would like to know what do the males think about it. Are they fine with the fact that the females are becoming more aggressive, egotistical, money-minded and less 'traditional' in a way or there are those out there who still value those gentle qualities that in my personal opinion are very much valuable?!

If you are defining "feminine" as mild and (reading between the lines, and perhaps assumptive... please forgive me) submissive then you are correct. This personally strikes me as a limited view of what is feminine however.

Male or female, when you give anyone more power they will often try to control more; control their environment and the people around them overtly. Again, the caveat is when they are allowed to do so. This leads to the "ego-related" issues that you spoke of, because the manifestation is often In-Your-Face so to speak, and when a person that is used to submission in a certain group sees members of that group behave as if they have power that can certainly look like a "spoiled brat" to such a perspective.

When you repress one group they often cannot overtly express ego to society at large. However, in my experience those women in those societies that are not allowed to express that ego in front of certain groups (primarily men) and must accept submission, still have those "ego-related issues" amongst each other. It is often manifested subtly and frankly under cover. Human beings are social animals and heirarchical ones. They will always jostle for position.

So I suppose yes, I think to a point you are correct, Western culture allows and in some cases even encourages women to express dominance and competitiveness to society at large. The down side to those manifestations in men and women are egotism, selfishness, and aggressiveness (vs. assertiveness). There is a responsibility to power and handling it appropriately is always tricky for either gender. I think that qualifying the negative (or positive for that matter) aspects to that as "masculine" or "feminine" is over-complicating an already complicated dynamic.

Having said that, I do believe that such a perspective is more "traditional" in terms of gender roles. However, I believe that said perspective is largely (although not completely) perpetuated by men molding society to maintain the male-dominated status quo. In other words, male dominated societies are built to put pressure on women to behave in a way that is mild and submissive from all sides. A part of that pressure is applied by defining what is feminine as mild and submissive. To act any other way--or more specifically in a way that is determined to be "masculine" (i.e. aggressive, dominant, loud, assertive, "bossy", or what have you) means that as a woman one is not behaving appropriately and are therefor a defunct, ill-behaved, un-feminine woman and more likely to be rejected by that society.

As an aside...

I'm a girl too.

This is evolution. Men and women change. Compared to other species, the sexual dimorphism between human males and females is already small. Smaller than (do not debate evolution) apes pr past hominids. It makes absolute sense the our sexual dimorphism will get less and less.
If you have both sexes able to serve both roles (protector and nurturer) then you have an even more successful species.

I say that whichever is more suited to serve either role should do so, regardless of gender. Relationships and family are 50/50 regardless of what the genders involved are.

I am girly in ways: I am non confrontational, I am caring, nurturing, love kids, and I prefer to look pretty and be submissive to my partner (male or female), but if you hurt someone I care for I will be aggressive, I like video games, I like martial arts movies and I don't back down from guys. I am what I am when I need to be what I need to be.

Give a woman the opportunity to "wear the pants" and she WILL.
That is not exclusively male or female, that is adaptability.
And that is VERY human.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by Lois55

 

Nice post Lois, and I might add that if guys had not considered women to be "chattels" at their disposal, creatures of sex to be exploited or domnated, women would not have felt the need to rise up. As it is, women do need to be appreciated for their gifts and contributions, whether it be as a stay at home mom, or a leader or pioneer in some field of their choice. Also men need to uphold the 40 % Divine feminine in their own being too. This does not mean they must become effeminent or wishy washy, it just means they have greater sensitivity to the feminine side of things. There has been a lot of talk about women of the East, but men of the East are often more receptive to the feminine aspect. However, there is no absolute for any culture.

I really, really wish people, most importantly women looked up the facts of history instead of relying on the feminist "down with the patriarchy!" professors and teachers. Here is a clue to the dim witted, the 1950's life style was the product of the 1800's women's rights movement known as "Mothers of the Republic"(their last action it could be argued was securing the vote for women, something feminist's played no real part of, and feminism as it is known in America comes from the WKKK[Women's Klu Klux Klan, a few of the founders of the NOW where former leaders in the WKKK]).

The truth doesn't matter I guess, the big picture when inconvenient to one's own little picture is so easily discarded. But reality is gonna come a-knocking sooner rather then later. But heck why get into the nitty-gritty details of the effect of the feminist hate movement. Yes feminism is a hate movement. To those that doubt that, find one study from them that is accurate(not an out-right fraud or fluffed up for "Dramatic effect").

While your looking stuff up also look up how the AAUW fooled a nation into believing their was a girl crisis and caused a very real boy crisis in education. Also look up gender graphs on grades, graduation rates and college enrollment. Compare female and male students then visit the female supremacist AAUW website.

Also if you have the time look up the bigotries that existed in Academia in the early 1900's and compare and contrast to the current era. You can hold debates about the merits of traditionalism or fight off the banter of older chauvinistic males who grew up in a society that doesn't exist anymore. But a lot of these older guy's that are spouting off gender stuff are on the way out. In 20 years most of them won't be around(heck 5-10 years) to help you gall's deal with the blow-back of 20-30 years of outright hatred and discrimination that has been levied against younger men.

I know many of you lack the level of awareness and unbiased reasoning to see clearly, but the truth is feminist's have intentionally attacked Gen Y males for the sake of making it impossible for women to choose to be SAHM.
You can deny it all you want, but the gender war is far from over. Look up all the animosity towards women, and then look at the angle, what caused them to be like that and pay close attention to the details. Forget for a moment that you where born an entitled "princess" that has right's to everything while your male counter-part's only have the right to ask for more abuse.

We can choose to either see reality for what it is, or remain intentionally ignorant only to be run over by reality.
Society is changing in way's the social engineer's nor the traditionalist's didn't anticipate, and we will all pay because of it.

Originally posted by undo


doesn't have anything to do with being western, cause if it did, then explain this lady! I mean this woman must be mainlining testosterone (the busy body version)

I wonder how many abortions hey have Iran every year.

Originally posted by movetovanuatu
Yeah, I think females in modern western society are definately becoming more confident and egocentric, i don't think it's got everything to do with being female though, i think if you oppress any group successfully for long enough, they will either become timid, or rebel. I am of the firm beleif that we are all potentially the same regardless of race, sex or ability, the only thing that seperates us is how we choose to act. But i don't like the way things are going, i am male, and now it seems that there isn't a single female on earth who still beleives in positive values, and that get's me really upset. I'm sure i am very wrong about that but it's how i feel..

Anyway, it's not people being assertive that i have a problem with, it's when people disrespect themselves and each-other by acting like animals.

edit on 7-3-2011 by movetovanuatu because: I sounded silly

Egocentric? You mean, they are no longer interested in entertaining boys in grown-up bodies who need obedient, attentive girls to feel okay? Yes, then, we ARE becoming egocentric, in your small little world view. "Positive values?" What exactly is that supposed to mean? What is your subjective idea of "positive values?"

Originally posted by JonoEnglish
Women in the Western society are more equal to man.

In my early life, growing up in the late 70's and early 80's women were still seen as the one to stay at home to look after the kids, cook, clean, do the shopping and take care of her husband when he returned from work. The family was run by the husband, making decisons on financial matters and important things that effect the family unit.

Great for the husband, as he was seen as in charge. Not great for the woman, as she had to live a life that was expected of her by pressures of society.

Women today, have more choice, they don't have to conform.

Women, aren't stupid, nieve and weak, that was the attitude of many men towards women not so long ago.

Thank you, sir. Well said.

Women want relationship with mature men, not little boys. What has changed is that we are no longer playing stupid, obedient and helpless just so boys can feel okay about themselves. That actually is a description of a dog and for centuries we have been treated socially and legally, at times, as "chattel." The "boys" aren't going to do well unless they decide to grow up. "Femininity" was an idea invented by boys to imprison women in a social/political/economic structure that has so far been all about benefitting the boys. If any of you had to spend just 24 hours as a female, you would be appalled at the demeaning, abusive, condescending attitudes we have to deal with 24/7. Sorry, those days are all gone.

If those boys want to understand what is going on and what has actually existed in our history when men and women honored and respected each other as equals, a fantastic book is, "When the Drummers Were Women," by Layne Redmond. Inspiring and well-documented.

reply to post by starwisdom


Really? From what I see in my college, women are either tormenting the less popular men, flirting with other men or gossiping and pointing at other people. Sorry if I am being offensive, but that is what i see. I don't see some sad abused or oppressed life.

I support both masculine females and feminine men. I still fear that we are losing our feminine women and our masculine men.

Originally posted by Yeah-Alright
I have noticed that females in a traditional male-dominated society are much more feminine in their behaviour and mild so to speak. But in western societies, with what I have heard and seen from my own and other acquaintances' experiences, females are having more of ego-related issues and there you may find more instances of 'spoilt brats'.

I think that in male-dominated societies, women would be more likely to be 'spoiled' they are taught to be stupid and pretty and weak and that men should do everything. Unfortunately, this even happens in western society. Women get away with crimes more than men, also.

Originally posted by Yeah-Alright
This makes me wonder if as compared to past, there is a degradation of basic female characteristics, what it would be like in the future.
Well this is from a female's perspective who is comparatively new to living in a western society, I would like to know what do the males think about it. Are they fine with the fact that the females are becoming more aggressive, egotistical, money-minded and less 'traditional' in a way or there are those out there who still value those gentle qualities that in my personal opinion are very much valuable?!

So feminine qualities are non-aggressive, non-egotistical, and not financially wise (money-minded)? You see what I mean now, when I say that women are taught to be weak, selfish, and stupid?

Women are humans just like men, and yes, I know that there are SOME differences, I'm not saying that they are exactly the same, but women still have human nature even if 'society' tells her to think otherwise.