Why should MY taxes:

Originally posted by xavi1000

Originally posted by whaaa


Oh yeah Whatukno....it's PEOPLE LIKE YOU that are tearing this nation apart and trying to turn this great nation into another Russia just like Barry and his Obamanation plan.,

While Rush, Beck, Palin, Newt, Savage, Levin, Prager, Boortz, OReilly, Ingraham, Medved and Belling are trying to bring folks together so we can all live as one big happy family, it's PEOPLE LIKE YOU that just won't listen and continue fan the flames of commie hatred to God loving, fearing lovers of peace and harmony.

I hope you're happy! And may God show you his mighty wrath because he will, you just wait and see!!!!!
Any thinking person can see your evil plan because you are SPAWN OF SATAN !!!! and we know how to deal with PEOPLE LIKE YOU!!!!!!!

edit on 5-3-2011 by whaaa because: sarcasm you betcha!

Posts like this make me think that there is no hope for humanity

You could very well be right....but I was just sarcastically carrying on the "pokin of fun" at the conservative mind set. I thought I gave a clue in the green edit tag.

reply to post by whatukno


The problem is, all your politicians (GOP/Dem) are paid by LOBBYISTS, and the weapons industry is a huuuuuuuuge force in Washington. The political system is screwed in that the politicians now work for CORPORATIONS and not CITIZENS anymore...they only care about money. That's why the defence spending increased by so much and why cutting anything but the defence spending is like a drop of water on a hot stone plate.

Fix the system, because until then, all that GOP vs Dem sharade is nothing but gladiator games to entertain the dumb public.

reply to post by whaaa


Hehehe, please announce sarcasm more prominently next time...there's so many lunatics on here, it's sometimes hard to differentiate if they're being serious or not

Maybe if they didnt extort your property from you in the first place they wouldnt have so many gimped soldiers to support.

A govt with a bottomless purse made these problems they say they have to keep digging into the purse to fix.

And they say perpetual motion isnt possible.

reply to post by whatukno


My God, WUK, if don't love this country then leave it! Take your booty to the Cayman islands or to Dubai, where you can hold some sheik's hand and kiss his royal cheek.

Don't you know that Americans show their patriotism, their love for this country and freedom, by paying taxes that go into military budgets that are transferred to corporations and govts all over this planet? These corporations and govts are ENTITLED to this money!

You don't like paying taxes as a citizen? You gonna be one of those dope smoking, tree hugger, war tax resister hippies or are you gonna not pay taxes like a man, by becoming a corporation and writing off everything the Chamber of Commerce etal have lobbied Congress for.

.....People like you make me.... think.

Seriously now.....I remember during Viet Nam some people chose to not pay taxes (war tax resistors) by living a simple life, reducing their income to the point where they paid no taxes. Your average citizen who, for whatever reason, chose not to pay taxes, ended up in prison, while businesses continued to lobby Congress for more ways to avoid taxes, while at the same time lobbying for more tax dollars to go to them, and lobbying Congress to kill or call the watchdogs off if they got too close to the scent of corruption.

Our taxes rarely get to the poor people though.

It's not right to take away your money to give it to someone else, it doesn't even matter what they take it for, it's not fair and it's illegal. This socialism stuff is one of the main reasons why America is going down hill, when are we going to wake up and realise that our Goverenment DOESN'T have our best interest at heart? Time after time we give them our money and time after time they screw us over and over, when do we say enough is enough?

Indeed, I do feel bad for poor people, but there HAS to be a better way then trusting the Government in helping them. Its not even the Governments job to help them, it's OUR job. This is my main problem with Liberals and Conservatives they continually argue their points, but at the end of the day, poor people are STILL poor. Why don't you guys actually try find a solution to the problem?

reply to post by MrXYZ


Quasi OT MrXYZ..

One morning before school, GMA had a segment on Jesus Camp. The trio and I were quite and

Well the next day, they were being naughty as siblings tend to be I rounded them up and put my hands on my hips (the ole Mom stance) and said "That's it.. this summer I am sending all 3 of you off to Jesus Camp!"

They just looked at me and said "MOM!!!! That is sooooooooooo mean!!"

Excellent thread, WUK. I see it a lot too, that double standard. You have these people complaining about their taxes being used to give a hand to the needy but then they brag about their kid joining the military where my taxes will help fund him and his buddies to terrorize needy people elsewhere.

No offense to the enlisted kids out there; it's not your fault your bosses are evil but... this whole pot calling the kettle black needs to stop.

BTW, I like the donating to PMC suggestion. Good call.

Originally posted by whaaa

Originally posted by xavi1000

Originally posted by whaaa


Oh yeah Whatukno....it's PEOPLE LIKE YOU that are tearing this nation apart and trying to turn this great nation into another Russia just like Barry and his Obamanation plan.,

While Rush, Beck, Palin, Newt, Savage, Levin, Prager, Boortz, OReilly, Ingraham, Medved and Belling are trying to bring folks together so we can all live as one big happy family, it's PEOPLE LIKE YOU that just won't listen and continue fan the flames of commie hatred to God loving, fearing lovers of peace and harmony.

I hope you're happy! And may God show you his mighty wrath because he will, you just wait and see!!!!!
Any thinking person can see your evil plan because you are SPAWN OF SATAN !!!! and we know how to deal with PEOPLE LIKE YOU!!!!!!!

edit on 5-3-2011 by whaaa because: sarcasm you betcha!

Posts like this make me think that there is no hope for humanity

You could very well be right....but I was just sarcastically carrying on the "pokin of fun" at the conservative mind set. I thought I gave a clue in the green edit tag.

Thank goodness you pointed out your edit.. I was just about to post...

Oh you poor thing, somewhere a villiage is sure lonely

Dear WhatUKno,

I am sorry that you saw my note as non-contributative (is that a word?). I wanted to make two points I thought were relevant. One was to thank you sincerely for introducing humor to the discussion, I honestly did chuckle. Please continue writing, I expect to learn a lot from you. (Absolutely sincere.)

The second point was to question the validity of your argument. As you said, a few posts later:

Originally posted by whatukno
This is the exact argument conservatives use to try and justify ridding social programs like Medicaid and Social Security.

Now do you see how ridiculous this argument is?

Yes, I knew that was what you were trying to say in the OP. Conservatives have no objection to the government providing proper compensation for services rendered. The conservative argument against the current entilement programs has nothing to do with what you claimed. Your OP implied conservatives believe such and such and that it is foolish to believe that, when conservatives don't believe that at all. That's why I called your OP a strawman argument. I thought you would see that.

As was pointed out, you should pay taxes for the military because the Constitution provides for it. One can argue that the military is not being used properly, bring that up with the Commander in Chief. May I suggest electing a different one?

Originally posted by Cuervo
No offense to the enlisted kids out there; it's not your fault your bosses are evil but... this whole pot calling the kettle black needs to stop.

BTW, I like the donating to PMC suggestion. Good call.

It's mostly poor kids that join the Military.

reply to post by whatukno


I'm not against social programs, but what I'm against is people living on welfare and given a place to live their entire life without giving anything back in return. If you need food stamps to feed your family fine, and housing, that's fine too. If you're getting a handout you should at least be expected to work for the government in exchange for it. Maybe cleaning up city streets for 8 hours, cleaning off graffiti, painting park benches and cutting grass in local parks. Maybe we could cut down on city services and property taxes if we can get these people to work and help bring down our taxes down at the same time. The major reason city property taxes keep on skyrocketing is because these nontaxable housing projects are raising the tax base for everyone else. Maybe some of these people who are sitting on their duffs everyday and getting handouts will see that welfare is not a way of life. If they had to work to "Earn" their stamps and housing maybe they would hate doing it and really start looking for a job that will help support themselves! Some of these people are selling their food stamps on the streets, and selling drugs out of city housing units. Some people just really take advantage of the system.

reply to post by WeRpeons


Or... that could just be anecdotal fairy tales made up to get people like you angry. Understand that many people on government assistance have been paying into the system for years before ever having to use it. Think about how much you have paid in taxes over the years... now think about how long it would take to break even if you were getting food stamps.

Really, you most likely aren't paying for somebody's "hand-outs"; many have already paid for their own hand-outs. What you pay for are the politicians, corporations, and military. Those are the real well-fare cases right there!

reply to post by WeRpeons


It is so easy to pick on the poor and minorities because they are obvious and in the media, especially right wing Fox and clear channel because they have an agenda. I doubt if most people even know where the real welfare goes.

Corporate subsidies even though they show record profits, especially oil companies.

www.nytimes.com...

War profiteers subsidies...

www.fpif.org...

Subsidies to the tobacco industry.....still

farm.ewg.org...

Subsides for not growing crops....still

www.washingtonpost.com...

There is where your anger should be directed, not the poor. What the poor use in welfare is but a drop in the bucket compared to Corporate welfare.

Yeah, some people do take advantage of the system; but please open your eyes to the real corruption hidden behind board rooms, golf courses and the halls of government.

Originally posted by whaaa

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by LoverBoy

 

Actually there isn't any real difference between the two arguments.

They are both completely ridiculous. Of course we need a military, and we do need some social spending as well. I just wanted to point out how incredibly ignorant the Conservative argument against "entitlements" is.

Oh yeah Whatukno....it's PEOPLE LIKE YOU that are tearing this nation apart and trying to turn this great nation into another Russia just like Barry and his Obamanation plan.,

While Rush, Beck, Palin, Newt, Savage, Levin, Prager, Boortz, OReilly, Ingraham, Medved and Belling are trying to bring folks together so we can all live as one big happy family, it's PEOPLE LIKE YOU that just won't listen and continue fan the flames of commie hatred to God loving, fearing lovers of peace and harmony.

I hope you're happy! And may God show you his mighty wrath because he will, you just wait and see!!!!!
Any thinking person can see your evil plan because you are SPAWN OF SATAN !!!! and we know how to deal with PEOPLE LIKE YOU!!!!!!!

edit on 5-3-2011 by whaaa because: sarcasm you betcha!

Wait whaa...aaat about them "homer-sexual fellers"D'oh"; you managedto get everybodyin there except them
well WUK if thats the ignorant conservative argument I guess it deserves the road worn liberal answer" you vote; through your legislators.who spend your money.
You got your point across;even with sarcasm turned up to "11"it wasn't quite enough for a few folks...the typical liberal tasty adjectives "ignorant" thrown in for flavor just keep me on my side of the table...

Originally posted by whatukno
This is the exact argument conservatives use to try and justify ridding social programs like Medicaid and Social Security.

Now do you see how ridiculous this argument is?

You argument is specious at best. The Constitution actually requires the federal government to provide for the common defense. No where does it say we should pay for old people to stay home and play dominoes instead of working. No where in the Constitution does it say we should pay unwed mothers to have even more kids that they cannot afford. I could go on, but hopefully you see the difference. A military is specifically called for, your socialist redistribution programs are not.

Originally posted by whatukno
This is the exact argument conservatives use to try and justify ridding social programs like Medicaid and Social Security.

Now do you see how ridiculous this argument is?

Nope. Because it is a fact that there are those that abuse social programs, especially Medicaid and Food Stamps..

IMO, because I'm allowed one even though I'm Conservative.. if there were more extensive investigations into people using social programs, we could ensure that those that truly need it, who couldn't function or provide for their families without get the assistance, while those that purposefully suck off the system are excluded.

Some scenarios:

A single mom with 2 kids is in an accident, lets say car accident, and breaks her back. It's not her fault she can no longer function normally to work a typical job. I personally have no problem at all seeing her use food stamps, free health care, and government subsidized living.

A single mom with 2 kids that can work but doesn't, is a perpetual "full time student" even after 8 years and no degree, uses food stamps, medicaid, and because she's a minority, huge tax refunds (more than she paid in) and has another kid on the way. I personally don't think she deserves anything. I'd go as far to say if she's to incompetent to feed her kids, have the state take them. I'd personally rather see kids grow up in state care than ... that.

But since the Government doesn't check, doesn't regulate.. it's a free system, why not milk it? Under a certain income threshold? Food stamps! Are you a minority making minimum wage? Food Stamps, free college, Medicaid and housing assistance!

Middle class tax payer? On your knees and assume the position, Uncle Sam has come for his dues.

Originally posted by whatukno
Why should my taxes go to pay for such SOCIALISM?

Paying to train a group of people to do a job? Why should MY taxes go to provide these people with meals, health care, vehicles, places to sleep, and the tools to do their jobs?

Why?

This is socialist and as we all know everything socialist is bad.

The group I am talking about is the military.

Why should I pay to train someone to kill? Why should my tax money go to bombs? Why should my tax money go to building a nuclear arsenal?

I never get to use it, so why should I have to pay for it?

And you know that military personnel are lazy too, they go off, get their legs blown off on purpose just so they can live on the dime of the citizens, getting free health care from the VA. Those Commies!

If people want a military they should donate to a PMC and not take MY tax money to pay for these people.

edit on 3/5/2011 by whatukno because: (no reason given)

While running errands it occurred to me( how sick is that???) your snarky sarcastic post has an answer:
Providing for the common defense IS ONE of the few constitutionally authorized duties of the federal government litetrally spelled out with no funky twisted interpretation required.:

Why Provide for the Common Defense?
Published on January 19, 2011 by Mackenzie Eaglen


The Declaration of Independence reminds us that all people have inalienable rights—among them, the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. To secure these rights, the U.S. Constitution creates a government of the people to “establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity.”

Why did the Founding Fathers believe that the federal government must provide for the common defense?

The weakness of the thirteen states under the Articles of Confederation, before the Constitution, convinced the Founders that the nation needed a stronger government, including a stronger military. The Founders were careful to grant the federal government only the few, limited powers that were necessary for it to carry out its aims. Under the Constitution, most powers are reserved to the states, or to the people.

The federal government is concerned only with issues that affect the welfare of the entire nation. It has the exclusive power, for example, to create an army, to declare war, and to make treaties. Indeed, as James Madison wrote in The Federalist Papers, “the operations of the federal government will be most extensive and important in times of war and danger.”[1] For the Founders, a primary and central job of the federal government was to “provide for the common defense.”

The Founders realized that only an organized and professional military could respond to both domestic and foreign threats. That is why they authorized the building of forts, the creation of the U.S. Navy, and the founding of West Point. In times of peace, the United States has often been tempted to believe that it could safely disarm. The experience of the Founders convinced them that no peace was so secure that it could be relied upon with assurance, and no nation was so safe that it did not need to maintain sound and reliable defenses. America has regularly had to relearn this wisdom, often at great cost in money and men.

But the Founders were also suspicious of standing armies. They knew that, in Europe, standing armies had been used by monarchies to oppress the people. In order to avoid this danger, while providing for the nation’s security, the Founders made the common defense a shared responsibility of Congress and the President, the elected (and separate) branches of government. This ensured the American military would serve the nation, not subvert the rule of the people.

Thus, Congress declares war and funds the armed forces: the Constitution gives Congress power to “raise and support armies” and to “provide and maintain a navy.” The President commands the armed forces and controls their operations: as Commander in Chief, he is obliged to defend and protect the nation. In his role as the country’s chief diplomat, he also seeks to keep the peace.

"How could a readiness for war in time of peace be safely prohibited, unless we could prohibit, in like manner, the preparations and establishments of every hostile nation?" – James Madison
January 19, 1788

The American Founders held out the possibility of more peaceful relations among nations. But they nevertheless understood that “the surest means of avoiding war is to be prepared for it in peace.”[2] As Thomas Paine warned, it would not be enough to “expect to reap the blessings of freedom.” Americans would have to “undergo the fatigues of supporting it.”[3] Supporting freedom and defending the nation would require public spending on the nation’s defense forces in peacetime. As President George Washington asserted in his First Annual Message, delivered in 1790, the “most effectual means of preserving peace” is “to be prepared for war.”[4]

During his presidency, Washington warned against leaving the nation’s security “to the uncertainty of procuring a warlike apparatus at the moment of public danger.”[5] By then, it would be too late. In his Farewell Address, Washington urged Americans to remember “that timely disbursements to prepare for danger frequently prevent much greater disbursements to repel it.”[6]

Washington believed defense spending was necessary because he, like all the Founders, knew the history of wars in Europe and had experience with North African pirate attacks against American shipping. Washington’s generation knew the world was a dangerous place. As John Jay put it, “nations in general will make war whenever they have a prospect of getting anything by it.” Furthermore, dictators or “absolute monarchs” would often make war even “when their nations are to get nothing by it, but for purposes and objects merely personal.”[7]

Most if not all of the Founding Fathers agreed that when America was threatened, the nation had to respond clearly and forcefully. After the United States obtained its independence in 1787, it lost the protection of the French Navy. Soon, the U.S. had to defend its sailors and commerce against North African pirates enabled by the Barbary States of Tripoli, Tunis, and Algiers. At first, Congress followed the tradition of the European countries and appropriated what would today be millions of dollars as tribute to the pirates. These ransom payments merely encouraged more pirate attacks and more demands for money.

Urged on by the public, Thomas Jefferson, elected in 1801, refused to accede to Tripoli’s demand for an immediate payment of $225,000 and annual payments of $25,000. Instead, Jefferson deployed frigates to defend America’s interests in the Mediterranean. Tunis and Algiers responded to America’s show of force by breaking their alliance with Tripoli. Hostilities with Tripoli only ended after American land forces took the fight to Tripoli, threatening to capture the city and depose its leader.

This episode taught America that bribery and appeasement encourage aggressors. Only an American Navy able to patrol the world’s oceans would bring peace on the high seas. As American interests have expanded and technology has evolved, America has built a modern military. But the essence of American policy has not changed: strength is the best and safest path to peace and security.

America’s Founders believed that peace through strength is preferable—militarily, financially, and morally—to allowing war to come through weakness. That is why, over two hundred years ago, Thomas Jefferson advised George Washington that “the power of making war often prevents it.”[8] In providing for the common defense, the goal of the Founders was to build a military sufficiently powerful and capable that America’s enemies preferred not to challenge it. In his Farewell Address, Washington hoped the day would soon come when “belligerent nations, under the impossibility of making acquisitions upon us, will not lightly hazard the giving us provocation; when we may choose peace or war, as our interest, guided by justice, shall counsel.”

much more at:



www.heritage.org...

reply to post by Cuervo


Fairy tales? Are you kidding? I know people who work for the welfare office in my city that talk about how the system is abused. Some people pay a lot more into the system than others, and if you think people who have been on welfare for years have paid more than what they're taking out is a complete false hood! There are kids that have grown up in families that have been on welfare their entire lives! They grow up and they think that's a way of life! Like I said in my post, I have no problems with people who are legitimately looking for work. The government doesn't even require these people to show any kind of proof they are actively looking for work. I'm not for corporate welfare and I am not a republican. Nor am I a FOX news viewer. I'm neither a democrat nor republican. I despise each party because they are one of the same. But what I believe, is people should be treated fairly and government funds should be used appropriately and not haphazardly. When their are abuses in the system, you find ways of plugging them up. Presently, I guess our government just doesn't care. It's not their money they're using!

I support taxes for the military (coming from corporations). But we in no way should have welfare. Or Medicaid. People have lived off the system too long and they need to grow up and get a job like the rest of us. Can't pay the bill for the Escalade now that the government's not giving you a handout? Tough crap, turn it in to the banks and get a Corolla. Income taxes are an abomination as it is. Make the corporations pay just like they used to, before 1913.