The new Bible, words taken out...

reply to post by Shystargazer


The KJV is one of the absolute worst translations of the Bible around. It's language is, I'll grant you, majestic (which since it was created at the orders of a king, stands to reason), but our knowledge of context and meaning of words in ancient Hebrew has come a long way since 1611. Not to mention that the translators and editors of the KJV pandered to James in their wordings. A case in point is the sentence in the KJV "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." In Hebrew it is "You shall not permit a poisoner to live." But James had a well-known fear and hatred of witches and wanted the word "poisoner" translated as "witch" and his editorial staff did just that - the old 'he that has the gold rules' premise.

I take it since you admire the KJV so much that you are not put off by the fact that James was a practicing homosexual. I understand that a number of other fundamentalist Christian groups will no longer use the KJV because of this fact. Good for you!

Originally posted by BadBoYeed
and why would they change holocaust? it's not referring to that whole WWII thing.

edit on 4-3-2011 by BadBoYeed because: (no reason given)

These days very few people know that the original meaning of the word "holocaust" was a burnt offering to the Gods, or in this particular instance, the Judeo-Christian God. Years ago, in high school, I had to read Homer's Iliad in English class. The teacher didn't have enough of the "Iliad for dummies" translation to go around and so had a few of us who were able go and read adult translations. The version I read used the word "holocaust" for the burnt offerings made by Greeks and Trojans. Up to that point the only holocausts I knew about were the mass killings of the Jews and other groups during World War II and the Armenians during World War I. I don't know how true this explanation is as I've never bothered to research it, but one of my history teachers mentioned that the reason Hitler's attempt to exterminate the Jews came to be know as holocaust was because of the extensive use of crematoria. From that mass murder event, other mass murders came to be called holocausts and the original meaning of sacrifice was lost.

reply to post by LibertyLover
the KJV is not the only old bible the Vulgate bible is older and more accurate

I actually made a thread a while back about how many times the bible has been edited over the years, if anyone is interested. They've been changing the words of 'god' for as long as there has been a bible.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by LibertyLover
when used in the bible it can mean this strongsnumbers.com... as seen here Word Origin
from kalal
Definition
entire, whole, a holocaust
NASB Word Usage
all (2), burned entirely (1), completely (1), entirely (1), perfect (3), perfection (1), pure (1), whole (2), whole burnt offering (2), whole burnt offerings (1). does that make sense to you now, as in my last post "the tax i pay is a holocaust to me"

i often thought what is was like back then , being a scribe, a monk, trying your best to interpret a word and some that were not meant to be translated by those few who felt that they should know the word only.

I mean no disrespect, none in the least. But my pastor brought up this topic in a bible study class not long ago and we all had a heated debate about the whole thing as you can well imagine. The older parishioners of course favored the KJV, the younger people of congregation favored the NLV. Both have their pluses and minusis and I won't be pushed down the road to comment in favor of one over the other.

In the heat of the 'battle' I, being a consumate smart-alec, posed the question of "What do we all see as a translation in the future? Jesus tweeted the sermon on the mount to the group and all was good....or Moses posted the 10 Commandments on his facebook page and the masses "liked" them?..." It dispelled the heat in the arguing at least.... but my comment is this..

From the time the 'modern' bible came into existance it was/is flawed and was/is an inturpretion. It always will be because 'man' presumes to know the mind and will of God. It will be updated from time to time to fit the lanuage of the time, as well as the political mood of the time. We do the best we can with what we have, with what makes sense to us as individuals and that's about all that we can do.

Originally posted by The Djin
reply to post by whyamIhere

 

It's really not a secret......The Dead Sea Scrolls is a good place to start.

Why ? They were also written by men

I was actually referring to the evidence that words in the Bible have been changed.

Sorry for not making that clearer...

reply to post by bekod


If you read the article you'll see that they didn't take anything out, it's just a new translation. They changed words to better reflect their meaning in today's language. Yeah, stories have been put in and taken out of the bible over time. Before The Bible was put together people just had different books of it so some people may have had more info than others. Now it's watered down a bit but still good to drink if you clear your eyes. There have been many Editions of the bible in many translations, and some sects even have their own Bible. Personally I usually stick to the American Standard Version because it tries to be the most "literal translation" so that I can understand better. Most people these days read the NIV. Chill out, you don't need to get all hyped up about a new translation, just stick to yours if you don't like it. You should read it and compare first though. And don't worry about what "the blind" have to say against you, instead consider the evidence you have to show them.
Peace!

reply to post by TheFuzzMonster
That is what i am point out, read back a few and you will see that i can see the writhing on the wall, and if you do get to bible study and when 8 people have 8 Versions well there is no point for then it becomes mine says this not that, and that is why i have 14 Versions and if it does become web free access then i will have 15 versions.

Read about this atleast a year ago, they are rewriting it again, now there is no God, as in One God Creator, it is A as in Someone Creating etc...have to do with united Nation and the New World ... Back to sleep...

reply to post by MyMindIsMyOwn


I agree with most of what you say here, except the part of "make do as best we can"

How about just get rid of it altogether and go find god on your own ??

Get outside of your safety zone and stop settling for this watered down psychosocial babble that keeps everyone "interpreting"....

"Let us pray now for the guidance to find the truth in these passages"...

If you need to pray to "God" to find out what its really saying then it should be a CLEAR clue that it is nonsense.

reply to post by boondock-saint

Yes there are versions that have already removed the blood of Christ . He will be next but Islam has no restrictions in our government . A word here or there can take all meaning out of the Word and yet people buy these books . Jesus is under attack from every angle .

Words and entire books have been taken out and put in and changed around, all through history. I am confused why you think it's such a huge deal now?

Originally posted by silo13

Revelations 22:18 ...I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this book. 19 And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this book.

Just not something I'd want to go messing about with...

peace

Hey Silo. You can't really make the case that John was talking about the Bible when he wrote, "if anyone adds/takes away from this BOOK, etc., etc.,". Since the Bible didn't even exist for quite some time after John was very much gone, he therefore would have been referring to HIS little book that he was writing about the Rise and Fall of Emperor Nero or The End of the World or however you want to interpret Revelations.

Not trying to be rude, just pointing out that some Christian dogma requires one to completely bypass a few steps of logic.

Originally posted by bekod
Yes we well, they are coming out with a new bible. To me... well it will give the non believers more ammo to say "How can you believe the word" here is the link, i could not believe my eyes, what about you?
news.yahoo.com...

Well if you know anything about the bible you know that there are thousands of original manuscripts and no two have proven to be exactly alike, all have some sort of errors (be it spelling, spacing, or otherwise) or intentional changes. a couple passages of Luke do not even appear in the earliest manuscripts we have found, but start appearing in manuscripts that have a later date...meaning that the words were ADDED.

reply to post by dontreally


No, fundamentally, Hebrew cannot be adequately put into ANY language because Hebrew words have more than one connotation and many nuanced shades of meaning. To translate it is to limit the breadth of knowledge that each verse contains.

As another note, the text of the bible as was passed down through the ages didnt contain vowel signs, but only the letters(hebrew letters are onl consonants). This means that without the 'code', the vowel points, one cannot figure out which word or meaning is being suggested.

The Torah is a code. What people have today is a pitiful reflection of a reflection of what the Hebrew Bible truly is.

I do agree to a great deal with this and the nature of Hebrew (thought I doubt it was in Hebrew that GOD inscribed on the tablets at the top of mount Sinai) but I struggle with the idea that only Hebrew speakers can understand a message GOD is wanting to convey to the whole world. Isn't this an oversight on His part then?

reply to post by Lucius Driftwood


Not really. The Torah has many levels of meaning, even in addition to the conventional PaRDeS.

What CAN be translated is the simple, childlike meaning that only has signifiance towards children who cant appreciate deeper, more abstract ideas and philosophies. For a child, G-d allows the bible to translated into other languages. So people who have the bible in English etc can only get the most literal, childlike meaning. This a totally valid understanding and doesnt deviate from the Torah or G-ds intentions. However, childish meanings are for children, not adults. Hence why those who know the bible through its translations look at the bible with intellectual contempt. If, however they knew how unbelievably abstruse this wonderous work really is, meaning, if they learned Hebrew and studied it with a competent teacher, they would be amazed at its many unbelievable secrets. In addition to the vowels which can render any verse in a different manner (and deliberately so. Hence why it was only passed down with the letters) theres the cantillation marks (how to chant the Hebrew), the 'crowns', and at an even deeper, kabbalistic level, gematria, and other remarkable tools to derive greater meaning.

This text is the cornerstone of western culture for a very good reason. Only the elite among the western nations know that the Bible is much deeper than they give it credit for. Pubilically, they'll deride it as fairy tales or myth. But they know that this book which couldnt even be understood without the help of the Rabbis who first translated it into Greek (the septuagint), thus it is a code. The Vulgate is another horrible example of the bible being further taken out of context, as jerome relied mainly on the suptuagint and himself didnt have the complete knowledge of the Torah (not that he was interested in spreading this esoteric knowledge to begin with, since he and most of the other church fathrers were highly influenced by roman paganism, meaning these men were gnostics, despite the fact that many of them denounced the gnostics. Philo, and Josephus themselves may have had a bit of this strain in them).

But, the point ultimately is can the bible inspire? G-d wants to inspire and direct us, and that is what the bible has done in history. The Christian religion succeeded in spreading the fame and wonders of the Bible. Now what awaits the christian masses (mainly) is to learn this wonderous text in its original language, according to the code passed down by the Jewish sages. The bible in every language is still holy, just dont think you xcan criticize the bible on this ground if you dont even understand how that translation even came about. To any christian who discovers the reality of the situation, this should really inspire you to learn Hebrew, but a Tanakh and start learning. There are many christian 'cabalists' who learn the Torah and Tanakh in this manner, with their messianic spin.

reply to post by LibertyLover


exactly my point. it's too bad that certain words become so stigmatized, and then

regurgitated by the P.C. machine.

P.C. ('\ness) is actually one of the biggest problems we are facing today.

Originally posted by mysterioustranger
reply to post by bekod

 

Personally...the give-away was the part about "THEY are coming out with a NEW BIBLE..." Ummmmm?
How can any THEY arbitrarily come out with a NEW changing of GOD's words?

Because what they're changing isn't god's words.