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Originally posted by Rockdisjoint
How come no one gets pissed at Barry about this? Everyone keeps saying give him time, well how much time does that dumb POS need?
Oh, and before you call me a racist, don't because I'm black!
Originally posted by Dragoon01
reply to post by GovtFlu
No its not an atrocity because an atrocity implies intent and knowledge. If you dont understand that then you dont have the capacity to comment.
Clearly this was a case of mistaken identity. Get in a small plane and fly at 4000 ft and tell me the difference between kids and adults in treecover. I have done that and its not easy even with optical equipment.
How many of you on here who are ranting, raving, and foaming at the mouth about 'American killers' have actually spent one minute in a combat zone? My guess, not a damn one. This is like a skid row bum giving financial advice to Donald Trump, you don't know what your talking about. Because all you get are the edited screen shots the media wants you to see you lack a frame of reference to understand. These helicopter pilots have a reason to worry about being brought down by small arms fire, ever hear of Blackhawk down? How many of you geniuses have ever felt the fear of knowing that at any moment you can be killed by anyone anywhere.
The base is surrounded by mountains and is the frequent target of Taliban fighters, who shoot down on it from the rocky heights.
Nine boys collecting firewood to heat their homes in the eastern Afghanistan mountains were killed by NATO helicopter gunners who mistook them for insurgents, according to a statement on Wednesday by NATO, which apologized for the mistake.
The helicopters “returned fire at the assessed point of origin with indirect and aerial fire,” the NATO statement said.
“Regrettably there appears to have been an error in the handoff between identifying the location of the insurgents and the attack helicopters that carried out subsequent operations.”
Gen. David H. Petraeus, said the boys had been misidentified as the attackers of a NATO base earlier in the day.
Gen. David H. Petraeus, said the boys had been misidentified as the attackers of a NATO base earlier in the day.
If you choose to live on the coast of Florida then you must expect that nature will at some point send a storm your way. You cant control that storm and all you can do is get away or ride it out and hope for the best Sometimes people get killed as a result of those actions. There is nothing moral or immoral about that. For these families they could no more control the actions of the Taliban than you could.
Taleban in Texas for talks on gas pipeline Thursday, December 4, 1997 Published at 19:27 GMT
A senior delegation from the Taleban movement in Afghanistan is in the United States for talks with an international energy company that wants to construct a gas pipeline from Turkmenistan across Afghanistan to Pakistan. A spokesman for the company, Unocal, said the Taleban were expected to spend several days at the company's headquarters in Sugarland, Texas. Unocal says it has agreements both with Turkmenistan to sell its gas and with Pakistan to buy it.
As far as results of the war. I dont believe that we went to war because of some stupid pipeline like the "truthers" want to trot out. Sorry I dont buy that. We went there to remove the Taliban from power and establish a stable government that will not allow terrorist organizations to operate freely from within their boundries. Also to set up a position that counters Pakistan's tribal region.
If this had been a pre-planned operation that attacked the wrong target then you would have a point but it was adhoc. I think you should be more concerned and "outraged" by the drone attacks in Pakistan. Those attacks are done with little accuracy in terms of target and with little regard to proper rules of engagement.Those are doing more damage to our posiiton than Afghanistan.
Gen. David H. Petraeus, said the boys had been misidentified as the attackers of a NATO base earlier in the day.
All the evidence is there. We made an agreement with the Pakistanis and the Saudis that they would be the ones to oversee Afghanistan. That in and of itself was not the right thing to do. It is the people of Afghanistan that we owed a debt to. It is the people of Afghanistan who fought bravely against the Soviets. Any agreement that was made about what would be happening in Afghanistan should have been focused on the consent of the governed, meaning the people of Afghanistan, and not a politcal power play among Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and the United States.
At one point, once the Taliban were in power, they became very vulnerable because they had overstepped their bounds and their military had been defeated in the north and a swift reaction on the part of the anti-Taliban forces could have made the difference, could have eliminated them from power. President Clinton sent Bill Richardson, then our United Nations ambassador and Under Secretary of State Inderforth to northern Afghanistan and convinced the anti-Taliban forces not to go into action but to seek a cease-fire, and to seek a cease-fire with an embargo of weapons which would mean that they could talk out their differences. Well of course with an emissary from the President and people at that high level to go up to talk to these so called warlords in the northern part of Afghanistan, naturally they acquiesced. And, of course, immediately the resupply of weapons began to the Taliban and the cease-fire was immediately violated as soon as the Taliban were replenished with their weapons supply by Saudi Arabia and Pakistan. Dealing with gangsters and dictators and the likes of the Taliban became the order of the day for 8 years under President Clinton.
For anybody who wants to know who is to blame for 9-11 you can thank those State Department elitists who decided that the Taliban was better than King Zahir Shah and undercut every effort to bring a moderate government to Afghanistan. They are the ones, whether they were in Pakistan or whether they were in Turkmenistan or whether they were in various countries of the world where meetings were taking place, who undercut those efforts of the Taliban's enemies, or let us say those people who would just offer an alternative to the Taliban. Every time the State Department interceded.
We went there to remove the Taliban from power and establish a stable government that will not allow terrorist organizations to operate freely from within their boundries. Also to set up a position that counters Pakistan's tribal region.
Agan you are dragging the greater overall situation into this inccident. You are not capable of discussing this without addressing the overall war. Fine, I will address the overall points that you have brought up after this. Tell me at what point "earlier in the day" was? You cant because there were no specifics mentions. So was "earlier in the day" 20 minutes before the inccident or two hours? This was not a planned strike. This was a CAS call for fire mission. At least every indication that has been given points to that being the case. Also again the aircrew have not been identified. We still do not know if language was a factor in passing off the target information to the aircrew. Thats the whole point. You dont have all of the facts but you are so eager to jump in the US Armys junk about the war in general that you cant wait to execute these pilots. If more information comes to light and it points to serious negligence on the part of the aircrew then yes that will play a part in their court marshall.
This was not a planned strike. This was a CAS call for fire mission. At least every indication that has been given points to that being the case.
Also again the aircrew have not been identified. We still do not know if language was a factor in passing off the target information to the aircrew. Thats the whole point. You dont have all of the facts but you are so eager to jump in the US Armys junk about the war in general that you cant wait to execute these pilots.
Word Games: Most US Media Hide an American Atrocity in Afghanistan Behind 'NATO' and Fudge the Victims' Ages - The people of Afghanistan know who was flying the two helicopter gunships that brutally hunted down and slaughtered, one by one, nine boys apparently as young as seven years old, as they gathered firewood on a hillside March 1. In angry demonstrations after the incident, they were shouting “Death to America.”
The war over Afghan civilian casualties - On the evening of March 1, U.S. helicopter gunships opened fire on a group of 10 Afghan boys gathering firewood in eastern Kunar province, killing all but one. A week after the incident, top U.S. and NATO commander in Afghanistan General David Petraeus apologized for the incident and promised to review tactical directives to ensure civilian casualties are minimized.
As far as the pipeline goes are you telling me that we were tricked into a war so that a company could build a pipeline across a third world dung heap? So do you work for a corporation? Because I do and I can assure you that no corporation is going to sign off on that plan. In any shape form or fashion. There is no case there. The ROI is unknown and the risk is somewhere near pluto.
Unocal was one of the key players in the CentGas consortium, an attempt to build the Trans-Afghanistan Pipeline to run from the Caspian area, through Afghanistan and probably Pakistan, to the Indian Ocean. One of the consultants to Unocal at that time was Zalmay Khalilzad, former US ambassador to Afghanistan, Iraq, and the United Nations. In the 1980s, CIA chief Bill Casey had revived the agency's practice of gaining intelligence from traveling businessmen. Marty Miller, one of Unocal's top executives, conducted negotiations in several Central Asian countries from 1995, and voluntarily provided information gained on these trips to the CIA's Houston station. In 1996, Unocal opened an office in Kandahar, Afghanistan
Unocal seems to have had a deeper role. Intelligence "whistleblower" Julie Sirrs reported that anti-Taliban leader Ahmad Shah Massoud told her he had "proof that Unocal had provided money that helped the Taliban take Kabul in 1996". And French journalist Richard Labeviere said, referring to the later 1990s, "The CIA and Unocal's security forces ... provided military weapons and instructors to several Taleban militia's ." The Taleban and Unocal were in negotiations in Texas to discuss arrangements for the gas pipeline from Turkmenistan to Pakistan in 1997 and a deal was struck but later failed.
TAPI's 1,680-kilometer route (given as 1,735 kilometers by some sources) originates in southern Turkmenistan, winds south through Afghanistan's Herat Province, and then arcs southeast until it reaches Kandahar Province. Kandahar was the spiritual capital for the Taliban movement in Afghanistan, and the city and its surrounding areas remain the heart of the Taliban insurgency against government and foreign forces. With construction slated to begin in 2012, these sections of the pipeline are the main areas of concern when it comes to security.
Originally posted by mr-lizard
The American military really annoy me. They're badly trained, immature and seem to consist of xenophobic psycho's.
If they aren't murdering innocents or killing Brits with friendly fire incidents, then they're wholly incompetent in finding their true enemies.
No wonder America is one of the most disliked countries in the world.